Point of no return for low oil?

[cscrawford]

Newby here!

I've been looking at a neighbor's 85 EFI Straight Axle 4cyl/5spd. It's ROUGH cosmetically. Looks like a dog ate the front seat, every fender and panel is dented, and some minor fender rust. That being said the engine on this 169k vehicle was supposed to have been replaced at some time, anybody's guess. Two windows are stuck down...as I said rough. I was planning to pop the top, remove carpet, drill holes and maybe rhino coat the thing. What scared me from making an offer of $500 or so was the dipstick.

If the low mark is an inch from the bottom of the stick, and the high mark is another 1/2 to 3/4" higher (going by memory here), the very black oil was barely touching the stick at all. A 1/4" is probably pushing my luck. I called my BMW mechanic and he said a 5 quart engine will probably barely show on the dipstick if it is low one quart, and two quarts will be off all together...however there should be enough oil to keep the engine safe. So I'm back to thinking of making an offer. I'm just afraid the rod bearings might be damaged, and if I buy a truck with a bad engine I'm upside down on yard art.
Anybody ever run real low on oil without toasting an engine? I'm afraid the owner has no clue how rough the vehicle is, and may be insulted by what may be too high an offer...but I haven't crossed that line yet.
What would a good top and a staight axle assembly be worth on one of these things, freight excluded, in case I have to abort with a bad engine? I live in Dallas, TX. Thanks!

 

[Gryphon]

It sounds like it is about two quarts low. That ~should~ not take out the mill, unless that has been the regular operating condition.

At least on my 'Yo's 3.0 that is how it goes; ADD is 1 quart low. Same with my CJ7's 256 I6, and all my VW's.

Now, for the tricky stuff: if the truck is battered, the drivetrain is sure to be too. Check the oil on the sipstick for metal. Take a bit and smear it between a finger and thumb and see what it looks like. If there is a lot of metallic looking particles in suspension, then you likely have very worn internals in your engine. Check the coolant too. If it is an auto, do the same checl on that too, also smell the fluid, is it burnt smelling and brown? Red is good, brown is bad.

Next: Top off the oil and see how it runs. Does it smoke, rattle or knock? Run it at differing rpm's and let it warm up. Hows the idle?

Nasty oil can be ok if there is nothing serious wrong. Whats the mileage? It may just be an oil change is all it really needs. Several close-interval changes (every 6 weeks or so) should clean it up nicely inside if nothing is seriously wrong. I had to do that with mine. It had not had an oil change in over a year. I did all the other fluids at the same time (including axles, t-case, etc...)

At $500, it may be worthwhile anyway! Toss in a decent wrecking yard mill, and you still have less than $1000 into it. Have it rebuilt, and you should have less than 2K into it with a new engine. 22RE's are legendary for survival, tho even the best succomb to spun bearings and such. For 20 bucks, you can have the oil tested for contaminats that will tell you what is going on inside the engine. (run a search for this, there was a thread on it a while back in the general yak forum.)

 

[cscrawford]

1st Gen basket case analysis

Thanks for the feedback. My guess based on my "finger analysis" is that the oil is just old and filthy, and the truck is probably just way overdue for an oil change. I did notice oil all over part of the engine, and suspect it is blowing out from somewhere. The valve cover cap had no white sludge (water in the engine) and had that old engine stink...but nothing too pungent. Coolant looked ok. Part of what makes this a gamble is that it hasn't been run in 3 years, has a dead battery, and probably has bad fuel etc. I haven't hooked up power whether from my spare battery or a charger to get a read on fuel level, but I'm thinking I'll add some fuel additive and some fresh high octane to the tank, and pray I don't have to drain the fuel lines. One piece of advice was to RUN IT if I get it started, to run that crap through-and-out-of the system ASAP.
If my neighbor and I agree on a price, I'll pull a couple of plugs so it won't fire and turn it over to lube the engine, then add the plugs (maybe with a little starter fluid into the intake) and hope it'll fire up. I guess I just need to bite the bullet and make an offer. It'll be hours of prepping before I even try to start it, that adds to the gamble. Maybe I need some of you old timers to tell me to pull the trigger.
If I had to have it towed to a salvage yard, what would an 85 straight axle with a good top...169,000 miles, be worth? I know I'll be up to my eyeballs in maintenance but I kind of enjoy that stuff, especially if I can I get the thing cheap. Just worried about getting stuck with junk that can't be driven away. Neighbors won't dig the dented red yard art.

ANY advice BEYOND welcome!

 

[Jim_Chow]

I think you're 2 qts low. When I change oil+filter, I use 1 gallon total, which brings me to within 1/2 qt of the top of the dipstick. So I'd say if you're not changing the oil filter, it would take 4 qts (22re, same engine as yours). So basically, it's at half capacity...not very good. I've only run mine down to the lower mark on the dipstick. It could be the truck is burning 1 qt of oil every 1K mi and the guy didn't check in a while. The only way to know is to do an oil change, run it 3K mi, see how much oil was burned, and have the used oil tested. If it's burning a lot of oil, the valve seals/rings are probably shot. I guess a compression test would also confirm if the rings are shot. With old cars (> 100K mi, 15+ yrs of age), it's generally easy to tell if it was maintained by just driving it and checking the condition of the body. BTW, looking at people's cars is also a good indication of the condition of their home if you're shopping for a house! If the owner is too cheap/lazy to fix his car, you bet the same holds for his house!

 

[Gryphon]

It does not sound too bad. It is EFI, right? You may beed/want to get the injectors cleaned or replace them too. A new fuel filter and some fresh gas can do a lot of good. I'd vote to drain the tank. Its a pain, but worth it with old gas!

I agree on the pull the coil wire and crank it over. A bit of Marvel Mystery oil down each cylinder a couple hours beforehand can be cheap insurance too. Add some to your crankcase and fuel if you want too. I have used it in all these ways and it works great on old engines.

Get it running and change fluids and filters (fuel and oil) often for the first year or so. Sounds good!

Wrecking yards are a joke. You would be better off (IMHO) to part a truck out yourself. Around here, you would be doing good to get 25 bucks. I can't speak for your area, but yards are in business to get their parts dirt cheap and sell them for about 15% less than new (it seems)!:bash:

 

[cscrawford]

Didn't buy it

Well, my slacker neighbor who's 4runner has been rotting in a shed for over three years turned down my offer of $500 (a healthy offer) for his ate-up 4runner. I think the only reason he didn't sell it to me was because he thought it must be worth something, since I wanted it. I'm sure it will sit there and rot for another 5-10 years, so I'm off looking for another. Thanks for all the help on this one! Maybe he'll realize he has the initiative of a slug and then realize the smartest thing he could do is let me pay him to get rid of a problem, but I'm not counting on it.

 

[Gryphon]

Yeah no kidding!

Slugs like that usually wind up with the rotting shed taking out their "prize" when it falls in!

Whatta dork. Like the guy I knew of who let a 1968 Charger rot to nothing becuase he was "gonna get to it one o' these days".

Look carefully, you should be able to find a RUNNING 'Yo for 500 bucks.