question about mechanics

[bama16]

I've always worked on my own cars, so I don't run into mechanics very often. We recently installed a toytec boss lift on my dad's 4runner. It needed an alignment afterwards, so he took it to Big-O. Big-O said the jam nuts were frozen, and that he needed new outer tie rods. No heat, no penetrating oil...just rounded them off...my dad was there and watched (I got them loose but that's another issue).Total charge was right at ~$580. The shop was going to replace with moog which retail at napa for $35. Estimate charge was $179 PER OUTER TIE ROD. He said he would need to think and he said the Big-O tech told him he wasn't trying to "get him" on the replacement. Is 5x retail the standard in the industry? I told him I would replace the inners and outers for him since we didn't know when they were last done, and the parts are pretty inexpensive. Total job wasn't took bad, and took about 1.5 hours.

We replaced inners and outers on saturday, and he took it to another shop for alignment this morning. Shop tells him the inner tie rod is bad, and the jam nut keeps spinning. I couldn't wrap my head around this, and thought maybe the threads stripped, or possible the nut pitch or size was a hair off. He drove it back to my house, and i placed a wrench on the inner tie rod and jam nut and tightened the jam nut..no issue. The shop also removed the factory metal clip on the boot and replaced with zip ties. We called the shop, and i spoke with the tech. I told him that i placed a wrench on the inner tie rod and jam and tightened and had no issues. He said yeah, if you hold the inner and tighten, then it would tighten, but he said he should be able to get the jam nut against the inner and tighten without the inner tie rod rotating. He said that the inner should stop moving, and since it didn't it had to be broken. I asked nicely, like i didn't understand, how he would ever get a full thread rotation for adjustment if the inner joint couldn't spin in a full 360. He told me he's been an alignment tech for 27 years, and he shouldn't have to place a wrench on the inner tie rod in order to tighten the jam against it.

I'm honestly shocked by the response from these two shops, and has further diminished my faith in mechanics. Is this typical, or did we somehow manage to find two subpar mechanics?

 

[gamefreakgc]

Well, you are going to big name shop which is usually just asking for trouble. Last time I went to a big name shop for a tune-up, they didn't even do half the work they said they would. They just charged me for changing the spark plugs. That was 7 years ago and since then I've done almost all the work myself, just like you.

Independent shops tend to be more honest, but not all. You just got lucky and found TWO bad apples in a row. Sorry for the loss of money/time.

 

[Tyler James Inc]

Wow, that's really disheartening. What happened to the days when people took pride in their work, had morals, values, and just wanted to make an honest living?
I'm not naive; I know scammers have been around since the beginning of time. But it's definitely getting worse.
I am a commercial electrician, and I see it everyday. The level of pride guys' take in their work has gone down fast and great. We're supposed to be craftsman, but I'm seeing less and less of that, and more hack jobs.
I've had one of my guys tell me several times he's gonna quit on me, 'cause he's sick of having to come behind all these other guys doing hack job work- and then be associated with the company that did the work. I don't blame him one bit. And I'm not talking a little shop, I'm talking one of the biggest shops on the west coast.
One of the big issues is that the economy is so good right now, we have more work than we have workers to man the jobs. We're getting sub-par workers, but can't lay them off, 'cause we need the help!
I'm not sure if that's the case with the mechanic industry right now or not, but I'd be willing to bet it is.

 

[curryT4R]

It really is a gamble. As a former mechanic, I can say I never told a customer something was "broken" just to make extra money. My thing was, be honest with the customers and they will keep coming back to you and spend more money. Hell, I would even tell them something was starting to seep a little bit, but it could wait a while before it really needs attention, and they would appreciate that because they wouldn't really have the funds to do it right then anyways, and they felt more at ease.

You can find the shadiest people at big dealers or small mom and pop shops. But you can equally find some of the best, most honest people as well.

I'm sorry you found two bad apples! They give the industry a bad name.

 

[spartacus]

thanks for posting. I have to do my itre and will stay away from big o.

 

[yella]

Wow, that's really disheartening. What happened to the days when people took pride in their work, had morals, values, and just wanted to make an honest living?
I'm not naive; I know scammers have been around since the beginning of time. But it's definitely getting worse.
I am a commercial electrician, and I see it everyday. The level of pride guys' take in their work has gone down fast and great. We're supposed to be craftsman, but I'm seeing less and less of that, and more hack jobs.
I've had one of my guys tell me several times he's gonna quit on me, 'cause he's sick of having to come behind all these other guys doing hack job work- and then be associated with the company that did the work. I don't blame him one bit. And I'm not talking a little shop, I'm talking one of the biggest shops on the west coast.
One of the big issues is that the economy is so good right now, we have more work than we have workers to man the jobs. We're getting sub-par workers, but can't lay them off, 'cause we need the help!
I'm not sure if that's the case with the mechanic industry right now or not, but I'd be willing to bet it is.

