potential owner - need help figuring out build

[bigredrage]

Hello Everyone,

So I've researched and dabbled into this for a long time now and I need to seek advise from current owners as I still havent figured it out.

I currently offroad a 1994 jeep cherokee on 35s, 6.5" lift, lockers, chromolly shafts, 4.56 gears and more. Its a BEAST!

But, most my offroading buddies have retired and I am tired of working on the jeep all the time. Its built for rock crawling in arizona and it does an amazing job but with rock crawling comes weekly part breaking. I'm just not into it like that anymore. The main thing I like when offroading is overlanding, adventuring and exploring. So, I dont necessarily need something like my current jeep.

My DD is a 2007 silverado. It still runs great and only has 160k miles on it.

What I am looking at doing is getting a 4runner for my DD and overlanding, turning my truck into a utility specialty vehicle for when I need it and then possibly....gasp....selling my jeep as I wont really need it anymore. I might replace it with an old hotrod but thats another story.

Anyway, that leads to why I am here. I have 3 kids and am a single dad, I need a 3rd row. whether I have a girl im seeing that has kids and wants to come to mexico with us or just whatever, I need more than 5 seats. This is where the 4runner seems to come in. It can give me superior offroad performance AND a third row? Sweet!

But, it turns out I can only get a third row if I get an sr5 or sr5 premium. I just rented a trd pro for a few days just to feel the truck out, im turning it back in tomorrow and am anxious to get this figured out and have one of my own.

so, the nuts and bolts:

Between the sr5's, offroad editions and trd pro.....the main differences I see are wheel and rims which is easy to fix, traction control systems which I dont feel I really need, some different shocks, lockers and the KDSS system.

I have always offroaded old vehicles so the traction control thing seems overkill to me. I can survive with just 4wd.

Now, the sr5 premium to the trd off road pro is a 10k difference. I feel I could easily add a lift and lockers for well under $10,000.

So im thinking i could get a 3rd row sr5 premium, add a locker and my own lift (the lift changes the shocks and springs anyway) and really it becomes a trd pro without the fancy trim stuff and withous the kdss and traction control, right? Is that really it?

Can I get KDSS installed? should I bother? I am used to having normal sway bars and installing quick disconnects so when I am off road, I just take the sway bars off. The KDSS seems to be a somewhat automatic sway bar on off feature that the computer determines when to do what?

Do I have to do the lift at the dealer to have them honor warranties?

For example, bilstein shocks and 3" lift for $1,100...trd pro is bilstein shocks and trd springs, so pretty much the same thing? https://www.toyteclifts.com/ttha-ck-rcc-3-lift-w-bilstein-5100-front-coilovers-fj-4runner-gx.html

Anyway, curious what you guys think, happy to review links to other threads. There is so much information out there that I have combed for months and I never seem to get to where I need so thought I should finally start a thread.

Thats about where I am now:
sr5 premium with moon roof or sun roof or whatever its called.
at least 3" lift
rear locker
new rims and better tires, can sell my stock ones. (33" seems to be the max for these even with 3" lift? not sure that the differential gears are on the 4runner cant find it)
roof rack

At that point, its basically a TRD pro without KDSS and fancy stamping and lettering, right?

thanks again.

Oh and I attached pics of my jeep for fun

 

[Engineer]

I think you have the major differences down, of course there are a lot of small details like interior and exterior trim that is different between the SR5 and Pros - if that stuff does not matter or appeal to you it will without a doubt be a better deal to get the SR5 and then install a suspension of your choosing along with a locker. Regardless, the 3rd row requirement obviously limits you to a SR5 or Limited and I will assume you don't want a limited due to the lower body panels.

33" tires are not what I would call the max but anything bigger and you start to have to do more to prevent rubbing - Body mount chop, move fender liner forward, more positive caster etc. - for that matter 33s can require some or all of this depending on your wheel specifications and exact tire.

