Try better tires.
Panic Braking Today
- Thread starter adoihcj
- Start date
Try better tires.
Running Goodyear Duratracs sooooo 80% of us can't be wrong.... Oh maybe is cause I'm OWL out.
1engineer
Moderator
If you are slipping and sliding in the rain then you must have VSC turned off or you need a zero point calibration. Do a search to see if you have the same symptoms.
Contrary to popular belief, most people DO NOT know what they are doing while driving, hence all the nannies installed and accident rates are way down.
Yes you do need your vehicle to think for you. If it didn't, you would not be able to operate it.
If you feel systems such as VSC, ATRAC, ABS or any other system is dangerous and unpredictable then you need to sell it and buy a vehicle from the early 1970's or late 1960's. Every manufacturer has some version of these 'nannies" and some have taken it to a whole new level with lane departure, blind spot monitoring, etc.
80% of 4Runner owners do not run Duratracs they run all season tires similar to stock. 80% of the people on this board don't even run Duratracs. The Duratrac is a good tire but it is a specialized tire and for the vast majority of owners it is overkill.
Jeremy556
New member
I don't think he is sliding from a loss of traction of the tires. When the vsc kicks in on a turn when it shouldn't, the vehicle will understeer excesively, which feels like sliding.
I had to do a zero point calibration a few times - after an accident and some suspension parts replacement (stock parts), after lifting, and after adjusting lift height. When it was not calibrated, it would activate when not needed, and very annoying.
Agreed. I'd bet that 80% of the people on this board run standard all-season, highway tires, similar to the OEM tires.
Canazes9
New member
Greg,
Except for the rare occasions where I've had a problem with them, I'm a fan of the modern systems. I think they work well and make a good driver better. The above statement is the opposite of what I've been told. I was under the belief that the modern systems have NOT reduced accident rates. I have no data supporting either conclusion - do you have data or a study you can cite supporting that statement?
Regards,
David
westwind77
New member
Like said...VSC should kick in, and FAST, and alert you with beep and try to 'control' the situation. That said, I have only been able to slide the back end of the 4R out in snow and ice. I drive aggressively and am amazed at how well planted this 4R is. I had a 99' Durango with the 5.9L up front, now that thing was a fish-tail machine. Try doing 65 over wet overpasses with wet metal expansion gaps causing the back end to kick out over every one of them. Don't need coffee with that much adrenaline in your system.
I ran the stock tires for 16k and have run the Destination AT's up to the current 32k with no noticeable difference on wet roads. Big difference on snow though but we are not talking about that. My 4R is glued to the road compared to my old Durango, who knows, maybe I'm biased coming from that but I can't find an issue with it on wet road. I had to keep the Durango in FT4 when it rained if I did not want to worry about it slipping/sliding.
eddiebx
New member
This is the key point about Duratrac tires that people should understand before diving into a set because everyone else rants and raves about them; they are in fact a very specialized tire, but cornering and stopping distance are probably not one of them.
Granted I haven't done any real scientific studies, my OE sized Duratrac DO NOT handle better than even my shitty OE Dunlops. They are offer much less confidence in cornering and stopping distances do not seemed to have noticeably improved, and heck it might even be a bit worse.
No matter what some people want to lead themselves to believe after spending a grand on new tires, the stiffer sidewalls of even the E-load range don't really help out all that much in cornering because the of the huge voids in the tread blocks, not to mention the real deep treads. They are meant to clear mud, not handle like a sports car.
As far as stopping, I would not be surprised if they don't stop as well as any old all season tire either. Bigger tread block voids = less contact patch, somethings gotta give, lol.
If you go look at almost any Z-rated summer tire intended for maximum performance, you will see huge wide tread blocks which would help you feel a lot more connected to the road since they squirm around less than big floppy tread blocks like on the Duratracs.
Don't get me wrong I am not bashing these tires at all as they are perfect for it's intended purpose. But please don't go around thinking that these tires are going to offer you the best handling on road and off road.
Everything in life is a compromise, right Greg?
eddiebx
New member
BTW, I thought I should mention, once I put on my Duratracs for some odd reason, my traction control went nuts as well. My 4runner at the time only had ~2000 miles on it and the only change were the tires. Long story short, after a lot of aimless troubleshooting, I ended up doing a zero point calibration which seemed to have resolved my issues...I don't have any logical explanation why though. I would suggest you try that out as others have suggested and see if it fixes your problems. I completely understand how unnerving it feels when you want to do one thing and the 4runner has other plans, lol.
I don't disagree I probably do need a ZPC. But I ride with all of the nannies active.
I doubt this highly. I'd love to see statistics proving this theory.
Umm... Not sure how to respond to this as it's so absurd....
What I said was the VSC, and ABS assist on "this" vehicle specifically were dangerous and unpredictable. This is the first vehicle I have ever owned where the "nannies" were so violently apparent outside of actual ABS brakes. I've owned Jeeps, Subarus, Fords, and even own a motorcycle with ABS, from 1986 to present. I like this vehicle I think I might just keep it.
