Recommendations based on expected driving conditions

A

Ambros

New member
So I'm reading and doing searches and a lot of the talk is about features like KDSS or lockers. And I am trying to figure all that out when I realize...I'm not really experienced enough to make that decision. These mechanical features are going to be based on the driving I do so and I'm not sure what is really necessary. I need to know that plus since its the used market and I might not get everything I want i need to know priorities vs. nice to have. Its like a rubics cube!!!

So from those of you who have experienced snow, mud, sand......

In the used car market, say 2014-2016. I've been reading here and trying to educate myself on the differences between models. Ruled out the Limited and TRD's (I get confused as to whether they are a trim or a model but I think that's ruled out regardless.
I think its btw a SR5 Premium vs. Trail vs Trail Premium.

I plan on moving to the UP of Michigan or the upper part of the mitt with trips to the UP (not off the grid but it won't be far).
Conditions:
Snow Snow and more Snow. Sliding off into ditches filled with snow. (I will have snow tires for the snow season0. Snow season is bracketed by mud season. A lot of the tracks can be very very sandy and soft (freaks me out). Some of the tracks used by ATVs can be beat to a fine powder inches deep with high berms on either side. Then there are the standard ruts, potholes etc. There are areas in the UP that are rocky but I'm not looking for too much adventure/crawling. Just access to off the beaten track fishing, nature watching with lots of potential for getting stuck on lonely not particularly well maintained truck trails. I live alone and prowling areas are often without cell phone coverage. So while on the one hand I don't think I need capabilities that are remotely extreme, on the other hand I really don't want to get stuck since no wifey at home will be calling out someone to come look for me. Not to mention when you call a wrecker they are probably a couple of hours away and its 400.00 minimum for a call out. But you guys know all this:)

So regular 4WD.....
do I need crawl control, terrain select, KDSS, a differential locker? Does everything have ATRAC?

Oh and a tow package

Prioritized? Deal breakers?

The biggest jump in getting stuck mechanical differences seems to be from the SR5 and SR5 Premium vs. the Trail and the Trail vs. the Trail Premium which is how I narrowed it to those last 3. I have gotten a little lost on the mechnical diff's btw those 3.

Non mechanical priorities
1) -want to mod the cargo space with a back seats down for flat and level no humps or dips. After looking I decided that a 2nd row only model would be best.easiest and have been ruling out 3 row seating. But then I read a thread here where it looks like some people think 3rd row seats are easy? :Cry: I know Antman and some have done some amazing builds but I'm looking for not too complicated as I will be hiring this done. IDK, opinions? This is my number one non mechanical pri.

After that, Sunroof would be really nice then sure I wouldn't mind heated seats in that order. Not sure I care bout heated mirrors, auto dimming mirrors, sound sysems etc. Too much its all fluffy noise. I get that Premiums have the sunroofs and heated seats. But not sure if some people order sunroofs on regular Trails, is it available as an option? Might I bump into one? Or is the regular Trail out unless I find a great deal and throw out the sunroof and heated seats as long as I get the mechanical priorities?

Ok sorry for the long post, hope some of you who have managed to not get stuck or been stuck and got out can help me out here.
Thanks
 
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Ambros said:
So I'm reading and doing searches and a lot of the talk is about features like KDSS or lockers. And I am trying to figure all that out when I realize...I'm not really experienced enough to make that decision. These mechanical features are going to be based on the driving I do so and I'm not sure what is really necessary. I need to know that plus since its the used market and I might not get everything I want i need to know priorities vs. nice to have. Its like a rubics cube!!!

So from those of you who have experienced snow, mud, sand......

In the used car market, say 2014-2016. I've been reading here and trying to educate myself on the differences between models. Ruled out the Limited and TRD's (I get confused as to whether they are a trim or a model but I think that's ruled out regardless.
I think its btw a SR5 Premium vs. Trail vs Trail Premium.

