Power steering fluid level low. Do I use ATF or power steering fluid?

[JZiggy]

If my gifts are not well received I will simply stop contributing. While I am appreciative of the information I found here and, therefore, willing to give as well as take, I will tolerate no disrespect.

That is a tall order for any internet based forum. Having been active on many I have to say that T4R is about the best there is. And even then the most diplomatic folks endure a poke or two... best to dish it right back out with interest :nerd:

 

[brillo_76]

Oh boy, here we go again. Can't we just agree to disagree and move on? I can completely understand that we all are not going to agree on things. However, getting mad and frustrated isn't going to solve anything.

The brake fluid in non brake systems has been around forever. I personally think its a very bad idea. As when seals are worn swelling them is just a patch and that is what used car lots used to do as they were getting rid of the vehicles. Just like they used to put saw dust in differentials and manual transmissions to quiet the failing bearing down and warn gear noise so they sounded good. However, these are patches not repairs because the bearings are still bad and the seal is still in need of replacement.

Maybe some people don't care and all they are looking into is short term. Then these methods may work for them as long as the Owner of the vehicle does it and knowing the consequences, that is their choice.

However, when used car lots do it, or people trying to sale a used car, its actually fraud as they are misleading the buyers of the condition of the vehicles. :-(

 

[phattyduck]

I don't appreciate being called dumb.

Lau Tsu is credited with the phrase: "A wise man makes few enemies."

That's all well and good, but he never called you dumb. Smart and capable people can have dumb ideas and say dumb things. Also, there are many things that worked well on a car 40 years ago that would ruin a more modern car.

At the very least, I would be concerned about putting a hygroscopic fluid in a system not designed to handle water, other fluid incompatibilities aside.

-Charlie

 

[Cloud9]

There is only Dexron, but there are several versions of Dexron. Dexron VI is backwards compatible and mixable with Dexron IV and Dexron III. Any transmission fluid that says it is compatible with Dexron III will mix fine. The power steering system isn't as picky about fluid as our automatic transmissions are.


Edit: Just to make it clear Dexton/Dextron/etc are just wrongly spelled versions of "Dexron".

Ok, but what I mean is, the cap says Dextron ATF on the cap. Was there a version I? I just want to add some as it's very low and want to add to the factory stuff that's in there. My question was if there is a Dextron I or if it's ok to add some Dextron III in with the Dextron I it seems that came with it... I'd assume the III is compatible with the original Dextron in there?

 

[Riceye]

Ok, but what I mean is, the cap says Dextron ATF on the cap. Was there a version I? I just want to add some as it's very low and want to add to the factory stuff that's in there. My question was if there is a Dextron I or if it's ok to add some Dextron III in with the Dextron I it seems that came with it... I'd assume the III is compatible with the original Dextron in there?

Trying not to sound snarky, but if you are having trouble finding info googling "dextron", and compatibility, it's because you're spelling it wrong.

DEXRON - all the info you need to know

 

[TheDurk]

There is only Dexron, but there are several versions of Dexron. Dexron VI is backwards compatible and mixable with Dexron IV and Dexron III. Any transmission fluid that says it is compatible with Dexron III will mix fine. The power steering system isn't as picky about fluid as our automatic transmissions are.


Edit: Just to make it clear Dexton/Dextron/etc are just wrongly spelled versions of "Dexron".

This is not an open and shut case. It is backwards compatible in GM-built transmissions, which means GM knows it won't hurt THEIR seals. They are saying NOTHING about Toyota seals.

See this:

Techtips - Selecting the Proper Automatic Transmisison Fluid

Dexron VI—the newest GM ATF, it was developed specifically for the new six-speed automatic and is a synthetic blend (meaning it has some conventional base stocks). That transmission has tighter internal tolerances and required a fluid that had higher shear strength that Dexron III.

It was introduced with the 2006 models. GM considers Dexron VI to be "backward compatible," meaning GM recommends it for use in any vehicle that originally used any earlier version of Dexron and that it can be mixed with them. However, GM specifically recommends against using Dexron VI in non-GM made vehicles that used Dexron III as original equipment. It is also the specified ATF in certain non-GM models that use GM transmissions, such as BMW. It is not, however, specified for GM brand vehicles that have non-GM transmissions, as mentioned above, or are imported to the United States.

NOTE: Dexron VI is not recommended for: Pontiac Vibe and Wave, Chevy Aveo, Epica, and Equinox, Saturn ION with CVT or AF23 transmission, Saturn Vue with CVT, AF33 or 5AT transmissions, or 1991–2002 Saturn S. These are vehicles with transmissions that were not manufactured by General Motors.

I have to think P/S systems are not that picky, and I have never owned an auto transmission, but if I did have an auto 3rd gen, I'd stick to Dexron III unless Toyota issues a TSB saying it's ok. I do stick to Dex III in my P/S out of habit.

