Opinions on Brakes: Calipers/Rotors/Pads

[MikeInNH]

Up here in snow country, I've replaced the front calipers at least 3 times and the rear calipers at least twice.

Living in NH....I just recently replaced the rear calipers for the first time on my 05 4runner with 240k miles. The fronts I've replaced several times.

I'm amazed that you're experiencing problems with the rear calipers because they are a completely different setup then the front. The single piston rear caliper should easily last over 200k miles. No 4runner owner I know of has had problems with the rear caliper.

 

[M1911]

Living in NH....I just recently replaced the rear calipers for the first time on my 05 4runner with 240k miles. The fronts I've replaced several times.

I'm amazed that you're experiencing problems with the rear calipers because they are a completely different setup then the front. The single piston rear caliper should easily last over 200k miles. No 4runner owner I know of has had problems with the rear caliper.

There's plenty here on the forum that have had to replace the rear calipers.

 

[Dylan]

Thanks for all the replies. I may end up keeping the stock brake size. It doesn't sound like there's much advantage to me upgrading the brake size, especially since I'm not planning to be towing much.

I was wondering if this thread would generate replies from members about what products NOT to buy. I'm glad I didn't see a whole lot about that. It seems like a few people run Napa calipers. I'll check them out, but I wonder how they really compare to the Oreilly equivalent from a re-manufactured standpoint, since the guts of the parts should be the same.

 

[MikeInNH]

There's plenty here on the forum that have had to replace the rear calipers.

Really? Because I haven't seen one. I've had a couple discussions with other threads here...and one member who works at a Toyota dealership has said that rear caliper replacements are rare.

 

[M1911]

Really? Because I haven't seen one. I've had a couple discussions with other threads here...and one member who works at a Toyota dealership has said that rear caliper replacements are rare.

There have been a number of threads here on the forum about frozen calipers and others have also experienced frozen rear calipers. Fronts are more common but rears also freeze:

http://www.toyota-4runner.org/4th-g...how-many-others-had-problem-2.html#post478133
http://www.toyota-4runner.org/4th-g...how-many-others-had-problem-3.html#post513611
http://www.toyota-4runner.org/4th-g...how-many-others-had-problem-6.html#post649836
http://www.toyota-4runner.org/4th-g...how-many-others-had-problem-7.html#post789053

So, have I convinced you or do I need to find more examples?

 

[MikeInNH]

I'm NOT doubting you. I just never saw them. Fine you showed me examples. But as I said..I'm surprised at it. Toyota needs to get their act together. Calipers should NOT be needing replacing with under 150k or even 200k miles. The front calipers on my 4runner last about 80k miles. I can count on one hand the number of calipers I've replaced on all my previous vehicles since I bought my first vehicle back in 73. Lived in the North East my whole life. I never replaced the calipers on my 98 Pathfinder. I gave it to my daughter in 05 when I bought my 4runner. She sold it to her ex boyfriend just a couple of years ago with OVER 500K miles with the original calipers. And they were working fine.

 

[C C]

I'm NOT doubting you. I just never saw them. Fine you showed me examples. But as I said..I'm surprised at it. Toyota needs to get their act together. Calipers should NOT be needing replacing with under 150k or even 200k miles. The front calipers on my 4runner last about 80k miles. I can count on one hand the number of calipers I've replaced on all my previous vehicles since I bought my first vehicle back in 73. Lived in the North East my whole life. I never replaced the calipers on my 98 Pathfinder. I gave it to my daughter in 05 when I bought my 4runner. She sold it to her ex boyfriend just a couple of years ago with OVER 500K miles with the original calipers. And they were working fine.

Question is, how many other things did you replace with that Pathfinder that you haven't on the runner? :jump:

 

[MikeInNH]

Question is, how many other things did you replace with that Pathfinder that you haven't on the runner?

The Pathfinder was a very very reliable vehicle. Nothing real major ever needed repairing on that vehicle. Tranny and engine were original.

Had to replace the factory radio. Came with the Bose system. The radio was made by Clarion. The rear suspension bushings had to be replaced at 90k miles. That was a royal pain to replace. That vehicle was also a manual...and had to replace the clutch assembly at 80k because of a faulty throw-out bearing. Replaced clutch again at 200k miles. And every 100k miles I replaced the timing belt.

That was about it. The rest was just normal maintenance (tires, battery, brakes, oil changes...etc etc).

 

[M1911]

But as I said..I'm surprised at it. Toyota needs to get their act together. Calipers should NOT be needing replacing with under 150k or even 200k miles.

I agree completely. I got my license in 1976 and I don't ever remember replacing a brake caliper. I ran my '87 Integra from new to 135k miles and never changed a caliper. I replaced a ton of parts on my '00 GTI, but the calipers never froze.

