Overheat/head gasket

[4runnerWiniarski23]

Hi guys,

I know i previously posted about an overheating event, back story being, drove a few miles, engine overheated and was leaking coolant from water pump. Had the truck towed home.

I started with a compression test on each cylinder and found #6 cylinder had very little to no compression. I believed the head gasket had failed. My truck also did not start.

After further removing everything I found my timing belt had been burned up/ shredded pretty bad. I checked the water pump pulley and found it to be very stiff. My timing belt idler pulley( pulley directly under upper coolant pipe) had the bearing melted in areas, leads me to believe the water pump must have not been turning at all causing a lot of friction/heat. Head gasket failure, and possible head warp.

I plan on replacing/repairing a lot of items listed below>
-timing belt
-water pump
-all associated pulleys/tensioners
-All gaskets, intake/exhaust
-head gasket
-intake gaskets

The biggest question I have is for the heads, i have them removed and plan on examining them further, FSM says .0039'' maximum allowance. I have to get the heads on a flatter surface with a good straight edge to check but I am leaning towards them being warped or cracked, most likely between the cylinders.

Whats the best choice for head replacement? machine shop and rebuild? I found heads unassembled online see link below. Has anyone used them before?
Unassembled meaning camshafts not installed, installing them is simple enough right? Make sure the timing marks/dots align, use proper tightening procedure and apply plenty of oil. Anything i am missing here?

This is my first step at doing doing a project this deep, if it wasnt the 5vz-fe engine i may not have went ahead and did this.

Toyota 5VZ 3.4 Cylinder Head Tacoma Tundra T-100 4Runner Land Cruiser
– Quantico Cylinder Heads

 

[MaineRunna]

You might want to try just putting a timing belt kit on it and see what happens. These are pretty tough engines, you might not have blown head gaskets. You have no compression and it won't start because it's out of time.

 

[4runnerWiniarski23]

You might want to try just putting a timing belt kit on it and see what happens. These are pretty tough engines, you might not have blown head gaskets. You have no compression and it won't start because it's out of time.

I believe your right but I've torn down everything to be safe, I may have gotten away with it.

 

[Austin C]

Its never a bad idea to get down to business and check out what’s going on in there. Like marine said, start with the timing belt and see what happens, if nothing you can check t off the list. And yes it will not start if you are out of time or are skipping time, computer says it’s a no go! Best of luck on your decision, hope it’s the right one!

 

[MaineRunna]

I went through the same thing on a customer's Highlander 3.3L. He overheated it and it wouldn't turn over so we thought it must have a cylinder full of coolant and was hydro-locked. Took it apart and found a seized up water pump with a shredded timing belt which had jammed the engine. Where the 3.3 is an interference engine (the 3.4 is not) I figured at the very least the valves were bent and the head gaskets were still most likely blown. I ended up finding no evidence that the gaskets were blown or that valves had contacted the pistons, so I probably could have just put a timing belt on it and given my customer a $700 bill instead of a $3000 bill. Since you already have it apart do it up and make sure you have the heads crack checked, valves done (if needed) and most importantly, resurfaced at a reputable automotive machine shop.

 

[4runnerWiniarski23]

I went through the same thing on a customer's Highlander 3.3L. He overheated it and it wouldn't turn over so we thought it must have a cylinder full of coolant and was hydro-locked. Took it apart and found a seized up water pump with a shredded timing belt which had jammed the engine. Where the 3.3 is an interference engine (the 3.4 is not) I figured at the very least the valves were bent and the head gaskets were still most likely blown. I ended up finding no evidence that the gaskets were blown or that valves had contacted the pistons, so I probably could have just put a timing belt on it and given my customer a $700 bill instead of a $3000 bill. Since you already have it apart do it up and make sure you have the heads crack checked, valves done (if needed) and most importantly, resurfaced at a reputable automotive machine shop.

This is my plan, I have a few local places i will be reaching out to tomorrow. Can you give me an idea of prices per head? Lets say clean/check and then machine/rebuild if necessary. $500 a side?

 

[MaineRunna]

Should be less than $500 for the pair. Buy a Fel-Pro head set, use new head bolts, replace the cam end plugs in the back of the heads and buy an Aisin timing belt kit off Amazon. (cheap+OEM parts)

 

[3bears]

A machine shop will tell you if the heads are toast. I would not go fel-pro

 

[MaineRunna]

As a self employed auto mechanic with 35 years experience and about 2-500 head gasket jobs under my belt I will say that there are a lot of gasket makers out there and some are better than others, but Fel-Pro (mfd by Federal Mogul) is pretty reputable and decent quality. Never had a job come back because of a defective, inferior, or faulty Fel-Pro gasket. There is always OEM, though that would be a poor choice if you were working on a Subaru. I do about 5-10 of those a year and Fel-Pro's head gasket is a big improvement over the OE single layer design. A Beck Arnley or Victor Reinz would be the exact same gasket that Fuji Industries used that fails in every single Subaru from the late 1990's to 2011 though this is not a problem on Toyotas. Unless your 4runner is seriously high mileage, was abused or never maintained, or you completely cooked it the heads should be rebuildable. It's not like the old days anymore when a head with 75k miles on it would need a full valve job.

