OME 895e and 6004 Rear Lift - Bouncy Ride

[ac1617]

Hey gents,

So it's been a few months since installing OME 895E's with OME 6004 shocks and I can't stand the ride anymore. It's very bouncy and harsh in the rear and there has been another thread back in 2011 about this very issue:
https://www.toyota-4runner.org/4th-gen-t4rs/92543-toytec-superflex-coils-ome-895s.html

There is conflicting opinions in that thread about what causes this bouncy/harsh ride. Yes the 895/895e's spring rate is abour 40% stiffer that may be causing this, but another user claims it was the shocks.

Anyone else have opinions on the matter? I'm debating either swapping out the coils for springs with closer to stock spring rates, replacing the shocks with 5100, or both.


Thanks in advance!

 

[damthemainstream]

Did you change up the rear sway bar end links at all? 2nd gen links are an easy swap that add some extra length. Stock ones can be too short after a lift and cause the sway bar to bind, leading to a harsh ride.

 

[doofenshmirtz]

Hey gents,

So it's been a few months since installing OME 895E's with OME 6004 shocks and I can't stand the ride anymore. It's very bouncy and harsh in the rear and there has been another thread back in 2011 about this very issue:
Toytec Superflex coils or OME 895's?

There is conflicting opinions in that thread about what causes this bouncy/harsh ride. Yes the 895/895e's spring rate is abour 40% stiffer that may be causing this, but another user claims it was the shocks.

Anyone else have opinions on the matter? I'm debating either swapping out the coils for springs with closer to stock spring rates, replacing the shocks with 5100, or both.


Thanks in advance!

I purchased the 60004 and 895s and have

- changed the sway bar end links for 2nd gens
- run without sway bars
- done the eimkeith panhard correction kit
- changed over the coils to Dobinson's variable rate springs
- swapped out the upper and lower rear links to reszfab duroflex joint arms

...And the rear ride is STILL slightly too stiff when the rear is unloaded - loaded isn't too bad. The only rear suspension item remaining from my initial mod is the OME 60004 shocks.

 

[ac1617]

I purchased the 60004 and 895s and have

- changed the sway bar end links for 2nd gens
- run without sway bars
- done the eimkeith panhard correction kit
- changed over the coils to Dobinson's variable rate springs
- swapped out the upper and lower rear links to reszfab duroflex joint arms

...And the rear ride is STILL slightly too stiff when the rear is unloaded - loaded isn't too bad. The only rear suspension item remaining from my initial mod is the OME 60004 shocks.

Thanks for the info, I found another thread where one user mentioned swapping just the springs to superflex coils and keeping the 60004 shocks and it was still too stiff:
Cant live with OME suspension anymore - Toyota 120 Platforms Forum
So it sounds like it is indeed the shocks being too over dampened

 

[hinmo24t]

ome 895e on billy 5100, no complaints. i carry fullsize spare and maybe 50lbs of tools in hatch. love it

 

[doofenshmirtz]

My issue has always been that my 4runner is either empty or max payload, and I don't want massive squatting at max payload - so I've stuck with my too stiff 60004s thus far.

I'm guessing the easiest option for me would be a softer shock and an airbag for use when fully loaded. I've considered the extended travel Dobinson's rear shock (stock load rated) and getting the rear brake lines and bump stops extended. That would raise the ride height another inch and theoretically raise the max payload height the same amount - just a heavier rake when empty. Adjustable shocks are not in the picture due to cost and maintenance.

 

[That_Titanium_4RNR]

My issue has always been that my 4runner is either empty or max payload, and I don't want massive squatting at max payload - so I've stuck with my too stiff 60004s thus far.

I'm guessing the easiest option for me would be a softer shock and an airbag for use when fully loaded. I've considered the extended travel Dobinson's rear shock (stock load rated) and getting the rear brake lines and bump stops extended. That would raise the ride height another inch and theoretically raise the max payload height the same amount - just a heavier rake when empty. Adjustable shocks are not in the picture due to cost and maintenance.

Definitely sounds like airbags are in your future haha

 

[phatcheeks]

get some Eibach pro truck shocks

 

[doofenshmirtz]

Definitely sounds like airbags are in your future haha

That seems logical. It wouldn't "require" an onboard compressor, but it makes sense. Having bags would be another reason beyond just tires to run onboard air.

At the same time, I've already got extended length variable rate coils, so I'm literally shocks, extended brake lines, and dropped bump stops away from running long(er) travel in the rear.