Preaching to the choir here. Also an Electrician. I run a service truck and I go through guys like nothing. Hard to find anyone who knows anything, let alone who WANTS to learn or shows much of a work ethic. It's terrible to see.

Also, my name is Tyler.

 

[aa.allen]

Unfortunately I have been there twice in the last 13 months.

Last July I put new pads and rotors on my wife’s Expedition one of the rotors was a little hard to get on and off. we had, had a blow out on that tire a couple of months before so I took the Expedition in for an alignment the day after I did the brakes at a regional chain. When I went to pick up the truck and pay for the alignment the service writer said the technician recommended brakes all the way around. He stated the pads had less than 25% left. My response was man my wife sure is hard on brakes. I just replaced all 4 pads and rotors yesterday afternoon. The service writer turned white as a sheet and went and got the tech who I questioned about my 25% pad life left on 24 hour old pads. He talked in circles and did a lot of back peddling. I wound up getting a call from a manager asking for forgiveness and offering discounts as well as saying that tech isn’ t such a bad guy and had worked for them for a longtime.

A few months later my 4Runner needed an alignment and I wasn’t going back to the other place so I took it to a franchise Goodyear tire and auto that my mother in law swears by. I went to go pick up the Runner that day after work and was met with a $1200 estimate for tie rod ends and some other front end work I did not feel was needed. They said they would not do the alignment until I had this work done. I had a coworker who was a mechanic for about 20 years look at it. He said he didn’t see anything needed other than an alignment. I wound up calling around town and finally settled on a small Mom and pop shop I pass everyday on the way to work that always seemed to have plenty of work.

They did the alignment and said the only problem was the tie rod end nuts were rusty and very hard to get off. $80 later I was back on the road.

 

[LittleCaesar]

I once had an experience like that years ago at a Firestone. For my dad’s truck they gave him a quote of $1800 for inner and outer tie rods and ball joints. The Moog pieces were inflated by 500% over list prices.

Honestly, when you get a quote like that, it means they don’t want to perform the work so look for a real mechanic elsewhere.

 

[theesotericone]

What happened to the days when people took pride in their work, had morals, values, and just wanted to make an honest living?

I've had one of my guys tell me several times he's gonna quit on me, 'cause he's sick of having to come behind all these other guys doing hack job work- and then be associated with the company that did the work. I don't blame him one bit. And I'm not talking a little shop, I'm talking one of the biggest shops on the west coast.

Some people still do take pride in what they do. Those are the guys you hang onto at all cost.

Like that guy above. Don't let him quit. Give him a raise. Give him a more supervisory position.

I'm that guy. I get called to fix our other carpenters hack jobs all the time. I hate it. No one ever gets called back to fix my work so why should I fix there's? Pride in what I do and who I do it for is why. If my boss wasn't a quality guy with respectable skills I'd have walked away a long time ago. Instead I make sure his company name, along with my own, stays in good standing.

 

[Kyngfish]

Luckily most of the people on this board have taken the time to do their own wrenching. With the proper tools pretty much anyone can do anything short of machine work up to and including a full engine rebuild.

I do feel for mechanics though. No mechanic I know is getting rich from this stuff. I think the market doesn’t put appropriate value on their work. Some use creative ways to make more money and some cut corners.

 

[apohl17]

Wow, that is just sad. Sometimes I wonder what the world would be like if everyone had access to endless knowledge and intuition- oh wait a second. There is DIY enough info here to do everything from simply changing a filter to swapping in a V8 with DT headers and a TRD supercharger. I get it, they have to deal with lots of vehicles, but something as straight forward as an OTRE on an IFS front end is pretty hard to mess up.

There's no shame in keeping a computer open at the shop to reference how-to's on specific vehicles, as we all would rather have the shop do it the right vs. the wrong way...

 

[pauldub]

It's stories like this that keep me doing my own alignment and everything else.

 

[mtbtim]

It was a bad experience at my local Toyota dealer that inspired me to do more of my own automotive work and basically led into me starting the "Timmy the Toolman" YouTube channel with [MENTION=102606]infamousRNR[/MENTION]. There are honest shops and good mechanics out there but there's also a lot of dishonest shops and hack mechanics as well. And, even when you do find a good shop, labor rates are really expensive. I don't make $100-150/hour and I can find my parts much more affordable online. So, since I'm willing to turn a wrench, I can save myself tons of money and also guarantee the job was done right. It's a win-win. But, I understand there's a high percentage of people who aren't in the least bit interested in wrenching or they just don't have the time due to their work and family obligations.