The differential gearing in all v6 5th gen 4runners is 3.73 - a common upgrade is 4.56 with some going as deep as 4.88

Don't be fooled by the Pro bandwagon/following - all 5th gens are 98%* identical mechanically and the only major differences being some body panels and of course the areas you pointed out (locker, some electronic traction gadgets, KDSS) any of them are great platforms to start from.

*made up #

 

[wcjeep]

If you are going to lift/modify skip the kdss and Pro. The special parts will probably go away in your case. Sunroof will lose about 3" of headroom. Consider a full roof rack replacement for carrying stuff.

Depending on cargo needs and child ages also consider the Sequioa.

 

[bigredrage]

I think you have the major differences down, of course there are a lot of small details like interior and exterior trim that is different between the SR5 and Pros - if that stuff does not matter or appeal to you it will without a doubt be a better deal to get the SR5 and then install a suspension of your choosing along with a locker. Regardless, the 3rd row requirement obviously limits you to a SR5 or Limited and I will assume you don't want a limited due to the lower body panels.

33" tires are not what I would call the max but anything bigger and you start to have to do more to prevent rubbing - Body mount chop, move fender liner forward, more positive caster etc. - for that matter 33s can require some or all of this depending on your wheel specifications and exact tire.

The differential gearing in all v6 5th gen 4runners is 3.73 - a common upgrade is 4.56 with some going as deep as 4.88

Don't be fooled by the Pro bandwagon/following - all 5th gens are 98%* identical mechanically and the only major differences being some body panels and of course the areas you pointed out (locker, some electronic traction gadgets, KDSS) any of them are great platforms to start from.

*made up #

Much appreciated! So basically you just think I'm on the right track lol

 

[bigredrage]

If you are going to lift/modify skip the kdss and Pro. The special parts will probably go away in your case. Sunroof will lose about 3" of headroom. Consider a full roof rack replacement for carrying stuff.

Depending on cargo needs and child ages also consider the Sequioa.

I'm 6'5 so headroom matters. Legroom is tight vs my truck too but that's how these and my Cherokee are.

The pro I rented has a sun roof and with my seat completely down, my hair doesn't touch the roof so it should be fine I think

 

[MrGainzz]

Seriously,if you know you are gonna modify your truck,get an SR5.
SR5 is vastly underrated and under appreciated since most people tend to think the trd off road is the best bang for the buck.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[CF_Machete]

Not sure about adding kdss, but everything else can be added to the sr5... including the traction control. I'd assume the kdss can be added as well, but I haven't seen a write up on it.

while you can add the third row to the pro and off road models, I don't believe the airbags are included in non third row models. additionally, the middle row is different in third row models.

for that point alone, the SR5 or limited with 3rd row are your safest bet. The only advantages that the limited will have would be awd and creature comforts, but as noted your rocker panels and bumpers would most likely need to be modified/ swapped for the kind of overlanding you seem to do. if awd and creature comforts aren't a concern, get the SR5

 

[Orc]

Payload on the models with a locker is below 900 but the SR5 is 1100 something so keep that in mind. 7 people are heavy

 

[sandcrawler]

Anyway, that leads to why I am here. I have 3 kids and am a single dad, I need a 3rd row. whether I have a girl im seeing that has kids and wants to come to mexico with us or just whatever, I need more than 5 seats. This is where the 4runner seems to come in. It can give me superior offroad performance AND a third row? Sweet!

But, it turns out I can only get a third row if I get an sr5 or sr5 premium. I just rented a trd pro for a few days just to feel the truck out, im turning it back in tomorrow and am anxious to get this figured out and have one of my own.

......

So im thinking i could get a 3rd row sr5 premium, add a locker and my own lift (the lift changes the shocks and springs anyway) and really it becomes a trd pro without the fancy trim stuff and withous the kdss and traction control, right? Is that really it?

......

