Re: Love or Hate VSC?

[MacVay]

Re: Love or Hate VSC?

I had my first real off-road experience with the VSC last night with my 05 V8 Limited.

I was at the movies and couldn't find a regular parking spot so out back there is an undeveloped spot that I love to park in. There was a bit of a snow back there to get through (2 feet high) so I backed the truck into this area. When I was almost in the truck would not move anymore. You could floor it and get nothing and I mean nothing. Just a bunch of banging and clanging but no movement. I locked the centre and was able to continue to stuff the truck into the spot.

What purpose does this action of the VSC serve? The truck would not move at all without the diff locked. When I locked the diff it moved in just fine. Some wheelspin but no problems. Why this much intervention? It seems kind of pointless that it would behave this way. The purpose of the VSC is to keep the truck from spinning out of control. How is this going to happen at less than 1 MPH. Why can it allow the truck to move? I was not stuck at all as when I locked the diff I was on my way.

I wish there was a way to defeat this system other than locking the centre diff. There was a day not that long ago that the VSC almost got me whacked. I was waiting to turn and traffic was tight so I pushed it pretty hard to lmake the turn but it was a little slippery out and the truck just died on me. The VSC with intervening but I didn't expect it so I almost got hit. If it were my previous Pathfinder I would have been on my way.

I love this truck but I like working the throttle myself.

Cheers,

 

[Hitman]

From the situation you described, it sounds like your traction control was stopping you, not the stability control system.

 

[MacVay]

From what I understand when you lock the centre diff you turn off the VSC but the ATRAC can never be turned off.

When I locked the centre diff, I was able to move. (With a little wheelspin)

Am I wrong?

 

[Thai]

From what I understand when you lock the centre diff you turn off the VSC but the ATRAC can never be turned off.

When I locked the centre diff, I was able to move. (With a little wheelspin)

Am I wrong?

You are right. ATRAC is always ON. VSC turns off with a locked center diff.

 

[Hitman]

From what I understand when you lock the centre diff you turn off the VSC but the ATRAC can never be turned off.

When I locked the centre diff, I was able to move. (With a little wheelspin)

Am I wrong?

No, you're not wrong.... but there's no way VSC would come into play by simply backing into a snow-filled parking spot.

I had a similar situation where I intentionally got stuck in about 2 feet of snow and was able to back up (in 2 wheel drive) without the electronics stopping me.

 

[Thai]

It is possible that ATRAC decreases it's sensitivity when you lock the center diff. In other manufacturers (Land Rover & Mercedes for example), ATRAC sensitivity changes with what mode you're in (Hi vs. Lo range, Locked vs. unlocked center diff, etc.).

 

[MicaBlue03]

My take on this: Sometimes to make headway you need a significant amount of wheelspin. I think mud is the best example, but unplowed snow might be similar. Normally in these situations it's also a reasonable idea to lock the center differential. Toyota was trying to keep the operation of the system as simple as possible, so they used one button that would do the trick most of the time.

As for the severe limits on wheelspin, I suspect that's a good idea most of the time, but not all of the time. It can keep you from sliding sideways or lurching around if you get a lot of wheelspin and then suddenly (say transitioning from ice to wet pavement) get quite a bit of traction from one or more wheels.

It's almost always a tradeoff. VSC and traction control are, in my opinion, much more likely to save you than to cause problems, but nothing is 100%. MacVay, it looks like you did just the right thing.

 

[Dawna]

With all the snow we have had here in New England, my new 4-rnr had its lst. real test last Monday climbing up the mountain to get out of here (I live at the end of an 80' drop on the water). The truck would only go up in L4, with the VSC off and a beeping noise going off inside the truck.
According to the manual, which I have read several times, I believed the beeping meant something was wrong. Also, I have been having trouble understanding the VSC myself, even with the manual, so I called the dealership when I arrived at work.

When I asked the service person about the VSC he told me to ignore that button and to not touch it??? Also he said the beeping noise was to remind me that the L4 was on so that I would not drive over 12-15 mph (the beeping dissapeared as soon as I turned the L4 off at the top of the incline).
Yes, I know the maint. person's answer re. the VSC was unacceptable :bash:
but a client was waiting, so my call had to end, but I am still in the dark re. that VSC???

Once again, when would I be using it??

BTW, my 2000 4-rnr was a bear climbing the hill. Shift into 4 x 4, and up I went in the worst of conditions, just like a Spring day.
Coming down was a different story though. The 2000 was a little trickier. In the new truck I simply push the hill descent button, and no problem.

