Rental Security Deposit Advice

SoCal4Run

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I'll try to make a long story short. Rented a house in Brea, CA for almost 5 years. Great tenants, kept the place real nice and always paid on time. Get notice that we have to move out suddenly, with 6 month pregnant wife at the time. Sucks, but is what it is. Find a new rental, but have to change daughter's schools and again, move while my wife is pregnant and can't really help with anything.

We took a while moving and cleaning up the previous place. Patched all the holes and repainted, cleaned, etc. etc. Place looked awesome for a family of 4 with 2 younger kids living there for 5 years. Expecting to get full deposit back. Yet, not only are the owners forcing us to move at this time, now they are trying to charge me $500. $300 to shampoo the carpet, and $200 because we didn't put the exact same air filter in the a/c unit, so now the ducts/coils need to be cleaned blah, blah, blah.

First of all, there is no way those carpets were shampoo'd when we moved in. I'm not even sure they were vacuumed. But property manager is saying they have canceled check or something showing they did it. Is there a law that states we need to get the carpets shampoo'd because they did? Obviously we vacuumed and cleaned, but didn't shampoo the carpets.

Also, owner is saying the filter should have been a 4" filter, and we only installed a thinner filter. Is this 4" filter a standard filter you can buy from home depot or anything, or is it a custom filter? Should they have provided us with filters?

Just wanted to get some input from you intelligent people to figure out if this is worth fighting, or just eat the $500 and be done with it. Thanks.
 
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Your best bet would be to talk with a local rental attorney. In. Washington state the laws are written heavily in favor of the renter. Full deposit back if no reason is given with a postmarked letter in a certain amount of business days. A cleaning fee is pretty standard. Some state require new carpet every 2 years regardless of switching tenants. If you have the time to do some homework then you may be able to help yourself out. But I have no idea how California law is written. Up here it's the Washington state housing authority. And I found their website very helpful before we bought a home. Good luck hope this helps.


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I happen to be a landlord in Washington State. There's a difference between a deposit and a fee. Deposits are used for unpaid utility bills, towards last month's rent, carpet repair, new paint, cabinet repairs, and the items not considered typical cleaning expenses.

A fee, however, is used mostly for cleaning such as carpets, bathrooms, kitchens etc. Fees are non refundable and must be in the lease agreement. Carpet cleaning is standard along with those other things I just mentioned. When a tenant moves out, regardless of how clean they kept the place, I still have it cleaned.

As for the deposit, i've used a tenants deposit to replace bulbs, blinds, drip thingies for the stove, screens, sheetrock repair, sub-flooring repair because of a leaking dishwasher, and other things. All expenses should be itemized and given to the tenant within 30 days.

As for the filter, that should be the landlords responsibility. I change filters in my units. Tenants are responsible for smoke detectors twice a year. That is in the lease agreement. I include washer, dryer, microwave, fireplace and exterior maintenance in my lease agreement.

Just an FYI - most carpets in rental units are not designed to last as long as a homeowners carpet. Replacing carpets, unless damaged by the tenant should still be at the landlords expense. To be honest with you, most "slumlords" will find a way to keep "most" of your deposit. Since he's asking you to move he's probably in some financial difficulty.

If you have a heat pump the filter is a 4 inch filter and not your typical 24x24 2 inch. You can pick those up at HD or Lowes. Cost around $30 plus for a good HEPA filter. I'm heading to a meeting plus I'm on my phone so I'm sure there are a bazillion spelling errors. Sorry about that. I'll check back tonight after my meeting. You need to understand California tenant/landlord laws. They are Different than Washington.
 
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I'm stuck in traffic right now. Figured I would jot down a couple things.

1 - Check your tenant/landlord RCW's for your city also. For instance, Seattle has different laws governing the lease than where I live even though we're both in Washington State. City RCW's are different.

Also, the deposit here took the place of first and last month's rent. I'm no longer allowed to ask for last months rent.

You need to read your lease and see what you signed. As a renter, you have rights. You should have done a walk through before you rented and documented everything before you moved in, including the carpet. Any questions, feel free to ask me.

Lastly, I'm sorry you and your family are going through this.
 
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https://www.dca.ca.gov/dca/publications/landlordbook/sec-deposit.shtml

Carpets are a touchy one. We usually have them cleaned when we moved out but it bit us in the butt last time and caused a trip to court.

What does your lease say about the carpets?
CA law requires the house to be as clean as it was when you moved in. I would require the landlord to provide a receipt for the original carpet cleaning if you dispute them being cleaned (that really should have been done when you moved in)

Did you note the condition of the carpets on the move in checklist?
Did you take pics when you moved in and when you moved out? Those can help if you go to court.
Did you do a walkthrough with the landlord when you moved out? If so, what was said about the carpet?
Did you receive an itemized list and invoice copies within 21 days of moving out?

If the HVAC requires a special filter they should have noted that in the lease. I have never seen anything but the 1" filters, but don't know if there are different units that require thicker ones.
 