Thats about where I am now:
sr5 premium with moon roof or sun roof or whatever its called.
at least 3" lift
rear locker
new rims and better tires, can sell my stock ones. (33" seems to be the max for these even with 3" lift? not sure that the differential gears are on the 4runner cant find it)
roof rack

At that point, its basically a TRD pro without KDSS and fancy stamping and lettering, right?

FYI: KDSS is not available on the TRD Pro. apart from that, it sounds like you've got it figured out for the most part.

if you absolutely "need more than 5 seats", however, i'll say that i'd be looking into a Land Cruiser — not the 4Runner.

 

[Angelo]

Having owned both a Pro and now an ORP with KDSS, I can attest that the KDSS system is pretty stellar for dual-purpose DD / offroad... as long as you're not planning to replicate your big lift and / or long travel because the travel of the KDSS swaybars would be a limiting factor there. But then, if you're gonna DD it you wouldn't want all that anyway. 3" up front is definitely possible with KDSS.

I haven't read anywhere about anyone installing KDSS after the fact, and it's probably doable, but for the time and money you might rather figure out the third row for an OR instead. I think you're on the right track with your expectations and budget for improvements on an SR5 but if you haven't driven the KDSS system yet, you should.

The other small and probably insignificant change between SR5 and TRDOR is the manual transfer case, the SR5 and Limited have an electronic version. I've heard no reliability issues with either, just pointing it out.

 

[PapaRappa]

More than 5 seats is a must. So forget any of the TRD line (OR, ORP, Pro) as many of these fine forum members have suggested. That leaves you without KDSS which is meh anyway. (To those who love KDSS, I agree that it’s an amazing system, I choose not to have it and it wouldn’t stop me from buying a 4Runner)

But, it seems like you had the money to go TRD Pro, so, may I humbly suggest the sacrilege of going Limited? Treat yourself. Get the upgraded sound, leather, extra seats, better climate control, auto-headlights. IIRC, it also has parking sensors and push button start. AND, I will dare say it has a BETTER FULL-TIME 4wd system, I believe it’s the same system as in the land cruiser, again, should verify.

Some folks on this forum have done really amazing things with the Limited. It’s a project to be sure because you definitely need a new front number and gotta swap those 20’s for a more appropriate wheel.

My 2 cents.

 

[mteolus]

If I were you, I would take all your kids down to the dealership and have them get in the 3rd row seat. I have an ORP so I don't have a 3rd row seat, but I have heard it is VERY small. Plus you will have zero room for cargo so you'll have to get a roof rack. I think Toyota threw in the 3rd row seat just to sell a few more vehicles but the vehicle really wasn't designed for that.

If you decide on an SR5 not a bad choice. I wouldn't worry about KDSS (probably difficult to install them anyway) and as others have said the Pro doesn't have it (and neither does an SR5) anyway and the Pro is pricey. If you do get a 3" lift, I would recommend new upper control arms which will add about $500 to your cost depending on which ones you get. SCS wheels are made for Toyota's so that would be my recommendation there, although as others have said with the SCS offset and backspacing and 285's you may have to do some minor modifications to keep them from rubbing. Also, what prevents you from going 4"? Most with KDSS will tell you 3" is the max but without KDSS you can go higher.

I am not sure if the SR5 has any skid plates, I know the Off Road does but they are thin. So plan on getting skid plates. Sliders would probably a good addition too.

If the kids are too big for the 3rd row seat, then you are looking at a very expensive Land Cruiser. Otherwise, probably a Tahoe if you can deal with the reliability issues.

 

[bigredrage]

FYI: KDSS is not available on the TRD Pro. apart from that, it sounds like you've got it figured out for the most part.

if you absolutely "need more than 5 seats", however, i'll say that i'd be looking into a Land Cruiser — not the 4Runner.

I typically buy with cash, this would be my first "new" vehicle, no way in hell would I get an 80,000 one nor would I offroad an 80,000 truck. I bought a land rover once for 8k thinking I got this awesome deal and then every little problem it had it went into limp mode until I deposited $2,000 into it. Never make that mistake again.