I would never throw brake fluid in there. That's nasty stuff. My town doesn't even want it in their recycling oil.

 

[Bad Luck]

This is not an open and shut case. It is backwards compatible in GM-built transmissions, which means GM knows it won't hurt THEIR seals. They are saying NOTHING about Toyota seals.

See this:

Techtips - Selecting the Proper Automatic Transmisison Fluid

There's a lot of contradicting information out there regarding this. Here's a link to counter: US_Val_DEXRONVI_MerconLV_ATF_EN.pdf - DocuSign CLM

From GM bulletin #04-07-30-037E
"Some of our customers and/or General Motorsdealerships/Saturn Retailers may have some concerns withDEXRON®-VI and DEXRON®-III Automatic TransmissionFluid (ATF) and transmission warranty claims. DEXRON®-VI isthe only approved fluid for warranty repairs for General Motorstransmissions/transaxles requiring DEXRON®-III and/or priorDEXRON® transmission fluids (except as noted above). Pleaseremember that the clean oil reservoirs of the J-45096 - Flushingand Flow Tester machine should be purged of DEXRON®-III andfilled with DEXRON®-VI for testing, flushing or fillingGeneral Motors transmissions/transaxles (except as notedabove).

DEXRON®-VI can be used in any proportion in pastmodel vehicles equipped with an automatic transmission/transaxle inplace of DEXRON®-III (i.e. topping off the fluid in theevent of a repair or fluid change). DEXRON®-VI is alsocompatible with any former version of DEXRON® for use inautomatic transmissions/transaxles."

GM further claims in that bulletin the following fluid performance of Dexron VI vs Dexron III:

DEXRON®-VI

Fluid Service Change Interval
160,000 km (100,000 mi) For Cars andLight Duty Trucks*
80,000 km (50,000 mi) (Severe Use) ForCars and Light Duty Trucks*


Clutch Friction Stability
Improved 100%

Clutch Durability Due To Fluid
Improved 120%

Oil Film Thickness
Increased 20%

Fluid Oxidation
Improved 100%

Foam/Aeration
Improved 150%

Shear Stability
Improved 200%

With all that being said I use Dexron VI because it's available for free and readily available for me. I'm not saying one is better than the other because I have no grounds to compare. One of the first services I performed on my 4Runner when I bought it was a transmission filter and transmission flush with Dexron VI before adding an external transmission cooler and bypassing the radiator cooler. I've had no issues in the last 5000ish miles since doing it.

Edit: To be clear I'm not saying you're wrong or I'm right. I'm genuinely curious as to the correct answer for what's compatible. Different manufacturer's state different things are compatible. Like Toyota WS isn't Dexron III compatible, but Valvoline Maxlife ATF is compatible with Dexron III and Toyota WS. It's a bit of a cluster

 

[JohnOfTheJungle]

Even if it turned out brake fluid didn’t swell rubber seals (which it does) I would still never throw it into a system that I know is leaking because it’s incredibly corrosive.

Anywhere is leaks on in your engine bay, from your power steering pump, rack lines, and the undercarriage of your vehicle will be heavily rusted wherever brake fluid touches it. Any painted surface the paint will bubble and peel off.

Transmission fluid on the other hand - will actually protect against rust


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[phattyduck]

Ok, but what I mean is, the cap says Dextron ATF on the cap.

All (numbered) Dexron ATFs are compatible. Dexron VI is the current spec, but you can use any compatible fluid in the power steering system (meaning multi-vehicle ATFs that have Dexron compatibility work too).

-Charlie

 

[Cloud9]

All (numbered) Dexron ATFs are compatible. Dexron VI is the current spec, but you can use any compatible fluid in the power steering system (meaning multi-vehicle ATFs that have Dexron compatibility work too).

-Charlie

THANK YOU, that's what I wanted to kno. So I guess if I just want to add some to my factory fluid, I'll use the latest one...

 

[brillo_76]

THANK YOU, that's what I wanted to know. So I guess if I just want to add some to my factory fluid, I'll use the latest one...

That is what I would do and have done in my 3rd gen 4 runners. In the transmission and the Power steering.

The 3rd Gen Transmission are the unique side of the OEM fluids though. Just a tip that you do not want to use T4 or Toyota WS fluid in those as we have tech bulletins advising us to stick with the Dexron fluids II, III and higher specs and including the ATF compatibles.


The oil forums have pages on which fluid is the best and we do not want to go there..

 

[19963.4lsr5]

All (numbered) Dexron ATFs are compatible. Dexron VI is the current spec, but you can use any compatible fluid in the power steering system (meaning multi-vehicle ATFs that have Dexron compatibility work too).



-Charlie

I like using the Pennzoil Multi Vehicle synthetic.