I plan on moving to the UP of Michigan or the upper part of the mitt with trips to the UP (not off the grid but it won't be far).
Conditions:
Snow Snow and more Snow. Sliding off into ditches filled with snow. (I will have snow tires for the snow season0. Snow season is bracketed by mud season. A lot of the tracks can be very very sandy and soft (freaks me out). Some of the tracks used by ATVs can be beat to a fine powder inches deep with high berms on either side. Then there are the standard ruts, potholes etc. There are areas in the UP that are rocky but I'm not looking for too much adventure/crawling. Just access to off the beaten track fishing, nature watching with lots of potential for getting stuck on lonely not particularly well maintained truck trails. I live alone and prowling areas are often without cell phone coverage. So while on the one hand I don't think I need capabilities that are remotely extreme, on the other hand I really don't want to get stuck since no wifey at home will be calling out someone to come look for me. Not to mention when you call a wrecker they are probably a couple of hours away and its 400.00 minimum for a call out. But you guys know all this:)

So regular 4WD.....
do I need crawl control, terrain select, KDSS, a differential locker? Does everything have ATRAC?

Oh and a tow package

Prioritized? Deal breakers?

The biggest jump in getting stuck mechanical differences seems to be from the SR5 and SR5 Premium vs. the Trail and the Trail vs. the Trail Premium which is how I narrowed it to those last 3. I have gotten a little lost on the mechnical diff's btw those 3.

Non mechanical priorities
1) -want to mod the cargo space with a back seats down for flat and level no humps or dips. After looking I decided that a 2nd row only model would be best.easiest and have been ruling out 3 row seating. But then I read a thread here where it looks like some people think 3rd row seats are easy? :Cry: I know Antman and some have done some amazing builds but I'm looking for not too complicated as I will be hiring this done. IDK, opinions? This is my number one non mechanical pri.

After that, Sunroof would be really nice then sure I wouldn't mind heated seats in that order. Not sure I care bout heated mirrors, auto dimming mirrors, sound sysems etc. Too much its all fluffy noise. I get that Premiums have the sunroofs and heated seats. But not sure if some people order sunroofs on regular Trails, is it available as an option? Might I bump into one? Or is the regular Trail out unless I find a great deal and throw out the sunroof and heated seats as long as I get the mechanical priorities?

Ok sorry for the long post, hope some of you who have managed to not get stuck or been stuck and got out can help me out here.
Thanks
Click to expand...

I'm not going to provide your answers, but I'll help steer your in the right (at least righter) direction. Learn up on these things and you'll decide what you want. (Use the search, too, this questions have been answered before).

KDSS -- this is a system that allows for better highway handling on the TE models
Rear locking differential -- this is the other system unique to the TE

FT4WD -- on the Limited model, uses a torsen center differential
XREAS -- the other LE system/feature; love it or hate it, it's designed for better on road handling

SR5 has none of these systems above, but you may not really need any of these to handle snow. You'll get varying opinions on that. A 4WD SR5 is more capable than most drivers registered here at T4R.org, and the SR5 gives a good platform for modifications (and so is preferred by many here).

ATRAC -- helps with traction in low speed settings through braking manipulation (featured on all models? not that I've looked this up)
CRAWL, etc -- this is certainly nice, but it doesn't change the primary driving characteristics of your 4R as much as ATRAC (or so I'm aware); only on the TE and TRD

TRD -- it certainly looks great, but the basic features aren't any more significant for what you describe than the other models.
 
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Test drive. Whatever you choose, it would be a very capable vehicle, able to handle what you have described. All trims have ATRAC, in addition the Trail has a rear locker and all the terrain select and crawl control gizmos, as well as KDSS as an option. So test drive and see what you like better, can't go wrong either way.

Sent from my SM-G930F using Tapatalk
 
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Pick the amenities you want - they will all handle snow conditions well and probably equally, depending on tires. Trail has an available rear locker that is great for initial traction, like when stuck, but can be very dangerous on slippery slopes, and has several electronic traction settings instead of simply a-trac. Don't worry, you can't go wrong.
 
