econhonda
New member
They look just like OEM to me except for the zerk capability. I've only had them for maybe 3,000 miles so my experience really isn't very telling, but so far they seem to be doing the trick.
Quality of napa lbj's
- Thread starter WHORERUNNER
- Start date
They look just like OEM to me except for the zerk capability. I've only had them for maybe 3,000 miles so my experience really isn't very telling, but so far they seem to be doing the trick.
blcktpgsr
New member
The NAPA LBJ's I got came pre-fitted with the zerks from the manufacturer. cuz I don't remember buying and installing them myself.
econhonda
New member
Hmm... Lucky! Are your LBJ's the 555 brand?
cj80cruiser
Senior Member
I'm surprised no one commented on these. They look like a pretty nice quality part but I've never used Raybestos before. Are there other protects high quality?
1996 TOYOTA 4RUNNER LIMITED 3.4L 3378cc V6 MFI (N) [5VZFE] DOHC
Suspension : Ball JointRelated Parts
RAYBESTOS Part # 5051299 Professional Grade
Front Suspension; Left Lower
$61.79 $61.79
Subtotal $61.79
theizzardking
New member
dam, i'm always having to be that guy lately.....
may i remind you guys of what happens when these fail....
do you think the napa warrenty will cover all of that and potentially the costs that could have incurred if that was really bad? hospital and all of the rest?
i think to me at least, that this is one of those items not to f' with, spend the extra $100 total and not be the Guinea pig....there are very few parts on our trucks that can have such disastrous results if it fails....
i say that but i'm still on the fence about treadwrights with the same sort of mind set......anyways just something to think about, i for one won't be using anything other then oem for this item, i would rather have a Chinese made airbag then a napa lbj, lol
(the Chinese don't use airbags, population control,j/k, lol)
may i remind you guys of what happens when these fail....
do you think the napa warrenty will cover all of that and potentially the costs that could have incurred if that was really bad? hospital and all of the rest?
i think to me at least, that this is one of those items not to f' with, spend the extra $100 total and not be the Guinea pig....there are very few parts on our trucks that can have such disastrous results if it fails....
i say that but i'm still on the fence about treadwrights with the same sort of mind set......anyways just something to think about, i for one won't be using anything other then oem for this item, i would rather have a Chinese made airbag then a napa lbj, lol
(the Chinese don't use airbags, population control,j/k, lol)
PitbullRescuer
New member
^while I generally agree with you (especially after seeing what happened to you) the Toyota OEM parts are made by Altrom, same company that makes the NAPA ones. Kind of like how Purolator makes OEM Toyota filters. I would feel every bit as safe using the Altrom product that NAPA sells as I would using the Altrom product that Toyota sells for a higher price. You and others may not agree and that's fine but I'll run them on mine.
theizzardking
New member
if that's the case then i'd be inclined to agree with you, but bear in mind that just because it's made at the same plant doesn't mean it's the same product, materials,quality assurance,finishing processes and even tooling can all make a big difference in the out come of a part or if you happen to get a good one, if you catch my drift, i really couldn't say without having oem and napa both in my hands to compare, the post above is a gut reaction to which part we're talking about and the napa brand in general.
good example. i bought the seki (or whatever) "555" tie rod ends, thinking they are the same company that makes the oem ones so they much be as good, well at first glance they were but the whole arm of the rod rusted within weeks, sure it's surface rust but the oem ones still look great on the surface @ 195k and 12 years later, so obviously it's not the same part, either it's not got the extra finishing on it or it's a different material all together, who knows ....
but yes, if it's indeed the same "exact" part then it's stupid to pay for the brand name, i'm just saying don't go cheap on this part here, get the "right" part not the "cheap" part ,whoever that maybe from.
thanks for pointing that out though, it does make me more inclined to consider the napa part upon further inspection.
econhonda
New member
# of Napa LBJ's that have failed on our 4runners? Not many (if any)
# of Toyota LBJ's that have failed on our 4runners? Many
Ok, obviously the example above just shows how statistics can be used to promote, practically, any opinion. While I am not suggesting that Napa's are better than OEM LBJ's, where is the evidence that they aren't equal? Unless someone can prove to me that NAPA LBJ's are actually more inclined to fail than OEM, then I will continue to sleep soundly with them on my 4runner.