 

[bigredrage]

Very much appreciate all the replies!

Payload on the models with a locker is below 900 but the SR5 is 1100 something so keep that in mind. 7 people are heavy

I wouldnt offroad with 7 much and if I did, it wouldnt be real gnarly stuff so i dont think this will matter.

Seriously,if you know you are gonna modify your truck,get an SR5.
SR5 is vastly underrated and under appreciated since most people tend to think the trd off road is the best bang for the buck.
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

it seems perfectly capable if I dump 5k into it. The TRD holds value better but so what?

Having owned both a Pro and now an ORP with KDSS, I can attest that the KDSS system is pretty stellar for dual-purpose DD / offroad... as long as you're not planning to replicate your big lift and / or long travel because the travel of the KDSS swaybars would be a limiting factor there. But then, if you're gonna DD it you wouldn't want all that anyway. 3" up front is definitely possible with KDSS.

I haven't read anywhere about anyone installing KDSS after the fact, and it's probably doable, but for the time and money you might rather figure out the third row for an OR instead. I think you're on the right track with your expectations and budget for improvements on an SR5 but if you haven't driven the KDSS system yet, you should.

The other small and probably insignificant change between SR5 and TRDOR is the manual transfer case, the SR5 and Limited have an electronic version. I've heard no reliability issues with either, just pointing it out.

3" might be all I do, maybe 4 with long travel? I imagine the KDSS probably isnt worth what it would cost to dd in vs just having disconnecting sway bars. I'm not a fan of acceleration or deacceleration assistance in vehicles and kdss seems somewhat similar...

The problem with lifting too much is that it will be a DD and will make 8 hour round trips to a vacation spot in mexico at least once a month so the on road performance is important along with being able to go over 100mph comfortably for long periods.

More than 5 seats is a must. So forget any of the TRD line (OR, ORP, Pro) as many of these fine forum members have suggested. That leaves you without KDSS which is meh anyway. (To those who love KDSS, I agree that it’s an amazing system, I choose not to have it and it wouldn’t stop me from buying a 4Runner)

But, it seems like you had the money to go TRD Pro, so, may I humbly suggest the sacrilege of going Limited? Treat yourself. Get the upgraded sound, leather, extra seats, better climate control, auto-headlights. IIRC, it also has parking sensors and push button start. AND, I will dare say it has a BETTER FULL-TIME 4wd system, I believe it’s the same system as in the land cruiser, again, should verify.

Some folks on this forum have done really amazing things with the Limited. It’s a project to be sure because you definitely need a new front number and gotta swap those 20’s for a more appropriate wheel.

My 2 cents.

I could do a limited but even spending 40k on a vehicle hurts a little, I am usually tight with finances and dont make lavish purchases. I can do it right now but it means starting over savings and etc and I want to be smart, there are other things I am planning on doing that require serious purchasing power too. The limited stock I think is near 50k and then changing the wheels, tires, bumpers, lifting and adding lockers could be 10k or more. I get the thinking, I just dont think im willing to spend that much dough. sound and push buttons are things I could add aftermarket if I really felt the need, the only thing that would intrigue me is the "better 4wd system" but I am imagining the sr5 is more than capable.

If I were you, I would take all your kids down to the dealership and have them get in the 3rd row seat. I have an ORP so I don't have a 3rd row seat, but I have heard it is VERY small. Plus you will have zero room for cargo so you'll have to get a roof rack. I think Toyota threw in the 3rd row seat just to sell a few more vehicles but the vehicle really wasn't designed for that.

If you decide on an SR5 not a bad choice. I wouldn't worry about KDSS (probably difficult to install them anyway) and as others have said the Pro doesn't have it (and neither does an SR5) anyway and the Pro is pricey. If you do get a 3" lift, I would recommend new upper control arms which will add about $500 to your cost depending on which ones you get. SCS wheels are made for Toyota's so that would be my recommendation there, although as others have said with the SCS offset and backspacing and 285's you may have to do some minor modifications to keep them from rubbing. Also, what prevents you from going 4"? Most with KDSS will tell you 3" is the max but without KDSS you can go higher.

