Pioneer 8 inch sub in 4th gen?

lawwailok

lawwailok

New member
hi, i am wondering if any member here try to replace the stock jbl 8 inch sub to the pioneer shallow 8 inch one without adding additional amp.
297969765TS-SW841Dside%20Reg.jpg



here is the spec of it: http://www.pioneerelectronics.com/PUSA/Products/CarAudioVideo/Subwoofers/Shallow/ci.TS-SW841D.Kuro
i was told that i need an extra amp but also i heard i don't. basically i have the jbl nav system, and i don't like the lack of bass of the sub, so i am thinking if that is possible just replace the sub without adding another amp.
 
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I don't see why it couldn't work. Biggest issue I'd look for would be to see if the stock amp is running anything higher than 4 ohms with the factory sub. Other than that it should make for a great replacement.
 
Mike07SE said:
I don't see why it couldn't work. Biggest issue I'd look for would be to see if the stock amp is running anything higher than 4 ohms with the factory sub. Other than that it should make for a great replacement.
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i was told that all stock speakers are running 2 ohms, right? and this pioneer is 4 ohms, will that be a problem? do you think that pioneer will have more bass than the stock jbl one?
 
No that shouldn't be a problem. The problem would've been if the amp was only designed to run at say 6, 8, or more ohms. Now if it's designed to run at 2 then that's not a problem as the Pioneer sub will only present half the work load at 4 ohms than the factory sub did at 2. Only problem at this point will be if the amp was pushing out 100W RMS for the factory sub at 2 ohms, it is now (theoretically in basic stereo math) only going to push out 50W RMS with a 4 ohm load. So hopefully in the end it will have enough power to push that new sub around.
 
Mike07SE said:
No that shouldn't be a problem. The problem would've been if the amp was only designed to run at say 6, 8, or more ohms. Now if it's designed to run at 2 then that's not a problem as the Pioneer sub will only present half the work load at 4 ohms than the factory sub did at 2. Only problem at this point will be if the amp was pushing out 100W RMS for the factory sub at 2 ohms, it is now (theoretically in basic stereo math) only going to push out 50W RMS with a 4 ohm load. So hopefully in the end it will have enough power to push that new sub around.
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thanks for the advise, i am total noob on stereo knowledge. well i guess i can try it out first, if it doesn't really work that great, i think i can add a 2 channel amp to push the sub only (that's what a lot of people suggested).
 
Hello. I got that same exact sub, and going from the 2 ohm output to the 4 ohm sub was a huge disappointment. You can barely hear it. The OEM sub was also a dual voice coil, and this one is a single. I ended up selling my OEM nav and went aftermarket (with an aftermarket amp for the sub as well) so I can't help out with how to alleviate the problem using the JBL amp.

You might be able to simply run the sub output of the JBL amp to the input of an aftermarket amp (high in), then run that to the Pio sub.

Good luck.
 
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A/V1 said:
Hello. I got that same exact sub, and going from the 2 ohm output to the 4 ohm sub was a huge disappointment. You can barely hear it. The OEM sub was also a dual voice coil, and this one is a single. I ended up selling my OEM nav and went aftermarket (with an aftermarket amp for the sub as well) so I can't help out with how to alleviate the problem using the JBL amp.

You might be able to simply run the sub output of the JBL amp to the input of an aftermarket amp (high in), then run that to the Pio sub.

Good luck.
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aw... that sucks. then do you think if we can find a 2 ohm 8 inch sub with a bit higher wattage, ie: 120watt, that will make a difference? thanks for the suggestion!
 
You'll definitely have much better results from a sub with a 2-ohm voice coil, and even better if it is a dual voice coil. However, before I bought the Pioneer, I'd been researching my options for quite some time.

Bottom line is there really aren't too many available in the 8" sub size, that will fit in our enclosures (max 4" deep). You could possibly do a custom 10" install maybe in the same enclosure, but that takes talent, & calculating the correct size sub / enclosure combination.

Again, good luck...
 
aw........ so even this polk audio

http://www.polkaudio.com/caraudio/specs/subs/8inch/db804dvc/

is kinda waste of money if just swap it in.... right? i am total noob on audio system so sorry about my dumb question.

oh, and btw, do i have to take out the whole panel to access the woofer or i can just use a screw driver to pop out the smaller cover that covers the amp and the sub area?
 