You're most likely correct, however I was looking for an off road tire, and these came highly recommended. I researched the tires quite extensively too. They provide best all around capabilities for what I require them to do. But a set of snow tires on rims will be installed for our mild winters up here in Canada.
Greg I'm not sure what brought on the animosity towards my post.... Like I said....it was my rant...but I still love my TE. The vehicle serves me and my family well. I am researching the wiggly rear end issue, and from what Others are saying a ZPC is in my future...
Keep Calm and Chive On!
harper7
Senior Member
Yaw Rate , Acceleration and Steering Angle Sensors ...... http://www.toyota-4runner.org/5th-g...celeration-sensor-zero-point-calibration.html
That definitely is what it sounds like Pails needs.
It seems to be a more prevalent problem on the TE's, especially with KDSS that using the same sensors for it and seem to be alot more touchy and easy to get out of whack.
My LE has never had this problem and I've had 6 different tires models on it including Duratracs.
1engineer
Moderator
Unfortunately with our government being on a "slimdown" I am unable to access the correct databases. Here is a link though http://www-nrd.nhtsa.dot.gov/Pubs/811552.pdf that gives an overall view of fatal and non fatal crashes for a time period.
I too like the VSC systems and believe they work well. As soon as our elected leaders decide to do something I will post the charts and graphs. I will say though total crashes per miles driven has declined at roughly the same rate as fatalities if my memory serves me correctly. I do remember the reason s for decline were active and passive restraint and stability controls. Now on to [MENTION=95803]Pails[/MENTION].
I will and did a RAK today. I mowed my sick old neighbor's yard.
Last edited:
Tengu
New member
I agree, it's happened to me three times, each time I was like wft, and literally pissed. I wouldn't have locked up in that situation, and had plenty of time to stop normally, but because transitioned quickly I have all this shit from the rear flying forward and lock up? I think brake assist has surpassed the apocalyptic seat belt alarm as my most hated "feature".
JayceeP
New member
Man, I see it everyday driving to and from work. Noobs everywhere.
Here's a good example of how brake assist saved my ass last weekend driving home for Thanksgiving. We were nearing the outskirts of Halifax just past the airport. Traffic is heavy but moving fast above the speed limit. Cars are grouped fairly close together, but traffic is not obstructed, and I was probably doing about 120kph/75mph in the left lane. I was not tailgating. I turn my head down for a split second- just enough time to guide my finger to the "map" button and in this split second my gf yells as I'm looking back up (not that he NAV screen is low to being with) and I see the rear end of the minivan in front of me closing fast VERY FAST. I smash the brakes not having any idea how quick I need to stop. The computer knows though. Everything locks, the wheels chirp, the 4Runner veers/slides several degrees off my straight heading. I release pressure but no, we are still closing fast, smash the brakes again slowing to a speed of about 60kph/under 40mph. My gf is freaking, her 10y/o in the back seat is still playing on the iPad like nothing happened and confirms "yup" in a confused response when I ask if he is ok.
Within a few moments, me still wondering why the hell traffic speed reduced 50% in such a dramatic way, I now see on the right shoulder a car pulled over and realized the car in the left lane at the front of the pack (maybe 5 cars ahead) decided to either panic or just sight see and slowed down to take at look at the stopped car. Ahead of this car at the front of the pack: nothing. Not a single car for a kilometre/close to a mile.
So this fool nearly killed everybody because they thought it smart to slow down to a very dangerous highway speed and take a look at the stopped car. I take responsibility for the split second my eyes weren't straight ahead but you can't plan for these kind of situations. I still would have been panic braking. I get cut off almost every day by people who pull out slowly into traffic and just assume you see them or you'll magically slow down. There's a weird entitlement amongst drivers in this part of the country. I really don't get it.
Last edited:
Foxtrapper32
New member
I think that it should be much less sensitive. I hate it and I thought it was just me with the issue until I let a friend drive it and it happened to him as well. none of the times were a real panic situation but the vehicle thought it was. It locks up and is almost uncontrollable when it happens. I hope that Toyota comes out with a fix for it. It's way to sensitive otherwise it might be ok.
TheRoadNotTaken
New member
I just experienced this for the first time today. Just got the truck and read the owners manual but must have glossed over this feature.
Girlfriend has a tendency to overreact and in turn freak me out if she thinks I'm about to crash (I've never been in an accident). Needless to say we were both quite shocked - in combination with the stock suspension's nosediving prowess - it felt as though we were going to cartwheel.
Anyway, pleased to see that I'm not the only one who nearly sharted due to this feature :toilet:
Girlfriend has a tendency to overreact and in turn freak me out if she thinks I'm about to crash (I've never been in an accident). Needless to say we were both quite shocked - in combination with the stock suspension's nosediving prowess - it felt as though we were going to cartwheel.
Anyway, pleased to see that I'm not the only one who nearly sharted due to this feature :toilet:
TrkyMfns
New member
Am I the only one that loves this system? Sure, it scared the sh*t out of me took me by surprise the first time it activated because it felt like the truck was going to cartwheel, but it stopped ridiculously fast. As far as someone riding your a** when it activates, I hope you have a trailer ball and hitch in.