I am not sure if the SR5 has any skid plates, I know the Off Road does but they are thin. So plan on getting skid plates. Sliders would probably a good addition too.

If the kids are too big for the 3rd row seat, then you are looking at a very expensive Land Cruiser. Otherwise, probably a Tahoe if you can deal with the reliability issues.

I'm 6'5 and sat in the back, its room enough for kids for sure. it does kill cargo space but i fully intend on having a roof rack, maybe even using my jeep roof rack if its the right size. sliders would be a given, especially to help my 4 year old get in it, she already has trouble in the stock trd pro. Nothing prevents me from goiung 4: except that it will be a partial offroader and ft DD so while it is very important to me that i can get around off road, i cant sacrifice the long distance driving comfort. Ive already made the mistake of turning my jeep into a buggy and once you do that they become nowhere near as useful on road. Tahoe is like 55k out the door, massive and depreciates faster than cartmans mom so those are out of the questions.

I currently have a 2007 silverado extended cab with the small suicide doors to get into a small back bench seat. they've sat back there forever so i doubt they would mind the third row on rare occasions.

tires are something ill want to dive deeply into after buying the truck and deciding on lift size so for now im blanking that information.





To everyone: if I buy it stock and do all the modifactions outside of the dealer, does that dealer then become a problem with warranties? I feel like if I do the lift at the dealer, I am getting shafted and taking advise from salesmen who do not offroad and thats the last thing I want to do. I am in sales myself but i understand my product inside and out and use that to help people while making money. The amount of bullshit ive dealt with while fact finding and trying to get extended test drives through salesmen has made it hard for me to even think about going to buy one, they are just too full of shit and will give incorrect information instead of admitting they dont know something.


If I do my own lift there or elsewhere and there is no kdss, do you just have sway bars? The front is not a solid axle so I dont know how that works, I imagine the rear would have a sway bar but when i look up electronic disconnect sway bars or quick disconnects for 4 runner sway bars they dont seem to exist? I cant imagine people offroad these things with sway bars on all the time?


So a lift, even with control arms should be 3k max with installation, probably less. I could sell the stock rims and tires for the price of tires, say $750 or a little more. New rims and tires would probably run me like $1300

so 3500 max so far. Possibly add in a few hundred for a roof rack and 500 for a locker installed and I think id be in motion. even if that put me at 4k, an sr5 premium with all of it would likely be under 45000 with taxes and etc from the purchase.

 

[CF_Machete]

To everyone: if I buy it stock and do all the modifactions outside of the dealer, does that dealer then become a problem with warranties? I feel like if I do the lift at the dealer, I am getting shafted and taking advise from salesmen who do not offroad and thats the last thing I want to do. I am in sales myself but i understand my product inside and out and use that to help people while making money. The amount of bullshit ive dealt with while fact finding and trying to get extended test drives through salesmen has made it hard for me to even think about going to buy one, they are just too full of shit and will give incorrect information instead of admitting they dont know something.


If I do my own lift there or elsewhere and there is no kdss, do you just have sway bars? The front is not a solid axle so I dont know how that works, I imagine the rear would have a sway bar but when i look up electronic disconnect sway bars or quick disconnects for 4 runner sway bars they dont seem to exist? I cant imagine people offroad these things with sway bars on all the time?


So a lift, even with control arms should be 3k max with installation, probably less. I could sell the stock rims and tires for the price of tires, say $750 or a little more. New rims and tires would probably run me like $1300

so 3500 max so far. Possibly add in a few hundred for a roof rack and 500 for a locker installed and I think id be in motion. even if that put me at 4k, an sr5 premium with all of it would likely be under 45000 with taxes and etc from the purchase.