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To keep the stock enclosure and stealth of the install, A/V1 is right. The Pioneer sub pretty much is your ticket, it's just that any sub that you're pretty much going to put in there isn't going to sound that good with the stock amp powering it. Stick with the Pioneer sub and get an aftermarket amp that you can probably stash under the front seats and run a high level speaker input to them. That should end up working well for you're looking to do.
 
so my other polk audio link above is worse than the pioneer?

let's do some ranking:
stock amp with stock sub
stock amp with pioneer sub
stock amp with polk audio sub

how will you rank the best bass without changing the amp?

also as mentioned in my last post, do i have to remove the whole rear panel in order to access the amp/sub or can i pop the smaller piece cover (the one cover amp and sub)?

thanks guys!
 
Well, judging by the Polk sub needing 180W RMS vs. the Pioneer needing 120W RMS, and as luck would have it for comparison's sake, the sensitivity rating are both equal at 85dB, the Polk will be less efficient with the stock JBL amp, therefore won't sound as good. The Pioneer is going to work a little better. Basically what this is getting down to is that you will need to consider an amp to power whatever sub you get.

Also the Pioneer sub is designed to work in an enclosure range of .15-.5 c.f. whereas the Polk needs .35. I'm not sure how big that JBL box can be but I'm sure it's gotta be around .25cf. You'll then also need to factor in that the Polk sub is 4" deep vs. the Pioneer being 2.25", and will therefore also take up more box volume that you need for it to be tuned right. Pioneer again wins in this setup.

As far as having access to the JBL Sub enclosure, I don't have a Synthesis system in my 4R, so I can't say for sure, but I though the cover did allow you access to the sub enclosure. Someone else will have to chime in on that.
 
Oh and having a Dual or 2 ohm voicecoil doesn't neccessarily mean that it's better than a 4 ohm or single voice coil sub. The reason most manufacturers do this is to allow more versitility in multiple sub installs to achieve a desire ohm rating depending on how its wired to the amp. Most sub amps are designed to run at least 2 ohms so that is why most people try to get either a single two ohm sub (rare), or a dual voicecoil sub.

Here's a link to JL Audio's website which has a very good explanation on how to wire up various subs. This will give you a better idea of what I'm talking about:

JL Audio Subwoofer Wiring Tutorial

Hope this all helps!
 
ic, thanks for the link, but i think i need time to learn all the new thing... hahahaha

so polk audio is a no-no already

now if we compare the stock jbl and pioneer, which one you think is the winner?
 
The Pioneer without a doubt is the winner. It will immediately give you better output and sound quality. However, the downside will be that you're going to have to add an amp to power it which isn't what you originally had intended on.
 
ok, so if i plan to run the stock amp, then might as well just stick with the stock jbl sub? if i want to run the pinoeer, then definitely need an other amp just for powering it?
 
Pretty much. You do have options though for some inexpensive amps that you can probably stash away somewhere. Here's a link for mono amps to a place I like to shop at a lot for car audio:

Sonic Electronix

If you do get one, kind of stay away from Boss, Dual, or Jensen. The Power Acoustik is fairly decent and may meet your needs.
 
ok, thanks for advice!

i think i'll stick with stock sub until i am ready to put an extra amp for a new sub later.
 
A clarification for a few comments in this thread.

The Stock JBL Synthesis sub is DVC and the stock amp dedicates *2* channels to the sub...one per coil at 45 watts each.

You need to remove the whole side panel and then some to get to the sub box. Access instructions. .

The sub enclosure is .6 ft^3 according to the original Toyota sales information kit that was posted on the forum back when the 4th Gen launched.

If you do a bit of searching, you should be able to find installs where folks have used Polk, Rockford Fosgate, and Elemental Designs 8" subs in the stock enclosure with the stock amp.

A manufacturer's power rating neither means the driver *requires* that much power nor that it will really handle that much power. Real world power handling is nearly always excursion limited unless the box is way undersized...excursion for a given power input varies with frequency and enclosure volume.

Thermal power ratings (what most driver power handling specs really refer to) has nothing to do with sensitivity. Two drivers with the same sensitivity rating could have different thermal power handling limits because of the marketing guys or due to longer vc, thicker gauge wire used for the same length vc, different material used for the vc wire, better air flow in/around the vc, etc.

-Brent
 
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