Pulsating issue

[wfo9]

My appointment is still a week away, but the problem continues to get worse. Before, I could only hear the cyclic hum happen if I had the radio off. Now it's getting loud enough to hear with the radio on and even at higher speeds with more road and wind noise. Goes away when popped into 4WD, so pretty confident this is the issue.

With all that said, Toyota's fix seems like a band aid to me. If my clamshell is crap and allows my my CV to flop all over the place, which places pressure on the needle bearing that it shouldn't have and wears it out, isn't that problem basically unfixed even after they replace the needle bearing with a new one? I mean, I understand the new needle bearing is different from the old one and I guess won't wear out like the old one, but it doesn't change the fact that my clamshell is a floppy turd.

Has me considering going to an ARB at some point. However, I don't want to go through all the crap with a compressor, switch installation, and maintaining the seals and such in an ARB. Is it possible to buy and just install the ARB parts without the locking components, or if not, just install the ARB package and not connect it to a compressor? I don't want the hassle of the air locker but want the upgrade in quality from the ARB parts over my turd clamshell.

That is a pretty crazy approach... ARB for just the better carrier. LOL.. no they don't sell non locker ARB carriers. Also, they are generally trouble free. The issues you hear about were mostly from the original design back in the late 80s early 90s...

If you are in warranty... just keep pushing the issue until it is resolved. Most people end up getting new diff in the end.

 

[DreadPirateMoyer]

That is a pretty crazy approach... ARB for just the better carrier. LOL.. no they don't sell non locker ARB carriers. Also, they are generally trouble free. The issues you hear about were mostly from the original design back in the late 80s early 90s...

If you are in warranty... just keep pushing the issue until it is resolved. Most people end up getting new diff in the end.

Yeah, wasn't sure if it was crazy or not. I guess it is since you can't just get the clamshell. Oh well.

And yeah, I have a feeling it will come to that. Don't see how a different needle bearing actually will solve anything.

Frustrating because part of the reason I avoided the Tacoma was because of this issue. Didn't realize in my naivete back then that it was the same on this end.

 

[DreadPirateMoyer]

[MENTION=143027]Kevlar21[/MENTION], any luck?

Been reading a lot about this on TacomaWorld, and I think I might just go with the ECGS bushing since it seems like the only 100% fix; not even the TSB solution seems to solve it 100% of the time.

Cheaper than going with an ARB.

 

[wfo9]

Yeah, wasn't sure if it was crazy or not. I guess it is since you can't just get the clamshell. Oh well.

And yeah, I have a feeling it will come to that. Don't see how a different needle bearing actually will solve anything.

Frustrating because part of the reason I avoided the Tacoma was because of this issue. Didn't realize in my naivete back then that it was the same on this end.

If they won't give you a diff... Just install the ECGS bushing in there. It will solve it for good.

It's a strange problem in that not every truck makes the noise... The FJs rarely if ever have the problem.. They all have the same diff, but the tacomas and 4runners seem to be more susceptible to it. Each casting will be a little different (and that is part of the problem since there is no machining in that spot)

Like I stated earlier. I have a FJ with almost 140k on the OD. No noise and plenty of play on the driver side CV.

 

[DreadPirateMoyer]

Welp, update on my end at least. Dropped it off at the dealer yesterday, picked 'er up today. Service manager verified it -- it's the needle bearing. They ordered a new one and will be installing it sometime next week.

They have to remove the whole diff for the install, which scares me since who knows what the reinstall will be like, but we'll see. At this point, I'm willing to let Toyota try to fix it just so I can possibly get a new diff if (when) they can't.

What's really frustrating is the TSB replaces the Tacoma needle bearing with an upgraded version with a different part number, but 4Runners get stuck with the current needle bearing, meaning the problem will come back again since the needle bearing isn't the problem itself and the current needle bearing isn't capable of handling the loads.

Oh well. Will let the warranty run its track and if the problem keeps coming back, I'll get the ECGS bushing put in in a few years.

 

[renau001]

Welp, update on my end at least. Dropped it off at the dealer yesterday, picked 'er up today. Service manager verified it -- it's the needle bearing. They ordered a new one and will be installing it sometime next week.

They have to remove the whole diff for the install, which scares me since who knows what the reinstall will be like, but we'll see. At this point, I'm willing to let Toyota try to fix it just so I can possibly get a new diff if (when) they can't.

What's really frustrating is the TSB replaces the Tacoma needle bearing with an upgraded version with a different part number, but 4Runners get stuck with the current needle bearing, meaning the problem will come back again since the needle bearing isn't the problem itself and the current needle bearing isn't capable of handling the loads.

Oh well. Will let the warranty run its track and if the problem keeps coming back, I'll get the ECGS bushing put in in a few years.

They have to remove the whole diff? I thought just the axle on that one side was removed.

 

[DreadPirateMoyer]

You could be right. I may have misinterpreted what the service manager said, though I swore he said something about taking the diff out.

 

[BlackWorksInc]

[MENTION=132221]DreadPirateMoyer[/MENTION]

Needle bearing is in the side, it's easy to get out if you have the right tool. One of our guys does "lifts" (basically RevTek Spacer kits and some ProComp stuff) for new vehicles to make them more appealing for sale and he replaces Tacoma needle bearings on every lift.

Your reasoning isn't entirely wrong, but consider that you're issue is very odd (for the 4Runner) and not entirely common. Out of how many 5th gens sold, how many on the forum do you see burning through needle bearings?

 

[1engineer]

[MENTION=132221]DreadPirateMoyer[/MENTION]

Needle bearing is in the side, it's easy to get out if you have the right tool. One of our guys does "lifts" (basically RevTek Spacer kits and some ProComp stuff) for new vehicles to make them more appealing for sale and he replaces Tacoma needle bearings on every lift.