 

[habanero]

I went with Yotashop's head gasket set w/mls gaskets KIT-1020B. Came with all sorts of gaskets, o-rings, seals, vc half-moons and plugs, new head bolts, little touches like the pcv grommet and the oil cap gasket. They also have kits with composite gaskets for less monies.

 

[APhelps]

As a self employed auto mechanic with 35 years experience and about 2-500 head gasket jobs under my belt I will say that there are a lot of gasket makers out there and some are better than others, but Fel-Pro (mfd by Federal Mogul) is pretty reputable and decent quality. Never had a job come back because of a defective, inferior, or faulty Fel-Pro gasket. There is always OEM, though that would be a poor choice if you were working on a Subaru. I do about 5-10 of those a year and Fel-Pro's head gasket is a big improvement over the OE single layer design. A Beck Arnley or Victor Reinz would be the exact same gasket that Fuji Industries used that fails in every single Subaru from the late 1990's to 2011 though this is not a problem on Toyotas. Unless your 4runner is seriously high mileage, was abused or never maintained, or you completely cooked it the heads should be rebuildable. It's not like the old days anymore when a head with 75k miles on it would need a full valve job.

I've noticed this forum tends to be obsessed with OEM parts. I've found it odd that so many people have had such issues with NAPA or etc. parts, I really wonder if people are installing them correctly. I've used a various collection of different parts on Toyotas over the years and really haven't had a single issue with anything.

 

[DaMonkey]

I've noticed this forum tends to be obsessed with OEM parts. I've found it odd that so many people have had such issues with NAPA or etc. parts, I really wonder if people are installing them correctly. I've used a various collection of different parts on Toyotas over the years and really haven't had a single issue with anything.

I’m not sure you are even allowed to talk like that in here. Most guys got a raging boemer.

In general I agree with you entirely. However there’s a load of evidence of busted suspension parts, mostly lower ball joints. I believe there’s a bunch of crap on eBay and even amazon by off brand overseas manufacturers that just slapped together tooling and never really tested or care. These show up from sellers as counterfeit under bigger aftermarket brands - most people want to minimize repair costs and take for granted that if it’s for sale, it’s good to go. Aftermarket is big business and shady AF. Champion radiators gets a bad rap bc there are so many counterfeits that suck. I’d use Felpro head gaskets, but not from eBay.

But in here don’t ever ever admit to anything but OEM lol.

 

[gamefreakgc]

I’m not sure you are even allowed to talk like that in here. Most guys got a raging boemer.

In general I agree with you entirely. However there’s a load of evidence of busted suspension parts, mostly lower ball joints. I believe there’s a bunch of crap on eBay and even amazon by off brand overseas manufacturers that just slapped together tooling and never really tested or care. These show up from sellers as counterfeit under bigger aftermarket brands - most people want to minimize repair costs and take for granted that if it’s for sale, it’s good to go. Aftermarket is big business and shady AF. Champion radiators gets a bad rap bc there are so many counterfeits that suck. I’d use Felpro head gaskets, but not from eBay.

But in here don’t ever ever admit to anything but OEM lol.

I've got loads of aftermarkets parts on my 4Runner, including gaskets. My entire JDM engine (except for head gaskets) was put together with non-OEM gaskets. Timing belt and water pump are OEM though, I hope to not ever change it again.

Anyway to the OP, have you considered the cost of an entire engine? Assuming you have or can borrow the equipment. Of course though, if your heads are good with no warping or cracks then it definitely would be cheaper to keep them and put it all back together.

 

[3bears]

As a self employed auto mechanic with 35 years experience and about 2-500 head gasket jobs under my belt I will say that there are a lot of gasket makers out there and some are better than others, but Fel-Pro (mfd by Federal Mogul) is pretty reputable and decent quality. Never had a job come back because of a defective, inferior, or faulty Fel-Pro gasket. There is always OEM, though that would be a poor choice if you were working on a Subaru. I do about 5-10 of those a year and Fel-Pro's head gasket is a big improvement over the OE single layer design. A Beck Arnley or Victor Reinz would be the exact same gasket that Fuji Industries used that fails in every single Subaru from the late 1990's to 2011 though this is not a problem on Toyotas. Unless your 4runner is seriously high mileage, was abused or never maintained, or you completely cooked it the heads should be rebuildable. It's not like the old days anymore when a head with 75k miles on it would need a full valve job.