# of Toyota LBJ's that have failed on our 4runners? Many
Ok, obviously the example above just shows how statistics can be used to promote, practically, any opinion. While I am not suggesting that Napa's are better than OEM LBJ's, where is the evidence that they aren't equal? Unless someone can prove to me that NAPA LBJ's are actually more inclined to fail than OEM, then I will continue to sleep soundly with them on my 4runner.
theizzardking
New member
the evidence so far is lack of a proper data sample, meaning that even just in your case alone ,you can't come to a conclusion until you've driven at least an equal amount of miles on the napa ones, and like i said in the above post for all i know the napa ones could in fact be exact spec oem ones just re-badged, or they could not be, i've never seen one so i don't know, i would want to fully check one out first or if i had a little extra money in my pocket just buy oem and forget about it, point is in reguards to your post above, i can;t prove the napa ones are not as good and you can't prove they are as good at this point, lack of evidence is not proof and conversely lack of proof is not evidence for debate. right now, without trying to sound like a douche we're "argumentum ad ignorantiam" or arguing from ignorance.
Argument from ignorance - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
neither one of us can be sure at this point and are arguing something we don't really believe in or know the answer to, haha
anyways, like i said above though, don;t care if it's the same part built to the same spec from the same materials, then who cares what name is on the box, i'm just not sure that's 100% the case yet, until i see the part for myself and compare against an oem one.
WHORERUNNER
New member
looks like the raybestos is being sold under the napa premium name. So the the video that I posted are basically napa premiums. I'm still on the fence on which ones I should get. If I get the napas they might end up costing me a few more bucks. Money isn't the issue, quality is.
theizzardking
New member
right and since we're on teh topic, whatever happened with this thread?
http://www.toyota-4runner.org/3rd-gen-t4rs/92427-ball-joints-3.html
anyone use the taco lbjs and tre's?
http://www.toyota-4runner.org/3rd-gen-t4rs/92427-ball-joints-3.html
anyone use the taco lbjs and tre's?
econhonda
New member
Ok so I guess the sarcasm of my "analysis" didn't translate. I'm aware of the sample size issue along with the inability to hold all other variables constant in order to conclusively determine which LBJ is, in fact, the better one. I was just joking a little...
As for the actual issue here, it's not about who is right or wrong regarding the quality of OEM LBJ's vs. Napa ones. It's that your first post in this thread came off as if you did in fact know this, when you, as you just admitted, don't.
To support your position, you asked if Napa would cover the costs of a failure including all associated damages. However, couldn't one ask the same question about OEM replacements? I actually believe you'd have better chances getting some cash out of Napa than you would from Toyota.
I don't really care, nor do I want to spend more time arguing from ignorance. I guess I just get a little testy when people are so quick to condemn a new or alternative method, without offering any reason other than it's not what has done before. It might also be that I'm running treadwrights too! 17,000 miles and going strong!
theizzardking
New member
oh, lol, i thought i admitted that in my second post......meh whatever, haha i think we're just on different wave lengths to day friend, lol
SCRunner12
New member
I'm personally going to go with the OEM lbj's because they are only $10-20 more expensive than the Napa's. We know the OEM ones will go at least 200k, so the price difference is not a big difference to me. Also I can bet 75-80% of the people on this site will sell their 3rd gen before they get to any possible issue with their new LBJ's. The lifetime warranty is cool, but I shouldn't see a reason to a lbj within 100k or about 6-7 years (based on my driving mileage.) Obviously some people drive more miles or hold onto cars forever, but I know I will be buying a 4 door 2nd gen Tacoma in the next 5 years and possibly selling the 4runner or keeping it.
bikerjosh
New member
Yep, I installed the taco lbj's and tre's when I installed my LR UCAs. Only have about 1000 miles on them, but 200 of those were off road with some high speed full compression landings :hiding:, flexing and some crawling.