My rear lower and upper control arms are also slightly extended length already, and my panhard angle correction kit still has another inch of adjustment available. I've already done front brakes before, so I've got unopened brake fluid for doing rear brake lines. Running longer travel is already within the tolerances of all my existing rear suspension mods.

It would cost basically the same money to do either setup, and I've researched enough to know I've got enough experience to install either one in my garage with tools I already have. It'll be a while before I get to it either way. Still have long tubes to install (gotta receive them first, lol), and money to save before I do anything..

 

[techno]

There is conflicting opinions in that thread about what causes this bouncy/harsh ride. Yes the 895/895e's spring rate is abour 40% stiffer that may be causing this, but another user claims it was the shocks.

In your case, the harsh ride is 100% from the spring, NOT the shock. The 895E was designed for the FJ Cruiser, (loaded up with no rake), not the 4Runner and although it's not uncommon to see 4runners with them, lots of guys prefer the stiffer ride.
The 895E has the same free length as the factory coil spring, but with a much thicker wire. That's how it achieves 'lift'. It's much harder to compress and therefor most suited to vehicles carrying a constant heavy load, like a rear cargo drawer with tools and a fridge etc.

 

[ac1617]

In your case, the harsh ride is 100% from the spring, NOT the shock. The 895E was designed for the FJ Cruiser, (loaded up with no rake), not the 4Runner and although it's not uncommon to see 4runners with them, lots of guys prefer the stiffer ride.
The 895E has the same free length as the factory coil spring, but with a much thicker wire. That's how it achieves 'lift'. It's much harder to compress and therefor most suited to vehicles carrying a constant heavy load, like a rear cargo drawer with tools and a fridge etc.

That was my initial thought as well but based on the two threads I linked it seems like it's the fault of both the shock and spring, with the shock contributing more to the issue. Here's what I gathered:
1. Users report keeping the 60004 shock and swapping to Toytec Superflex coils or as [MENTION=212541]doofenshmirtz[/MENTION] did, Dobinson variable rate coils and still complain of a stiff/harsh ride. Marginal improvement.
2. Users keep their 895e/895/896 springs (same 44% higher spring rate just different lengths) and swap out their 60004 shocks to either Icon, OW 2.5, or Bilstein 5100s and report of a significant improvement in ride quality.


I think it makes sense given what I feel: When going over speed bumps, the rear does articulate and compresses when hitting the bump. However, once you're over the bump and the rear comes down to compress the spring, it gets really harsh quickly as if you're hitting a bump stop mid compression. Feels like the shock is over dampening.

I'm going to replace the shocks first and see if that smooths out the ride enough. If not, I'll go ahead and replace the springs as well.

 

[doofenshmirtz]

In your case, the harsh ride is 100% from the spring, NOT the shock. The 895E was designed for the FJ Cruiser, (loaded up with no rake), not the 4Runner and although it's not uncommon to see 4runners with them, lots of guys prefer the stiffer ride.
The 895E has the same free length as the factory coil spring, but with a much thicker wire. That's how it achieves 'lift'. It's much harder to compress and therefor most suited to vehicles carrying a constant heavy load, like a rear cargo drawer with tools and a fridge etc.

I have to disagree. It's at most only half the problem.

The 60004 shock is recommended for heavy loads over 330lbs. From a company that is known to cater to vehicles with constant load in hard terrain - It's the second stiffest fitment they offer for this vehicle.. It is noted as having firmer valving in OMEs application guide at that. The 895 and 895E are tuned to run with the 60004. By extension, the 60004 shock is probably tuned to be 40% stiffer than the factory shock, just like the coils.

In my experience, an empty 4runner without armor should not be running that shock or spring unless you WANT a firm ride. If you don't KNOW if you want a firm ride, you likely DON'T.

If you have the 895/895E and 60004 and aren't happy, you're likely in a group of people for whom changing only the shock or only the spring is only going to get you halfway happy. You can try all the other tricks like running no sway bars, and changing bushings or links, but you'll never get around an over-damped shock.

That's just my 2 cents, and/but there's a reason there's links all over to people arguing both sides of this. I'm just a dude - no expert.