I too have many years of twisting wrenches, like about 50, but not as a professional since the 70's. I guess IM showing my age, because back then if you got a fel pro set for an import, it came with whatever gasket supplier they could find, leave it in an oringal package and then stick it in a felpro box

but times change and glad to hear that felpro is making their own head gaskets. I do use felpro for other things on this 4 runner and others vehicles, just never wanted to trust their internal gaskets....until the good reviews from you and others.

 

[DaMonkey]

I've got loads of aftermarkets parts on my 4Runner, including gaskets. My entire JDM engine (except for head gaskets) was put together with non-OEM gaskets. Timing belt and water pump are OEM though, I hope to not ever change it again...

That's great. There are good aftermarket parts available, and I use them all the time too. My only point was that eBay is full of junk counterfeits posing as reputable aftermarket brands, so I am cautious about where to buy.

My point was: I think that reputable seller and reputable manufacturer is more important than insisting on OEM. And the OEM police here can be overbearing.

 

[gamefreakgc]

That's great. There are good aftermarket parts available, and I use them all the time too. My only point was that eBay is full of junk counterfeits posing as reputable aftermarket brands, so I am cautious about where to buy.

My point was: I think that reputable seller and reputable manufacturer is more important than insisting on OEM. And the OEM police here can be overbearing.

I agree completely. I purchase most of my parts from Rockauto.com, they are a vendor here and provide discount codes to us as well as sell quality parts. I recently got burned on a set of "OEM grill clips" from Ebay that most definitely were not OEM and did not fit. Ebay is the wild west of car parts for sure.

The guys who say "only OEM" on non-essential parts much either 1. have deeper pockets than the average person or 2. have higher credit card debt than the average person. Some OEM part pricing is downright outrageous.

 

[APhelps]

I agree completely. I purchase most of my parts from Rockauto.com, they are a vendor here and provide discount codes to us as well as sell quality parts. I recently got burned on a set of "OEM grill clips" from Ebay that most definitely were not OEM and did not fit. Ebay is the wild west of car parts for sure.

The guys who say "only OEM" on non-essential parts much either 1. have deeper pockets than the average person or 2. have higher credit card debt than the average person. Some OEM part pricing is downright outrageous.

Same here. I think rockauto is pretty good in general and I typically try and source Denso products. I recently bought sunsong power steering hoses and they seemed like a great fit for the price ($80) compared to the OEM toyota ($500+) which is insanity for hoses. If the hoses were 150 I probably would have went OEM.

The only time I'm dead set on OEM products is engine critical components (headgaskets, engine internals, water pump, timing belt, oil pump and such).

Hell as of right now (I'll be changing over soon since I'm a bit nervous about them) is I'm running Moog LBJs, Moog OTREs, and Moog ITREs and I really haven't seen much of a problem with any of it. Been somewhere between 30-40k on them. I'm replacing the LBJs since I'm not sure about the greasing aspect of it and same with the OTREs. I'll figure out the ITREs when I'm playing with the rack to make sure they are in good shape though.

Edit: I personally think everyone should steer away from ebay when it comes to buying parts unless the seller is Toyota or some ultra reliable retailer. Just because some guy posts a photo with a part in OEM packaging doesn't mean crap.

 

[Wedgy]

There is always OEM, though that would be a poor choice if you were working on a Subaru. I do about 5-10 of those a year and Fel-Pro's head gasket is a big improvement over the OE single layer design. A Beck Arnley or Victor Reinz would be the exact same gasket that Fuji Industries used that fails in every single Subaru from the late 1990's to 2011 . QUOTE]
Yes, done that on several Subarus. Their response was to make their own coolant that didn't dissolve their crappy material OEM gasket.


How many mile on the OP's engine ? That would influence my decision on full tear down.

 

[APhelps]

There is always OEM, though that would be a poor choice if you were working on a Subaru. I do about 5-10 of those a year and Fel-Pro's head gasket is a big improvement over the OE single layer design. A Beck Arnley or Victor Reinz would be the exact same gasket that Fuji Industries used that fails in every single Subaru from the late 1990's to 2011 . QUOTE]
Yes, done that on several Subarus. Their response was to make their own coolant that didn't dissolve their crappy material OEM gasket.


How many mile on the OP's engine ? That would influence my decision on full tear down.

Unless he's low miles (which I kinda doubt) wouldn't it just be better to buy a rebuilt engine from a reliable vendor like yotashop?