Thanks guys for the responses. Unfortunately, I don't think there is any way out of the carpet issue. There is verbage in the lease agreement about dirty carpet being excessive wear and needs to be cleaned. I think it's bogus considering the condition we noted when we moved in, but I don't think we can fight that one. But honestly, $300 to clean carpet of stairs and 2nd floor. No carpet on first floor.

On the other hand, I think the filter thing is just bullshit. Nowhere in the lease agreement does it even state that we are responsible for the maintenance of the filter, let along use a 'landlord approved" one. So I think that charge is absolute garbage.

Only issue is the property manager is basically just backing out and wants to return the deposit minus $500, and said I can handle other stuff in small claims if you wanted. He doesn't want to deal with him/her. I am just fed up with everyone.
 
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https://www.dca.ca.gov/dca/publications/landlordbook/sec-deposit.shtml

Carpets are a touchy one. We usually have them cleaned when we moved out but it bit us in the butt last time and caused a trip to court.

What does your lease say about the carpets?
CA law requires the house to be as clean as it was when you moved in. I would require the landlord to provide a receipt for the original carpet cleaning if you dispute them being cleaned (that really should have been done when you moved in)

Did you note the condition of the carpets on the move in checklist?
Did you take pics when you moved in and when you moved out? Those can help if you go to court.
Did you do a walkthrough with the landlord when you moved out? If so, what was said about the carpet?
Did you receive an itemized list and invoice copies within 21 days of moving out?

If the HVAC requires a special filter they should have noted that in the lease. I have never seen anything but the 1" filters, but don't know if there are different units that require thicker ones.

We noted it, but unfortunately not well enough and not as much documentation as we should have because heaven forbid I trusted we weren't dealing with *******s. But there is nothing in the agreement about the special filter r if we even are responsible for maintaining it for that matter.
 
We noted it, but unfortunately not well enough and not as much documentation as we should have because heaven forbid I trusted we weren't dealing with *******s. But there is nothing in the agreement about the special filter r if we even are responsible for maintaining it for that matter.

Just looked up the price of the 4" filters on HD. Only $39.77 for a 2 pack. It's not the tenants responsibility to change heat pump filters. I actually don't want my tenants touching anything like that. Sounds like you're getting some of your deposit back. Not too bad after five years living in the unit.

Make sure he sends you an itemized receipt of all the repairs and cleaning within the time required by California.
 
When I rented an apartment for 5 years the landlord took into account normal wear and tear on the carpet. I ended up only losing $100 of my $1500 deposit. May be worth looking into...

But yes, the itemized receipt is key.
 
I know it feels crappy but frankly I don't think losing $500 deposit over 5 years of a housing rental is that bad. Many apartments will charge $300 out of your deposit just for cleaning. For a house, $500 is certainly not cheap but it isn't far out there.
 
I know it feels crappy but frankly I don't think losing $500 deposit over 5 years of a housing rental is that bad. Many apartments will charge $300 out of your deposit just for cleaning. For a house, $500 is certainly not cheap but it isn't far out there.

I have to side with the OP on this, there is a principle involved. My family and I just moved to Florida at the end of a 30 month rental, and we worked hard to keep that as much of that deposit as we could. We hired a professional cleaner to come in to shampoo the carpets and clean everything properly, replaced a cracked window in the shower even though we weren't sure if it was broken or not when we moved in, patched and repainted walls where we hang hangings, everything. Our current home we went through with a fine tooth comb on a pre-move in inspection and took more than 100 photos to document existing conditions. We've been screwed by too many unscrupulous landlords with stupid cleaning and maintenance fees that weren't fighting for just a couple hundred dollars, but to hell with that going forward. Maybe we can afford to walk away from $2-300 every few years when we move again, but why should we? We are honest people and we treat the homes we have been forced to rent as though we owned them, why should we bear the cost of maintenance and repairs that we weren't responsible for? That's just lining another guy's pockets.

Fight the good fight, man, I've been there. Read your lease, get a good attorney if need be. Housing is something that, like wage stagnation, is contributing to the divisions in society. If we take it the hard way now, we'll keep taking it until society suffers a breakdown.
 
The bottom line about cleaning fees is if it's in your rental agreement then regardless of how clean you leave it you pay the fee. So if it's in the contract. Then just leave it clean ish. Vacuumed, counters wiped down, basics.


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I have to side with the OP on this, there is a principle involved. My family and I just moved to Florida at the end of a 30 month rental, and we worked hard to keep that as much of that deposit as we could. We hired a professional cleaner to come in to shampoo the carpets and clean everything properly, replaced a cracked window in the shower even though we weren't sure if it was broken or not when we moved in, patched and repainted walls where we hang hangings, everything. Our current home we went through with a fine tooth comb on a pre-move in inspection and took more than 100 photos to document existing conditions. We've been screwed by too many unscrupulous landlords with stupid cleaning and maintenance fees that weren't fighting for just a couple hundred dollars, but to hell with that going forward. Maybe we can afford to walk away from $2-300 every few years when we move again, but why should we? We are honest people and we treat the homes we have been forced to rent as though we owned them, why should we bear the cost of maintenance and repairs that we weren't responsible for? That's just lining another guy's pockets.