So far, so good.-josh
theizzardking
New member
how are the upper control arms? i was checking into those because i can't get the caster set right on my stockers with the lift and tires i'm running, i'm like 1-.5 degrees out on both sides.
i'm curious what made you decide to do the UCA's?, seems the only real reason people state is better tire clearance....but for that price i was thinking there's got to be more to it then tire clearance.....
theizzardking
New member
so from looking at that video here's the differences i got.
standard has
metal ball housing
self cleaning design
stronger spring required due to tolerance stack up and positioning of the ball in joint
the reybestos
graphite ball housing
sealed design
less tolerance stack up but a spring is still required.
i'm just wondering what the likely hood of the graphite block cracking is and the chances that a rock,twig,branch what have you may tear the boot and basically destroy the "sealed system" design
i mean off the bat it sounds great, but i just wonder if it's really what it's cracked up to be, you know.
the sealed system is great if it stays sealed, and sealed can mean so many things, am i going to have to worry about sitting in deep flowing water for too long? what if i snag a branch?
also if something does get in there your fubar'd graphite will just scratch away like it was nothing, sure it's fine if it's graphite on graphite like they say in the video but it's another thing if it's small particles of sand and iron from the road grinding around in there and not being removed, i would wager to guess that the tolerance stack up doesn't only come from having a two piece design but also from the shape to give the standard ball joint it's self cleaning design.
like i said, i really don't know wneough about the other ones to really put my foot down, and the new design might work better but without having both in my hand and being able to play with them both for a few days i would have to still go with the stockers, i'm going to napa tomorrow and having a look to compare as i'll be doing this work sooner then later, i got 230k on my stock ball joints and my steering is really sloppy after a bunch of things being replaced.
brian2sun
Elite Member
I can't say for sure that Napas are as good of quality as OEMs. But I figured I'd say a few things that made the decision easy for me to buy the Napas..
Neither Toyota nor Napa will cover all the other damage caused by a failed LBJ - only the LBJs themselves. So they are equal there.
Even if (and that's a big IF) the quality of the Napas isn't as good as OEM, we know the OEMs aren't worth a crap either because we've all seen countless threads on the OEMs failing. That makes the OEMs sub-par quality to me. Maybe the Napas are too, but I really don't understand the loyalty to OEM in this case when they are obviously not so great either.
I think it's safe to say that even if the Napas aren't quite as good as the OEMs (which I still believe they are), the Napas will definitely last 2-3 years without failure under normal circumstances. It literally takes me 15-20 minutes per side to change my LBJs. The thing that Napa has over the OEMs is the lifetime warranty. I have no problem spending less than an hour every few years to replace them for free! Can't do that with the OEMs. Id rather run a fresh set of Napas every couple years than risk another 10 years on OEM LBJs that are widely known to fail.
Neither Toyota nor Napa will cover all the other damage caused by a failed LBJ - only the LBJs themselves. So they are equal there.
Even if (and that's a big IF) the quality of the Napas isn't as good as OEM, we know the OEMs aren't worth a crap either because we've all seen countless threads on the OEMs failing. That makes the OEMs sub-par quality to me. Maybe the Napas are too, but I really don't understand the loyalty to OEM in this case when they are obviously not so great either.
I think it's safe to say that even if the Napas aren't quite as good as the OEMs (which I still believe they are), the Napas will definitely last 2-3 years without failure under normal circumstances. It literally takes me 15-20 minutes per side to change my LBJs. The thing that Napa has over the OEMs is the lifetime warranty. I have no problem spending less than an hour every few years to replace them for free! Can't do that with the OEMs. Id rather run a fresh set of Napas every couple years than risk another 10 years on OEM LBJs that are widely known to fail.
IanB
New member
How do you exchange used, not failed, LBJ's for new under warranty? If you are waiting for them to fail, then you have the resultant damages to pay for yourself (fenders, axles, brake lines, etc), and you'd be better off buying new yourself pre-failure than waiting for a failure so you can warranty the part. In my experience, preventative maintenance is not grounds for a warranty exchange on a used auto part with a lifetime warranty.
econhonda
New member
I agree with Brian. Wouldn't a worn LBJ qualify for replacement under the lifetime warranty? If you detect play in the joint, I would think that a replacement under their warranty is justified. If it seems tight and in good shape, then I don't think one would be, nor do I think the good folks at Napa would be particularly enthused about replacing a perfectly good joint.