 

[adkfinn]

I replaced the 895e's and shocks (I can't recall the brand, might've been stock even) that were on my truck when I purchased it with a set of variable rate Dobinson's coils (675's, not the heaviest one) and their shocks and I find the ride is markedly improved. My typical driving is empty in back week days and then loaded to the gills inside at least one weekend a month when camping/travelling. I think my setup does both pretty well, the rear does squat a bit when loaded, but I don't think I have more than 400lbs of gear typically and I run a stock bumper/no drawers/etc. It sits loaded pretty even without noticeable reverse rake. I also run Wheelers Super Bumps front and rear and bigger hits feel much softer offroad, fwiw.

 

[duffdog]

well...

I have 899's in the rear of my 05 and love it. I used to have th 895e but they started to sag and were too soft and could not handle jumping the truck at all. My truck has around 1000lbs constant in the rear at all times with the custom rear bumper, frame reinforcement, 200lbs of tools, rear winch, fridge and other items adding up to simply be too much weight for many of the spring options out there.

I also found throughout my issues with "bounciness" that none of the truck shocks I could buy would last more than 1 wheeling trip and every rear shock from every manufacturer would simply get destroyed and I would have to replace them. Toytec, bilstein, fox, ome etc all simply werent strong enough in the 2.0 size. I ended up getting the pin to loop adapters from pro-comp and installing super heavy duty 2.5 rear shocks. that definitely helped a lot but I still have the issue of bounciness in the back when I go over jumps, curbs or rocks at high speeds. I am in the process of devising a way to install an auxilliary pushrod suspension system to eliminate the bouncing in the rear. Until then, I might have one or two extra oscillations when I land the truck but its way better than the sloppy springs where the back would bounce 4 or 5 times before settling.

 

[doofenshmirtz]

well...

I have 899's in the rear of my 05 and love it. I used to have th 895e but they started to sag and were too soft and could not handle jumping the truck at all. My truck has around 1000lbs constant in the rear at all times with the custom rear bumper, frame reinforcement, 200lbs of tools, rear winch, fridge and other items adding up to simply be too much weight for many of the spring options out there.

I also found throughout my issues with "bounciness" that none of the truck shocks I could buy would last more than 1 wheeling trip and every rear shock from every manufacturer would simply get destroyed and I would have to replace them. Toytec, bilstein, fox, ome etc all simply werent strong enough in the 2.0 size. I ended up getting the pin to loop adapters from pro-comp and installing super heavy duty 2.5 rear shocks. that definitely helped a lot but I still have the issue of bounciness in the back when I go over jumps, curbs or rocks at high speeds. I am in the process of devising a way to install an auxilliary pushrod suspension system to eliminate the bouncing in the rear. Until then, I might have one or two extra oscillations when I land the truck but its way better than the sloppy springs where the back would bounce 4 or 5 times before settling.

^^^ This is the kind of guy that needs firmer shocks and coils. ^^^

I suspect OP is riding stock weight and empty. No need for the extra firmness. When you've got 60004s and 895s and stock everything else, you aren't actually bouncing and settling, you're just feeling every abnormality in the road. Might as well be riding static.

 

[ac1617]

^^^ This is the kind of guy that needs firmer shocks and coils. ^^^

I suspect OP is riding stock weight and empty. No need for the extra firmness. When you've got 60004s and 895s and stock everything else, you aren't actually bouncing and settling, you're just feeling every abnormality in the road. Might as well be riding static.

Yup I'm running stock weight, occasionally loaded trunk for trips but it's never over 150 pounds of gear. I think you hit the nail on the head, it feels like I'm driving around with a static rear end. Hopefully replacing the shocks will make things more bearable, otherwise ordering superflex coils will make this whole project very expensive (since I'm in Canada and the dollar is terrible).

 

[doofenshmirtz]

Yup I'm running stock weight, occasionally loaded trunk for trips but it's never over 150 pounds of gear. I think you hit the nail on the head, it feels like I'm driving around with a static rear end. Hopefully replacing the shocks will make things more bearable, otherwise ordering superflex coils will make this whole project very expensive (since I'm in Canada and the dollar is terrible).

Dobinson's is based in AUS, so there may be another option than going thru US$. Dunno how it all works though. It may go AUS > US > CAN.

 

[techno]

I have to disagree. It's at most only half the problem.
.....
That's just my 2 cents, and/but there's a reason there's links all over to people arguing both sides of this. I'm just a dude - no expert.

Hey, I'm not a career suspension expert either, but have run several iterations of OME suspension on several vehicles. On my 3rd gen I had the 890 coils and the standard ome shocks (can't remembers the number) and it was too stiff for me. I swapped to the comfort shocks and it made almost no difference. Switch to the 906 coils with the same shock and that did the trick. Much better.