One of the main goals of the YouTube channel Sean and I started is to Empower people to handle their own automotive maintenance, repairs and mods. With the Right Information, Right Tools, and Right Level of Patience, most people can be successful. It's not easy and it's very challenging and frustrating at times but I think the payoff is worth it. You save yourself tons of money, you're learning something and challenging yourself, and you get a great sense of accomplishment from it.

For anyone reading this thread that's let automotive work intimidate them, don't sell yourself short. You can handle most of own automotive work if you really want to.

 

[nissanh]

I like this" I asked nicely, like i didn't understand, how he would ever get a full thread rotation for adjustment if the inner joint couldn't spin in a full 360. He told me he's been an alignment tech for 27 years"

Yes, that s how they respond when they know there are in trouble.

I took my car to Pepboys in Reno NV for an alignment, and the tech said the coolant is bad and needs to be replaced. I told him, I installed a new radiator and got new coolant like 2 weeks ago. He replied... really?

A shop in Staten Island asked my cousin to replace the entire rear axle/final drive of a 99 pathfinder to eliminate the noise coming out of the rear. Glad he didn't because the issue was something else. The same shop asked a customer to replace a transfercase on one of the Mazda cross over to eliminate a grinding noise. Poor customer did it and still the sound is there!

When I take my toyota's for an alignment (only outside service I do) I never leave the truck. I walk outside the service area and see what the hell they are doing? IF they open the hood "for an inspection" I tell them politely please just get the alignment done and I do not need an inspection. My eyes are on the vehicle all the time.

 

[2ndhandyotaman]

Last winter when I got my '99, I replaced OTRs and lower BJs because they needed to be replaced badly. I took the rig to a local firestone the alignment. 1 hr after they took the truck in, I get it back along with the excuse of "our printer is out of ink so we can't give you a print out". I didn't get 2 miles before I turned around and went back because the steering wheel was offset to the 10 o'clock position and the truck pulled to the right. It drove better when it was running with the tape measure toe-in setting that I did.

A 1/2 hour after pulling it back in, they tell me that I need to go to a body shop to have my sub frame re-aligned. I looked at the service a$$hat straight in the eys and told him that the truck doesn't have a sub frame. He then told me that I needed to have my front shocks replaced and that I probably had a bent control arm. I got a refund after a 15 minute loud argument with the store manager. I had a small independent garage do the alignment, it's been good ever since.

3 weeks ago I had to have a tire plugged because of a nail. The tires are only 6 months old and I didn't feel like dealing with buying another tire from Tire rack and shipping the old one back. I stopped by a local NTB. Over the weekend I was filing the receipt and noticed that I was charged $15 for a TPMS "service" kit and install. '99 Runners don't have that system. I stopped by yesterday and told the manager what I found on the receipt and wanted the amount refunded. They tried to convince me that my truck does have that system. After walking the manager out to the runner and turning on the dash, all he could initially say was that my truck should have had it and that's why I was charged. I asked how they could charge for a job that was impossible for them to perform in the first place. I never got an answer, just my refund in cash.

I've accepted the fact long ago that most places simply don't care because 95% of the customers don't know and just accept whatever is thrown at them by repair shops.

 

[OrRunner]

I’m a service advisor at a Ford dealership and it’s sad to say that the quality of work we put out is absolutely abysmal. Half of my techs are greener than Kermit the frog and I have to do their diagnosing for them then qc their work so that no one gets killed, the other half babe experience but think they don’t need the workshop manual and end up doing stupid stuff like putting the jiggle valve on the thermostat for my 4runner at 12:00 (yes this happened, yes I figured it out, yes having the jiggle valve in the correct 6:00 position will lower coolant temps by 10 degrees). It’s because of my experience that I do all the maintenance and repairs on my truck personally. No one will ever care about your vehicle and your safety as much as you do, not because people are evil but because that is human nature. Even the best techs make almost constant mistakes due to the pressure put on them, the constant interruptions, and the nature of the business (we are a flat rate shop so if a repair pays 6 hours that’s what you get paid whether it takes you 4 hours or 8 hours to complete). The situation is even worse on warranty repairs because of how poorly they pay. My advice is to be thankful our vehicles are simple enough that your can do nearly all repairs with a basic set of tools in your own garage. If you own a 2010+ Ford you probably won’t be able to diagnose a concern much less perform your own repair. Also, always double check your oil level and check that the filter is tight following an oil change, I’ve put in 3 motors for customers vehicles personally due to issues arising from a botched oil change.