Your reasoning isn't entirely wrong, but consider that you're issue is very odd (for the 4Runner) and not entirely common. Out of how many 5th gens sold, how many on the forum do you see burning through needle bearings?

I count two.

 

[lalamax]

I count two.

I just replaced mine under warrentee 2 month back at 12000km...


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[brianmfournier]

Just had my bearing replaced also at 12k miles. I had to talk to four different people in service before anyone knew what a needle bearing was.

 

[DreadPirateMoyer]

[MENTION=132221]DreadPirateMoyer[/MENTION]

Needle bearing is in the side, it's easy to get out if you have the right tool. One of our guys does "lifts" (basically RevTek Spacer kits and some ProComp stuff) for new vehicles to make them more appealing for sale and he replaces Tacoma needle bearings on every lift.

Your reasoning isn't entirely wrong, but consider that you're issue is very odd (for the 4Runner) and not entirely common. Out of how many 5th gens sold, how many on the forum do you see burning through needle bearings?

[MENTION=66389]BlackWorksInc[/MENTION]

Yeah, you're right on it being rarer on 4Runners. I'm not sure why we see it less than Tacomas and more than FJs. That being said, I definitely have it. It sounds like I'm hitting a rumble strip for 3 seconds, and then it goes away for 3 seconds, and then comes back, etc. regardless of variables (turning, incline, RPM, brakes, etc.) other than speed (occurs between 35-45 MPH or so); it also goes away when in 4WD. Pretty spot-on symptoms for this issue, right?

Not challenging you or arguing, just making sure I understand your post: are you saying that the replacement is fairly routine if my dealership has the right parts and I shouldn't be worried? If so, that's good to know. They're a very big dealership and the service manager knew instantly what it was and said they've done a lot of these replacements on Tacoms and 4Runners too, so they probably do have the right tools. Hopefully my worries are misplaced then if that's your message, and good to know.

What does tee me off a little is that we get the same crummy bearing that is currently failing, whereas Tacomas get a new, upgraded one. I wonder why that is. Makes me feel like the problem is just going to come back regardless.

EDIT: I'd really like to do the ECGS bushing install now, but I think it's just best to let Toyota handle it both for finances and in case something else goes wrong (or the problem persists) so they can't blame it on the bushing and deny coverage. I'll just save the ECGS bushing for post-warranty at this point.

 

[renau001]

[MENTION=66389]BlackWorksInc[/MENTION]

Yeah, you're right on it being rarer on 4Runners. I'm not sure why we see it less than Tacomas and more than FJs. That being said, I definitely have it. It sounds like I'm hitting a rumble strip for 3 seconds, and then it goes away for 3 seconds, and then comes back, etc. regardless of variables (turning, incline, RPM, brakes, etc.) other than speed (occurs between 35-45 MPH or so); it also goes away when in 4WD. Pretty spot-on symptoms for this issue, right?

Not challenging you or arguing, just making sure I understand your post: are you saying that the replacement is fairly routine if my dealership has the right parts and I shouldn't be worried? If so, that's good to know. They're a very big dealership and the service manager knew instantly what it was and said they've done a lot of these replacements on Tacoms and 4Runners too, so they probably do have the right tools. Hopefully my worries are misplaced then if that's your message, and good to know.

What does tee me off a little is that we get the same crummy bearing that is currently failing, whereas Tacomas get a new, upgraded one. I wonder why that is. Makes me feel like the problem is just going to come back regardless.

EDIT: I'd really like to do the ECGS bushing install now, but I think it's just best to let Toyota handle it both for finances and in case something else goes wrong (or the problem persists) so they can't blame it on the bushing and deny coverage. I'll just save the ECGS bushing for post-warranty at this point.

Let us know how it goes. I have the same issue and need to get it done. But I have been putting it off because it is not as noticeable as it has warmed up. And I dont want to take it in and have them say they can't hear it. Seems like most the people that have this occurring on the 4Runner are 2016s for whatever reason

 

[DreadPirateMoyer]

Let us know how it goes. I have the same issue and need to get it done. But I have been putting it off because it is not as noticeable as it has warmed up. And I dont want to take it in and have them say they can't hear it. Seems like most the people that have this occurring on the 4Runner are 2016s for whatever reason

Yup, 2016 here as well. You're right in that everyone talking about it seems to be new with low mileage. I wonder what's up.

Will let you know how it goes.

 

[wfo9]

Yup, 2016 here as well. You're right in that everyone talking about it seems to be new with low mileage. I wonder what's up.

Will let you know how it goes.

My guess is the casting... They simply have produced bad batches at times. The needle bearings are a symptom of another problem in the mfg process.

The bushing is another solution.

 

[DreadPirateMoyer]

My guess is the casting... They simply have produced bad batches at times. The needle bearings are a symptom of another problem in the mfg process.

The bushing is another solution.

Agreed. If this turns out to be a trend, probably a bad batch. Hopefully I can get a new diff out of this if true.

 

[lalamax]

Any one got ECGS busing installation write ups? I might just get one and fix it now...


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[renau001]

Any one got ECGS busing installation write ups? I might just get one and fix it now...


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The company has a video on their website and a writeup with it I think.

 

[HeartGuy]

My 2017 has a "wump wump wump" feeling in the front end between 55-65mph. I always figured it was the kO2's.

 

[wfo9]

My 2017 has a "wump wump wump" feeling in the front end between 55-65mph. I always figured it was the kO2's.

I think some people may be noticing things that are not actually the needle bearing problem. The key to the needle bearing is usually that the sound/vibration goes away in 4Hi.

Try that and if it eliminates the issue, take it in...