With the amount that you can put into an SR5 with 3rd row, Perhaps an Icon stage 2 would be a good lift option. easy enough to do yourself. Usually you will only void warranties of parts you modify with dealers... so I wouldn't worry about that.

The rims usually go for $300-$350, though most people post them for $400. I sold my for $350 a few years ago with lugs locally and the tires wen to a fried for $200 with 25K on them. a dealer might upgrade your tires right out of the gate and if they take sticker price for your stock tires, thats the way to go; and don't for get the spare. Same for the rims if you want toyota rims... like the black pro's.

If you get an ARB air locker for the rear, get it installed at an ARB certified installer. There are some seals with in the Locker that can fail and ARB is pretty good with covering parts and service. In the cases I've read about, the locker still engages, but your compressor runs constantly until the repairs are made.

There are manual disconnects available for the 5th gens, but I'd try it on some trails first to see if you find them necessary... every vehicle is different.

 

[Angelo]

3" might be all I do, maybe 4 with long travel? I imagine the KDSS probably isnt worth what it would cost to dd in vs just having disconnecting sway bars. I'm not a fan of acceleration or deacceleration assistance in vehicles and kdss seems somewhat similar...

You may already know this, and I'm not sure I'm understanding you correctly but KDSS is a speed-controlled hydraulic "swaybar" that loosens allowing freer wheel travel under 12mph but tightens (restricting body roll) over 12mph. This is the mechanism of improved handling on-road while still maintaining off-road wheel travel. It's not an acceleration or de-acceleration assistant of any kind.

the only thing that would intrigue me is the "better 4wd system" but I am imagining the sr5 is more than capable.

Again you probably already know this but the Limited isn't a "better" 4wd, just different in that it has a center diff (full time 4wd) vs the other trims part-time engagement system. The Limited is the only 4R trim with the X-REAS system, which would definitely complicate your plan for a suspension lift. Most regularly offroaded Limiteds (and there are quite a few great examples) I see around here have removed the system entirely.

To everyone: if I buy it stock and do all the modifactions outside of the dealer, does that dealer then become a problem with warranties?

The Magnuson-Moss Act prevents companies from refusing to honor warranty work unless they can prove that your aftermarket parts caused the damage. I suspect that the dealer, depending on their outlook, could still make life very difficult for you if they weren't off-road friendly. Buyer beware on that one.

I feel like if I do the lift at the dealer, I am getting shafted and taking advise from salesmen who do not offroad and thats the last thing I want to do... they are just too full of shit and will give incorrect information instead of admitting they dont know something.

My own experience has been that there is more true information and applicable knowledge on this forum than I ever got from the Toyota salesman, but they don't care about the things we care about, so no surprise there really. They just want to sell a Camry or a Prius, or hell even a 4Runner. I wouldn't personally want to do the lift at the dealer unless you find one that's reputable and experienced with aftermarket installations and even then they're going to be exponentially more expensive. You're in Mesa, have you spoken with Sonoran Steel or ADS?

If I do my own lift there or elsewhere and there is no kdss, do you just have sway bars? The front is not a solid axle so I dont know how that works, I imagine the rear would have a sway bar but when i look up electronic disconnect sway bars or quick disconnects for 4 runner sway bars they dont seem to exist? I cant imagine people offroad these things with sway bars on all the time?

There are swaybar quick disconnects out there but none for KDSS that I'm aware of, it'd take some fundamental modifications to the system to get those two to play together nice, so I'd imagine that's more trouble than it's worth but maybe someone with more experience with the disconnects can chime in there. If you go with no KDSS trim (SR5), then yes it's regular old swaybars, springs, and shocks.

So a lift, even with control arms should be 3k max with installation, probably less. I could sell the stock rims and tires for the price of tires, say $750 or a little more. New rims and tires would probably run me like $1300 so 3500 max so far. Possibly add in a few hundred for a roof rack and 500 for a locker installed and I think id be in motion. even if that put me at 4k, an sr5 premium with all of it would likely be under 45000 with taxes and etc from the purchase.