 

[MacVay]

I think you were never really in L4. I think the beeping was telling you that it had not engaged L4 yet. I have had the truck in L4 and it will beep until it has made the change to L4. When L4 was engaged the beeping stops.

I'm going to explore all of this further in the near future.

Cheers,

 

[Dawna]

Thank you for the speedy reply~

To put the car in L4 I turned the dashboard dial to L4 and put the gear shift into 4 wheel drive. Was there something else I was supposed to do as well?

 

[ToyotaDoodz]

That's correct. You were not in 4Lo. That's what the beeping was telling you. You must be stopped and in neutral to shift into 4Lo.

 

[ToyotaDoodz]

Thank you for the speedy reply~

To put the car in L4 I turned the dashboard dial to L4 and put the gear shift into 4 wheel drive. Was there something else I was supposed to do as well?

Stop the vehicle and shift into neutral. Then turn the dash knob to 4Lo and wait for the dash lights to go solid. Then shift into drive or what gear you want.

 

[Dawna]

Thank you.....

I wish the Toyota person had been able to tell me this. Pretty poor, eh?

 

[ToyotaDoodz]

Thank you.....

I wish the Toyota person had been able to tell me this. Pretty poor, eh?

Yes, poor is an understatement. Remember some of the folks were selling toasters the day before.

If you ever have questions, we can always help. There are no dumb questions.

 

[ToyotaDoodz]

Friend of mine is in East Falmouth, up on the moraine. He's down on the water and has a similar climb up his driveway. He's been having a blast over the last week but is ready for the snow to be gone.

 

[TranceKrayz]

dawna,

the guy told you to never touch what button? are you talking about the center diff. lock? I wouldn't have taken that answer from him. It's a function put there to be used! Duh?

 

[MacVay]

I doesn't suprise me that the service guy would say this. I used to have a 2002 Pathfinder LE and the Service Manager where is used to get the truck serviced had to go to a book to see if my truck had ABS. (I knew it did, be he was arguing with me about it. All PAthfinders since 1994 have ABS) He also told me that 4Lo was only for when you are stuck and if you engage it otherwise, you will damage the truck. I've used it many times for just creeping along a trail or for pulling someone out of the ditch and for pulling to boat out of steep ramps.

When you work at a service department you would think they would know the vehicles.

I would never take their word for anything.

 

[TechWrench]

Thank you for the speedy reply~

To put the car in L4 I turned the dashboard dial to L4 and put the gear shift into 4 wheel drive. Was there something else I was supposed to do as well?

All the info on how to correctly shift into and out of 4L is in the owners manual. And it doesn't surprise me that the dealer rep would come up with an answer like that.

 

[MacVay]

Ok,

Today I took my 05 4Runner for a little fact finding mission. I'm sure this is posted somewhere else on this board more or less but here are my findings.

I took the truck today through deep snow trails and out on the frozen Ottawa River which is also snow covered.

Here is what I found:

1.. With the truck in H4 it allows almost no wheel spin and will stop the truck dead when wheel spin is needed to move. (VSC in operation, ATRAC in operation highly sensitive to wheel spin)
2.. With the centre diff locked you can have some wheel spin but it still will try to brake the out of control spin of any wheel.
3.. In L4 it will allow even more wheel spin but will still brake an out of control spin by any wheel.

I am still puzzled why the VSC operates in this manner. It must be to prevent any wheel spin at any cost. It sucks though as I have to explain to my wife how and when to lock the centre diff because if she doesn't know it could leave her stranded for no reason. (Not good)

I am an automobile enthusiast and someone who will take my 4R on the trails. I am glad Toyota strives to provide a safe and reliable truck for the masses. I just think that I should have the choice on how much interaction I want to have with such systems.

I am not a big fan of traction control systems that use open diff's and the ABS to try to control wheelspin. It does not feel linear at all. I know it is a cheaper solution than lockers or LSD's.

This in mind, I do think this type of setup works as today It was not easy to get the truck stuck. In 4H though the truck doesn't seem to understand what the hell is going on.

Cheers,

 

[Hitman]

All the info on how to correctly shift into and out of 4L is in the owners manual. And it doesn't surprise me that the dealer rep would come up with an answer like that.

Yes, that is true, but I find the owner's manual to be horribly written (in terms of the 4wd system).

It could have/should have been much more consise.