I have had my 4Runner in the UP several times. Based on your needs, an SR5 will do just fine. Looks like you are already planning on snow tires, which are really the most important piece of winter driving equipment. In the future if your needs have changed, then you can always decide if mods are right for you. That being said, is there any reason you have ruled out a Limited? The full time 4wd (vs part time of the SR5/Trail) will make your life a bit easier during the winter. My uncle drives his 4th gen all over the UP and loves it. It's totally stock and has bad tires, but he still manages to make it back to his deer camp without issue.
 
if snow is your ultimate terrain, personally, I'd consider a limited, especially if I planned to share the vehicle with someone who might not want to hear my "when to use 4x4" lecture

I drive in a lot of snow. My offroading is done in the summertime (likewise - seldom used woods roads, and prime fishing spots that used to make me queasy in a half-ton 4x4). In the winter, I'm just trying to stay on the road and stay safe. That being said, I don't use my locker, or even 4lo in the winter. There's lots of guys that hit the backcountry in the winter, but I'm not one of them. It's all about staying out of the ditch and washing the salt off every couple days for me. In any trim, decent winter tires pay dividends in the cold, icy stuff.

KDSS gives you the on-road advantage of heavy swaybars, and allows them to move off-road (<20kmph) to offset the disadvantage of heavy swaybars a bit. For on-road driving, it corners amazingly well.

It looks like you have a good grip on the various amenities offered by various trim levels.

Welcome to the forum
 
Just to add another vote for any model will do fine. My suggestion - save money on offroad goodies and buy an SR5 premium - heated seats are great in cold weather.

Stick with a 2 row. The 3rd row is easy to remove - but the middle row of seats is not the same and does not lay flat in the same way as the middle row of a 2 row model. Go play with them at a dealer and you'll see what I mean.

Use some of the extra $ you saved by going with the SR5 Premium if you feel like you need a bit more safety margin and buy the following:

1. Snow tires and wheels.

2. A hidden winch mount or one of the partial bumper winch mounts, plus a winch. There's really no other tool out there that is as handy as a winch when you're traveling alone in snow and sand. Learn how to use it safely and you'll probably never call a tow truck again.

3. An air compressor so you can air down your tires.

That setup would get you everywhere you want to go with an extra comfort margin of safety in the event you do end up in over your head a little bit. And probably still be a bit less expensive than a comparable Trail Premium model with some features you may never really need.

good luck.
 
You will need need a solid axle swap with a set of Dana 60s stuffed with ford high pinion 9s with Detroit lockers . 37s minimal with bias ply tires.

Kidding...

Any model that is 4wd will meet your needs. If I was in heavy snow area.. I would consider a limited for the full time system....The others will do fine, but why not...
 
First drive in the snow with my 2017 Limited was shortly after swapping to 17" wheels with new Blizzak DM-V2 tires. We ended up on a forest service road we never should have been on, in a snow storm, with some sections of road where we'd have needed 1,000 feet of cable to winch ourselves out of the "ditch".

I felt that the all-time 4wd worked the best in all but the deepest snow when we were plowing down the ~18" crown of snow between the powder filled icy ruts.

I'm really glad I got the Limited, since the features fit my family's needs perfectly. I'm really glad I prioritize good snow tires on spare wheels, since it keeps us all alive when the safety margin grts too thin.

Sounds like any trim will work for your mechanical needs, so the creature comforts will probably tip the balance towards your best bet.

Which ever one you pick, you'll almost certainly be glad you did :-)


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro
 
Good morning, thank you all for taking the time to reply.

I see several comments recommending the Limited because of the AWD. Does the limited have options for other than AWD? Can you switch out of the AWD and into a 4LO or something? One time I was out prowling hoping to hear wolves and/or owls at 11:00 at night in a rented mini fake Jeep thing and ran into some road washout of deep wet sand. I really wanted something to shift into whether I needed it or not:)

I don't want to get too focused on snow. I get what it is being said and I do understand that the Limited, or perhaps some other brand of AWD like a Suburu, would be safer for a lot of my winter driving but this move to the UP is, at this time, a 3-5 year plan. Not sure what is going to happen after that but I hope to be able to spend at least some time traveling back roads somewhere, in non winter conditions. And with the Limited's pricing I'd either have to drop back in the year to a 2012 or reevaluate a different brand. Now if it does have an option for switching into other 4WD types I might have to recheck the budget.

Happy one person chimed in on the 2 row seat thing and confirm what I thought because that is the big deal. Other than that I want to buy and go. Figuring this out is bad enough, I don't want to start thinking of after market mods other than a tow package? (and maybe that winch). I really don't like shopping of any kind and I would have to have the right mechanic (shopping for a mechanic).