I don't think your budget is too far off, but it depends on what you want from the lift and how fast you want to get it all done. If you're going non-rebuildable (Bilstein 5100 / Eibach / Dobinsons / OME) then the shocks and springs will cost you around $800 + installation. If you need rebuildable / resi / bypass, you're talking at least $1800 + installation and the resi / bypass shocks get up around $3k list very quickly. $500 is a good range for UCAs, which you'll likely need at 3" up front. The roof rack will set you back around a grand by the time it's all over from what I've seen. The ARB locker will run you around a grand list, before installation. I do think you'll be running a beast of an SR5 if you're planning on 10k for mods, which it sounds like that's what you're planning on.

Still think you should do more research and reading HERE and definitely test drive the KDSS before you decide. The OR trim might be your best go out the gate if you want a locker and the OEM OR wheels will mount 285s. Good luck man.

 

[bigredrage]

With the amount that you can put into an SR5 with 3rd row, Perhaps an Icon stage 2 would be a good lift option. easy enough to do yourself. Usually you will only void warranties of parts you modify with dealers... so I wouldn't worry about that.

The rims usually go for $300-$350, though most people post them for $400. I sold my for $350 a few years ago with lugs locally and the tires wen to a fried for $200 with 25K on them. a dealer might upgrade your tires right out of the gate and if they take sticker price for your stock tires, thats the way to go; and don't for get the spare. Same for the rims if you want toyota rims... like the black pro's.

If you get an ARB air locker for the rear, get it installed at an ARB certified installer. There are some seals with in the Locker that can fail and ARB is pretty good with covering parts and service. In the cases I've read about, the locker still engages, but your compressor runs constantly until the repairs are made.

There are manual disconnects available for the 5th gens, but I'd try it on some trails first to see if you find them necessary... every vehicle is different.

"Usually you will only void warranties of parts you modify with dealers" I dont quite understand what this comment meant.

My jeep is only front locked so its a permanent lock but the air locker sounds like the right add on for a rear.

 

[bigredrage]

You may already know this, and I'm not sure I'm understanding you correctly but KDSS is a speed-controlled hydraulic "swaybar" that loosens allowing freer wheel travel under 12mph but tightens (restricting body roll) over 12mph. This is the mechanism of improved handling on-road while still maintaining off-road wheel travel. It's not an acceleration or de-acceleration assistant of any kind.



Again you probably already know this but the Limited isn't a "better" 4wd, just different in that it has a center diff (full time 4wd) vs the other trims part-time engagement system. The Limited is the only 4R trim with the X-REAS system, which would definitely complicate your plan for a suspension lift. Most regularly offroaded Limiteds (and there are quite a few great examples) I see around here have removed the system entirely.



The Magnuson-Moss Act prevents companies from refusing to honor warranty work unless they can prove that your aftermarket parts caused the damage. I suspect that the dealer, depending on their outlook, could still make life very difficult for you if they weren't off-road friendly. Buyer beware on that one.



My own experience has been that there is more true information and applicable knowledge on this forum than I ever got from the Toyota salesman, but they don't care about the things we care about, so no surprise there really. They just want to sell a Camry or a Prius, or hell even a 4Runner. I wouldn't personally want to do the lift at the dealer unless you find one that's reputable and experienced with aftermarket installations and even then they're going to be exponentially more expensive. You're in Mesa, have you spoken with Sonoran Steel or ADS?



There are swaybar quick disconnects out there but none for KDSS that I'm aware of, it'd take some fundamental modifications to the system to get those two to play together nice, so I'd imagine that's more trouble than it's worth but maybe someone with more experience with the disconnects can chime in there. If you go with no KDSS trim (SR5), then yes it's regular old swaybars, springs, and shocks.