I've never heard of a vehicle that eats calipers like Cheetos the way my 4Runner does.

 

[zimdba]

Thanks for all the replies. I may end up keeping the stock brake size. It doesn't sound like there's much advantage to me upgrading the brake size, especially since I'm not planning to be towing much.

....or driving in mountains. Or driving like [MENTION=26817]SkylineGTRracer[/MENTION] . ..

 

[Dylan]

....or driving in mountains. Or driving like [MENTION=26817]SkylineGTRracer[/MENTION] . ..

That's what runaway truck ramps are for, right? Honestly, how much more braking power will it offer? Anyone provide a percentage or example? If cost isn't much more I'd like to go with bigger brakes...because, why not?

 

[zimdba]

That's what runaway truck ramps are for, right? Honestly, how much more braking power will it offer? Anyone provide a percentage or example? If cost isn't much more I'd like to go with bigger brakes...because, why not?

LOL - not everywhere you need to stop has runaway truck ramps.

Someone who's measured both sizes of brake pads can probably compute the percentage increase in surface area. I'll take a stab at it being around 10% or so. Is that worth the cost? If you are replacing calipers & rotors anyway I'd go ahead and get the bigger ones. If not, then you probably wouldn't benefit that much unless you drive aggressively like I do.

 

[M1911]

Perhaps the larger rotors will last longer. The next time I need to replace pads and rotors, I'll probably change to the larger size.

 

[Dylan]

LOL - not everywhere you need to stop has runaway truck ramps.

Someone who's measured both sizes of brake pads can probably compute the percentage increase in surface area. I'll take a stab at it being around 10% or so. Is that worth the cost? If you are replacing calipers & rotors anyway I'd go ahead and get the bigger ones. If not, then you probably wouldn't benefit that much unless you drive aggressively like I do.

Good point, I do drive fairly aggressively. And I am planning to upgrade front calipers and rotors as it is, so cost/benefit should be a no brainer. I was under the impression both size calipers use the same pads though?

 

[RunnerAK]

Good point, I do drive fairly aggressively. And I am planning to upgrade front calipers and rotors as it is, so cost/benefit should be a no brainer. I was under the impression both size calipers use the same pads though?

Both calipers do use the exact same pads, the calipers are actually identical except for the mounts. The ones for the larger rotors (13WH) have slightly longer mounting points than the ones for the smaller rotors (13WG). The difference between the rotor diameters is 13.3" vs. 12.5", so the difference in the caliper mounting point is less than half of an inch. Like I said before, the real benefit is a larger heat sink (rotor), not any practical stopping power.

 

[M1911]

Both calipers do use the exact same pads, the calipers are actually identical except for the mounts. The ones for the larger rotors (13WH) have slightly longer mounting points than the ones for the smaller rotors (13WG). The difference between the rotor diameters is 13.3" vs. 12.5", so the difference in the caliper mounting point is less than half of an inch. Like I said before, the real benefit is a larger heat sink (rotor), not any practical stopping power.

I believe that the pad and caliper are farther from the hub. The braking force is a function of the lever arm -- the farther from the hub, the greater the lever arm. So even though the pad may be the same, placing it farther from the hub should improve braking performance.

 

[zimdba]

Interesting! I learned something today. I was thinking about it and the only 4th gen Runner I've ever driven or worked on was mine. So I just assumed the larger rotor used a bigger pad.

 

[RunnerAK]

I believe that the pad and caliper are farther from the hub. The braking force is a function of the lever arm -- the farther from the hub, the greater the lever arm. So even though the pad may be the same, placing it farther from the hub should improve braking performance.

This is true, I mentioned it back on the first page. I definitely agree that the larger brakes should perform better, I'm just saying that even the smaller brakes are overkill for 99% of the driving most people do.

That sort of overengineering is one of the awesome things about these trucks. Even the first gen Tundras, which have a higher GVWR than the 4Runners, only use the 13WG calipers and 12.5" rotors (same "small" setup as the 4Runner). The 13.3" brake setup is getting into 3/4 ton truck brake-size territory!

 

[M1911]

This is true, I mentioned it back on the first page. I definitely agree that the larger brakes should perform better, I'm just saying that even the smaller brakes are overkill for 99% of the driving most people do.

That sort of overengineering is one of the awesome things about these trucks. Even the first gen Tundras, which have a higher GVWR than the 4Runners, only use the 13WG calipers and 12.5" rotors (same "small" setup as the 4Runner). The 13.3" brake setup is getting into 3/4 ton truck brake-size territory!

If my brakes lasted more than 30k miles, I might agree with you on them being over-engineered. But they don't and they're not. The disks warp easily, the pads wear out quickly and then we have the whole frozen calipers business. Go over to the ih8mud forum and you'll see a lot of folks who feel that the Land Cruiser brakes are woefully bad.