Puzzled

[weaver12872]

I am at a loss I've never experienced this before when I pull the dome light fuse and try to replace it my 98 4runner will start. I was replacing the battery cables and the minute I put the positive cable on it tried to start.

I have no dome lights,radio or door locks working. I tried to replace the dome light fuse because it was blown but I'm unable to do that since it starts the vehicle when I replace it.

I really have no idea what could be the problem has anyone experienced this before?

I've checked all the fuses traced wires and checked the relays. I really don't know what else to check.

 

[Myrunr2010]

Like, no key in the ignition or anything. Hook the battery back up with a new fuse and it starts? If you leave it on will it actually start or does it just keep trying to? If you leave the fuse out will it start and run normal?

 

[weaver12872]

No Key in the ignition it doesn't actually start but keeps trying to turn over so I cant put a new fuse in.
I have to leave the fuse out but it will start and run like normal without the dome fuse in but the only thing that works inside is the dash lights everything else is out.

I cant figure out why the dome fuse would be engaging the starter.

 

[TheDurk]

No Key in the ignition it doesn't actually start but keeps trying to turn over so I cant put a new fuse in.
I have to leave the fuse out but it will start and run like normal without the dome fuse in but the only thing that works inside is the dash lights everything else is out.

I cant figure out why the dome fuse would be engaging the starter.

Try this for me, please. What happens if you try and replace the fuse with the shift selector in "D"?

Do you have an alarm or add-on disable system?

The DOME fuse is not part of the Starter circuit so this will take some testing. How did you 'check' the relays? Do you have a DMM? Test light?

My first suspect would be the connection of your new positive cable in the fuse box. It may be touching some wire or contact it shouldn't. I know you said you checked it, but if it were me I'd take it off and redo it, looking carefully at everything around.

 

[Myrunr2010]

My old f150 had a similar (but different) issue. The starter solenoid would stick open after trying to start it, you could take the key out of the ignition and the starter would still be spinning. It wouldn't do it unless you had tried to start it though...

 

[weaver12872]

Try this for me, please. What happens if you try and replace the fuse with the shift selector in "D"?

Do you have an alarm or add-on disable system?

The DOME fuse is not part of the Starter circuit so this will take some testing. How did you 'check' the relays? Do you have a DMM? Test light?

My first suspect would be the connection of your new positive cable in the fuse box. It may be touching some wire or contact it shouldn't. I know you said you checked it, but if it were me I'd take it off and redo it, looking carefully at everything around.

yes there is an alarm. I do have a test light that I used to check that the relays were getting power. Ill ill check the positive cable tomorrow if I get rained out from work and let you know. Thanks

 

[BlackWorksInc]

yes there is an alarm. I do have a test light that I used to check that the relays were getting power. Ill ill check the positive cable tomorrow if I get rained out from work and let you know. Thanks

Unplug the alarm unit (by the way is this an RS3000 or aftermarket unit?) and bypass the ignition switch taps and see if the issue persists, chances are the alarm unit's relay and/or control unit has failed.

 

[TheDurk]

yes there is an alarm. I do have a test light that I used to check that the relays were getting power. Ill ill check the positive cable tomorrow if I get rained out from work and let you know. Thanks

Well, the fail that needs to be checked is at the STA relay. Is the relay closed or open with the key in run position? If closed, which it shouldn't be, is the relay coil receiving both power and ground (the ON signal) or is the relay frozen closed on its own?

If you don't know how to do that, start by removing the starter relay, replacing the DOME fuse, and see if it cranks.

 

[Myrunr2010]

You ever figure anything out weaver?

 

[weaver12872]

today is the first chance I've had to look at it. I pulled the starter relay and put the dome fuse in everything works but it wont start with the key.

I put another relay in that I had and it did the same thing tries to start with the dome fuse and nothing inside but the dash lights work.

I'm going to go and take the fuse box out and recheck the wiring in it. I was just wondering could it be a bad starter ?

 

[TheDurk]

today is the first chance I've had to look at it. I pulled the starter relay and put the dome fuse in everything works but it wont start with the key.

I put another relay in that I had and it did the same thing tries to start with the dome fuse and nothing inside but the dash lights work.

I'm going to go and take the fuse box out and recheck the wiring in it. I was just wondering could it be a bad starter ?

Not a bad starter. You have a short from the DOME circuit to the connection that goes from Pin 3 of the STARTER relay to the small lug on the starter. (We know this since the short is present even with the relay removed--that's why I asked you do that.) It is either in the fuse box itself, or along the black/white wire that goes through the wire harness (No.2 Engine Wire) that goes from the fuse box down into the engine. There are no other components between the relay and the starter lug to fail--it's just a short, plain and simple. My guess is it's in the fuse box.

You can prove that by opening the EA1 connector to the No.2 Engine Wire close to the fuse box, then replacing the dome fuse. If the starter does not crank, short is in the small distance between the connector and the relay. If it does, the short is in the harness between the connector and the starter. The EA1 is a grey connector with four wires, one of which is the black/white starter signal wire at Pin 3.

 

[IBallEngineer]

Not a bad starter. You have a short from the DOME circuit to the connection that goes from Pin 3 of the STARTER relay to the small lug on the starter. (We know this since the short is present even with the relay removed--that's why I asked you do that.) It is either in the fuse box itself, or along the black/white wire that goes through the wire harness (No.2 Engine Wire) that goes from the fuse box down into the engine. There are no other components between the relay and the starter lug to fail--it's just a short, plain and simple. My guess is it's in the fuse box.