I don't think your budget is too far off, but it depends on what you want from the lift and how fast you want to get it all done. If you're going non-rebuildable (Bilstein 5100 / Eibach / Dobinsons / OME) then the shocks and springs will cost you around $800 + installation. If you need rebuildable / resi / bypass, you're talking at least $1800 + installation and the resi / bypass shocks get up around $3k list very quickly. $500 is a good range for UCAs, which you'll likely need at 3" up front. The roof rack will set you back around a grand by the time it's all over from what I've seen. The ARB locker will run you around a grand list, before installation. I do think you'll be running a beast of an SR5 if you're planning on 10k for mods, which it sounds like that's what you're planning on.

Still think you should do more research and reading HERE and definitely test drive the KDSS before you decide. The OR trim might be your best go out the gate if you want a locker and the OEM OR wheels will mount 285s. Good luck man.

that first post is the best kdss explanation I have read, ever. Thanks. So essentially when going under 12mph you dont have a sway bar (to a degree) but over 12mph you do? Thats interesting.

I didnt know what the XREAS system was all about as i never bothered looking at the limited but that makes sense. My offroad knowledge is almost extensively straight axle vehicles so these differential options are new to me. So, instead of a center diff, I only have a rear diff in an sr5? does the front have no power at all, is just supporting cast wheels?

interesting on the warranty. I actually remember reading something like that.

I havent spoken to shops about lifts and etc yet but I do know some people at knuckle busters and 4 wheel parts for when the time comes.

A no KDSS sr5 is likely, thats odd that i didnt find quick disconnects if it does have front swaybars.

what are UCA's? you mention 3" up front so I assume springs. or shocks? I would do a lift like the bilsteins. I'm thinking more like 5k in upgrades but it should still be a beast. A friend brought a stock one down a trail that i told her was unlikely and she ended up showing up at my campsite so I know with a good lift, tires and etc it should be awesome. I dont think the OR or TRD trims are going to fly for me, I want that third row even though itll have limited use. If I am going to drive it for ten years, that option is going to be necessary. if the kdss system isnt on sr5, I;m just not going to bother with it. Ill get quick disconnects or something and just disconnect them when i am on a trail. Im used to that anyway.

The roof rack on that jeep in the photos was custom made by a guy on the national guard station who does welding for their apaches and whatnot. I think i paid $300 said and done. I dont know if it will port to this due to width but if not i bet i can get a decent deal out of him for a rack.

 

[bigredrage]

With the amount that you can put into an SR5 with 3rd row, Perhaps an Icon stage 2 would be a good lift option. easy enough to do yourself. Usually you will only void warranties of parts you modify with dealers... so I wouldn't worry about that.

The rims usually go for $300-$350, though most people post them for $400. I sold my for $350 a few years ago with lugs locally and the tires wen to a fried for $200 with 25K on them. a dealer might upgrade your tires right out of the gate and if they take sticker price for your stock tires, thats the way to go; and don't for get the spare. Same for the rims if you want toyota rims... like the black pro's.

If you get an ARB air locker for the rear, get it installed at an ARB certified installer. There are some seals with in the Locker that can fail and ARB is pretty good with covering parts and service. In the cases I've read about, the locker still engages, but your compressor runs constantly until the repairs are made.

There are manual disconnects available for the 5th gens, but I'd try it on some trails first to see if you find them necessary... every vehicle is different.

a 33" spare will fit where the stock spare is?

 

[CF_Machete]

"Usually you will only void warranties of parts you modify with dealers" I dont quite understand what this comment meant.

My jeep is only front locked so its a permanent lock but the air locker sounds like the right add on for a rear.

So if you lift your truck and your cv joints go prematurely, thats on you. Same with wheel spacers, if your wheel bearings go prematurely, agian on you. I have both and although I'm putting extra wear and tear on my stock parts, they're not going anytime soon.

a 33" spare will fit where the stock spare is?

Yup, I have 285 / 70 / 17 general grabber at2s and a bfg ko2 in the same size in my stock spare location.