So SR5 would be fine if I get desperate, but I think I will take a little time and see if a Trail Premium with 2 Rows shows up. I did a search of all craigslist and Carmax and didn't see much so it may not be possible to find. especially at the right price or mileage. There is a regular 2 row Trail near me now but I'm struggling with giving up the the sunroof:) And a Trail Premium with 3rd row seats an hour away - dang!
 
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The Limited does have a 4hi and 4lo as well.

The AWD and a few other premium features (heated/cooled seats) were what drew me to the Limited. They are all great trucks though, can't go wrong with any that you choose.

The tow package seems to be a fairly common feature. I looked at dozens of '14-16's and can't remember seeing one that didn't have it.
 
Can't comment on the snow being in Florida, but when I first got my Limited, I was out goofing around in some sand and I table topped at an angle on a dirt bike berm with Yokohama Geolander street tires at full pressure. 2 tires were kicking sand up all over the truck, 2 were not moving. RTFM, put it in 4Lo and turned the ATRAC on, it wiggled itself right out.
ATRAC is a Great system!!!
Agree with everyone else, all of these 4x4 trucks will suit you just fine. Limited (AWD) good in the snow? Can't speak on that but from what I've read from the Senior members on here, Yea. With the heated seats in the UP? Might be worth the extra coin. The only thing AWD wont do well is a donut, and it doesn't seem like you would be too worried about that.
 

"Does the limited have options for other than AWD"

No. It is "permanently" in AWD, but ...

"Can you switch out of the AWD and into a 4LO or something"

You can never get "out" of AWD, but there is a switchable AWD/LO mode, on the dash in the form of a rotary knob.

"I really wanted something to shift into whether I needed it or not"

Earlier models of SR5 and TE (thinking '10-'13 ???) have a separate shift LEVER for 4HI/4LO. All TEs still have this, while SR5s post '14 (?) went to a rotary knob for 4WD. Recognize that ALL TEs and ALL SR5s are RWD vehicles, and NOT particularly good in slippery stuff whilst in 2WD. Hence, you anticipate your 4WD needs such that you're not fiddling for it at the wrong time. This is why some prefer the AWD of the LE. I use 4WD in the winter, in the snow, and see no need for AWD for the other 99.95% of my driving. Plus, I'm not a bells & whistles (LE) person. SR5/P is perfect for me.

Conversely however, the 4WD system is not happy (sharp turns/parking) on dry surfaces, and you will be in a few circumstances where you'll be in-and-out of 4WD from time to time. Another reason why some prefer AWD, no biggie tho AFAIC, you just learn to drive it.
 
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My vote would be for TE. Personally I have SR5 though and it works just fine in snow and on trails. But I would pick TE mostly because people says that KDSS is nice and rear locker might be useful one day. That's about all important differences between SR5 and TE in my opinion. I don't think people use crawl control very often and hood scoop is just for show : ). I was thinking abut installing ARB rear locker in my SR5, but decided not to since I didn't really need it so far. Another thing that if you are going to do mods on your truck SR5 is better since it doesn't have KDSS or X-REAS systems so it's simplier to liift. Not sure if anybody mentioned it, but keep in mind that SR5 and TE have part time 4WD system and it means that you should not use it on dry pavement and have to drive in 4WD mode for at least 10 miles a month to keep transfer case lubricated. Limited it a bit simplier in this regard because you have 4WD on all the time. But limited need new wheels and removing plastic thing under front bumper to have better approach angle and be as capable as SR5 or TE if you're going to trails.

My SR5 doesn't have 3rd seats, but I've seen one with 3rd seats and it has less space in trunk. If you're not planning to carry more than 4 passengers often I would stay away from 3rd seats. They are probably not too hard to remove, but I don't know for sure, it's just my guess. I'm sure that somebody has removed 3rd seats already, you can search this forum or Internet to see if you can do it or not.
 
philsey said:
"Does the limited have options for other than AWD"

No. It is "permanently" in AWD, but ...

"Can you switch out of the AWD and into a 4LO or something"

You can never get "out" of AWD, but there is a switchable AWD/LO mode, on the dash in the form of a rotary knob.
Click to expand...

Ok, please school this noob on the difference between 4H on the LE and 4H on the SR5.

I know that 4HL locks the center differential, but what else is different from 4H on the SR5?

2015-Toyota-4Runner-Limited-center-console-knob.jpg
 
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