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[The Cold War Kid]

Oh boy, here we go again. Can't we just agree to disagree and move on? I can completely understand that we all are not going to agree on things. However, getting mad and frustrated isn't going to solve anything.

The brake fluid in non brake systems has been around forever. I personally think its a very bad idea. As when seals are worn swelling them is just a patch and that is what used car lots used to do as they were getting rid of the vehicles. Just like they used to put saw dust in differentials and manual transmissions to quiet the failing bearing down and warn gear noise so they sounded good. However, these are patches not repairs because the bearings are still bad and the seal is still in need of replacement.

Maybe some people don't care and all they are looking into is short term. Then these methods may work for them as long as the Owner of the vehicle does it and knowing the consequences, that is their choice.

However, when used car lots do it, or people trying to sale a used car, its actually fraud as they are misleading the buyers of the condition of the vehicles. :-(

What part of "I have done this hundreds of times to my own vehicles" do you not understand? You have, obviously, read a book.

I owned a 12.7 detroit 60 series engine in a 2000 International. She drank 2 gallons of oil in a typical 2000-2500 mile week. I put 2 16 ounce cans of dot 3 brake fluid in three days before a PM (they hold 44 quarts of oil). Then she used NO oil. And that continued for more than three years. Then I lost track of the truck.

I have "repaired" many engine seals, front and rear, by doing this. I have watched engines stop smoking within minutes of adding the brake fluid. Valve seals renewed.

You need to realize the people that write books do so for their benefit, NOT YOURS. They would like to collect a thousand dollars to install a new rear seal, you see... and if it becomes known that a lousy can of brake fluid will do the same thing...

Do what you wanna do. Replace or rebuild your power steering rack. It's only money, what the heck...

 

[brillo_76]

What part of "I have done this hundreds of times to my own vehicles" do you not understand? You have, obviously, read a book.



I owned a 12.7 detroit 60 series engine in a 2000 International. She drank 2 gallons of oil in a typical 2000-2500 mile week. I put 2 16 ounce cans of dot 3 brake fluid in three days before a PM (they hold 44 quarts of oil). Then she used NO oil. And that continued for more than three years. Then I lost track of the truck.



I have "repaired" many engine seals, front and rear, by doing this. I have watched engines stop smoking within minutes of adding the brake fluid. Valve seals renewed.



You need to realize the people that write books do so for their benefit, NOT YOURS. They would like to collect a thousand dollars to install a new rear seal, you see... and if it becomes known that a lousy can of brake fluid will do the same thing...



Do what you wanna do. Replace or rebuild your power steering rack. It's only money, what the heck...

I don't believe in sweeling seals. Period it's my personal opinion and it will never change.


I even stated it's up to the owners what they do to their own rig if you read the entire post.


What is stopping anyone from doing what you suggested?? I am not. Its their rig do as they wish and they will.


And for the record my power steering rack seeps. I just top it off with Dexron compatible atf and use it as rust proofing. I have no plans on changing the seals or replacing it.

My valve covers seep and I use that as engine compartment rust proofing too.


I learned about the sawdust in gear boxes from my uncle who passed away over 15 years ago. I learned about the break fluid swelling of seals from several people many years ago.











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[T4R2014]

I don't appreciate being called dumb.

Lau Tsu is credited with the phrase: "A wise man makes few enemies."

Don't worry about what I am. You can't change that. It would seem that you have some homework that needs doing and would be a more profitable way, to pass your time.

The things I give to this community do not come from books. I am not a "technician" and I have little respect, for them.

Instead, they are what has worked for me in my 55 (or so) year romance with the automobile. They are TRIED AND TRUE ways to do things and solve problems and my gifts to those that read this.

If my gifts are not well received I will simply stop contributing. While I am appreciative of the information I found here and, therefore, willing to give as well as take, I will tolerate no disrespect.

Calling the trick dumb ≠ calling you dumb. That's a pretty big logical jump. Rest assured I do not think you are dumb! I feel like I heard this "tip" before, so I doubt it was you that created it.

 

[pluton]

My favorite Dexron factoid: Until the 1973 reformulation, one of the ingredients was sperm whale oil.

 

[The Cold War Kid]

Calling the trick dumb ≠ calling you dumb. That's a pretty big logical jump. Rest assured I do not think you are dumb! I feel like I heard this "tip" before, so I doubt it was you that created it.

Please be assured I will never tell anyone anything of which I am not certain, OK? I have no idea why anyone would do that.

I appreciate the help and info I have found here. I will respond in kind, when I can

 

[patkelly4370]

Other than emergency situations, I will follow the suggestions of the engineers that designed the various systems whenever possible.

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[Bad Luck]

This is quickly turning into those other threads by that one guy about no one wanting to help him set valve lash or agree with him that his functioning injectors need replaced... I've noticed if you disagree with him you're automatically wrong...

 

[JZiggy]

Close thread??