You can prove that by opening the EA1 connector to the No.2 Engine Wire close to the fuse box, then replacing the dome fuse. If the starter does not crank, short is in the small distance between the connector and the relay. If it does, the short is in the harness between the connector and the starter. The EA1 is a grey connector with four wires, one of which is the black/white starter signal wire at Pin 3.

I've not followed this all the way through, but didn't the OP say


I pulled the starter relay and put the dome fuse in everything works but it wont start with the key.

Am I missing something? I was thinking with the relay pulled he did NOT have self cranking, or am I not following correctly.
I'm hoping this is educational to more than just the OP so could you dumb it down a little? [MENTION=10169]TheDurk[/MENTION]

I know, I ask too much...

:fencing:

 

[TheDurk]

I've not followed this all the way through, but didn't the OP say


I pulled the starter relay and put the dome fuse in everything works but it wont start with the key.

Am I missing something? I was thinking with the relay pulled he did NOT have self cranking, or am I not following correctly.
I'm hoping this is educational to more than just the OP so could you dumb it down a little? [MENTION=10169]TheDurk[/MENTION]

I know, I ask too much...

:fencing:

Wait, I guess I misread that. OOPS. That's what I get for watching baseball and posting at the same time. So we better go back the other way. Leave the relay in and open the IG1 connector in the left kick panel. That's a big grey 26 pin connector. See if it self-cranks then.

Or maybe I should sit back and eat popcorn. Feel free to make a suggestion, Jaime.

 

[IBallEngineer]

Wait, I guess I misread that. OOPS. That's what I get for watching baseball and posting at the same time. So we better go back the other way. Leave the relay in and open the IG1 connector in the left kick panel. That's a big grey 26 pin connector. See if it self-cranks then.

Or maybe I should sit back and eat popcorn. Feel free to make a suggestion, Jaime.

Oh, but that would require actual thought on my part.

Let's check that connector and see. I'm inclined to think the crossover is happening at the center j/b, but I have no reason for that other than power for both circuits are close to each other. So let's eliminate sections as you are doing.

opcorn:

 

[weaver12872]

ok so here is what I did and I'm really puzzled now I pulled the black and white wire from the starter put the dome fuse in and it didn't blow but the fuel pump stayed running all the interior lights and locks worked except the radio was on but had no sound the key was in the on position it didn't try to crank over and even once I turned the key off the fuel pump continued to run.

Ill try some of the stuff you guys have suggested tomorrow once I get off work and let you know how it goes. Thanks

 

[TheDurk]

ok so here is what I did and I'm really puzzled now I pulled the black and white wire from the starter put the dome fuse in and it didn't blow but the fuel pump stayed running all the interior lights and locks worked except the radio was on but had no sound the key was in the on position it didn't try to crank over and even once I turned the key off the fuel pump continued to run.

Ill try some of the stuff you guys have suggested tomorrow once I get off work and let you know how it goes. Thanks

Just so you know, the fuel pump should NOT run with the key on unless either a) the starter is cranking or b) the engine is running. In other words, the same thing that made the starter crank is making the pump run, except the starter is disconnected now.

Did you ever do the test with the shift in "D" that I asked for way back when? That would now be even more useful, as now the fault would appear to be between the key and the ECM. If it does not self-crank in "D" with the DOME fuse in, that pretty much says [MENTION=102597]IBallEngineer[/MENTION] was right and the issue is in the Center J/B or it's the key switch. Or if the starter is still disconnected, just put it in "D" and see if that stops the fuel pump.

 

[slapdappy]

yes there is an alarm.

remote start feature?

 

[Yota3one19]

I'm having a similar issue.

Just wondering if you ever figured out what the issue was? I have an 04 V6 sport edition. At first I could turn the key and had power to everything but wouldn't start. No crank, No clicking. I changed the starter relay and now when I connect the positive terminal it tries to start without the key in the ignition. So confused.

 

[Bad Luck]

Just wondering if you ever figured out what the issue was? I have an 04 V6 sport edition. At first I could turn the key and had power to everything but wouldn't start. No crank, No clicking. I changed the starter relay and now when I connect the positive terminal it tries to start without the key in the ignition. So confused.

You might have better luck in the 4th gen section: https://www.toyota-4runner.org/4th-gen-t4rs/
You can also try searching the 4th gen section with this: https://www.google.com/search?newwindow=1&rlz=1C1QJDB_enUS784US793&sxsrf=ALeKk01TOMG3tU5KEywpJC97_lSbWs5P1g%3A1615905182548&ei=nsFQYIL1IJjWtAaD2ryQBQ&q=site%3Ahttps%3A%2F%2Fwww.toyota-4runner.org%2F4th-gen-t4rs%2F+&oq=site%3Ahttps%3A%2F%2Fwww.toyota-4runner.org%2F4th-gen-t4rs%2F+&gs_lcp=Cgdnd3Mtd2l6EANQlRtY0CZgmC1oAXAAeACAATiIAZ8BkgEBM5gBAKABAqABAaoBB2d3cy13aXrAAQE&sclient=gws-wiz&ved=0ahUKEwiCvJXzg7XvAhUYK80KHQMtD1IQ4dUDCA0&uact=5
Good luck!