Fight the good fight, man, I've been there. Read your lease, get a good attorney if need be. Housing is something that, like wage stagnation, is contributing to the divisions in society. If we take it the hard way now, we'll keep taking it until society suffers a breakdown.

You sound like you were the ideal tenant. Unfortunately, that's not always the case despite the extensive screening process. Not all landlords are "slumlords" either. I have great tenants in my rentals right now but I have had to suffer losses in the past that I will NEVER re-coupe. (That's the risk you take with investment properties, but that's also what taxes are for.)

Just for giggles I've attached a snapshot of an itemized list from a tenant back in 2008 that I was never able to get a red cent from. So consider this scenario as a landlord - The tenant decides to move out and fails to pay you the entire rent due for October ($995, only pays $700) but never tells you they're moving. They bail and leave you with unpaid utility bills, carpet that is trashed, holes in the sheet rock from door knobs because they took the doorstops off, a kitchen that is trashed, plugged up toilet, tub, unpaid rent for October etc.

So I still have to make my mortgage payment every month which was short in October by $300. No "notice to vacate" left me high and dry to try and get someone in there for November. I knew I was going to have to eat Novembers mortgage payment. Because it was winter, that place was vacant until after APRIL. Yea, that's right six months. In our case, the rent we receive goes from the tenants hand to mine, directly to the bank. Zero profit. As a matter of fact I was upside in this one because of the market.

No song and dance here or the worlds smallest violin crying me a river, it's just the plain facts of being a Landlord. There are a LOT of expenses that most tenants are not aware of. The notice to vacate is SO CRITICAL! It gives me time to screen prospective tenants. From what you said, you are CLEARLY an awesome tenant!! Always remember, signed paperwork is binding.

You mentioned one thing in your statement that I completely disagree with you on and that's "why should we bear the cost of maintenance and repairs that we weren't responsible for?" You live there so it's your responsibility. The landlord doesn't live there. You entered into a lease agreement. If the garbage disposal goes T/U because you were watering a plant and a stone fell in there and jammed it. Why should the landlord pay for that? (happened to me). Or the heater element in the dryer decides to check out, who should be responsible? I'm not using that dryer - the tenant is. I've repaired washers and dryers in my units MANY times at my cost!! I had to rip up the sub-flooring due to a leaking dishwasher that over time ruined the floor. I didn't discover it until after the tenant moved out. You know what caused it? A damn chicken bone! Seriously, who puts dishes in the dishwasher with chicken bones still on them? The cost...OMG.

As a landlord the units I have belong to me (actually the bank) but it sounds better if I say they're mine. Haha. So I take care of the siding, the roof, the heat pump, the water heater, furnace etc. It's still my investment. Because I provide all appliances for my tenants, I also take responsibility for repairing them if they break. That's how I keep my tenants. I provide them with a home.

Just to close, carpet cleaning is EXPENSIVE but the alternative is even more! I've attached an invoice of the cost that I incurred when I had to eventually replace the carpet in of my units due to neglect. I also replaced the carpet in on unit at one applicants request. They loved the place but not the carpet. So I told them I would bring them sample books and they could choose the carpet they want if they sign a two year lease. I replaced the carpet with some very gorgeous carpet and they've been in there for ten years. Win/Win. I have no vacancy, advertising or screening to deal with. I have done everything I could to take good care of them.

As for the OP, the filter should be the landlords expense, but the carpet cleaning should be his IF it's in the Lease Agreement.

I don't want to drag this thread on and on but I thought you would appreciate a landlords perspective. I would take you any day as a tenant if you decide to move up here to Washington!! I would have given you 100% of your deposit back and if we agreed that the carpet cleaning company you used was professional and you had a receipt, the fee would have been returned to you as well. Sorry, right now, no vacancies.

Unfortunately, in many cases the tenant/landlord relationship is like the employer/employee interview - two people lying to each other. I'm the best employee you'll ever have and we're the best company you'll ever work for.
 

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I hear you Rock_Rat, and overall we've been lucky with our landlords for the most part. But like most we've been taken advantage of before as well, and it leaves a bad taste in one's mouth. And to be clear we don't shirk for damage we have done, as stated we have repaired things at our cost which we were uncertain of responsibility if for no other reason then we know if we replace it, we aren't paying a markup from the LL (I'm a general contractor fwiw).

Anyway, to the OP better luck and be better informed with your new place. Here's hoping you can get out of the rental spiral and buy something of your own.
 
So, I'm wondering what the lease says about kicking you out early without cause. Did he just give you short notice that he wasn't renewing the lease or did he terminate the rental contract mid-year? Does the rental agreement include specific language that he can do that? You're in CA, so I have a feeling there are a lot of restrictions on what he can do. It he wasn't allowed to kick you out, you might be able to use that as leverage "tell you what, you refund the deposit and we won't sue for breach of contract plus moving expenses plus punitive damages" kinda thing. Obviously I don't know my ass from my elbow on CA law, so if it were me, I'd probably contact an attorney and see if it's worth it.
 
I am only curious about one thing. You replaced the filter. Did you replace a 4" filter with a 1 or 2" one?

Personally I would only replace one with the same specs. Nothing else to add I was wondering.
 
Renting. Did it twice and don't ever want to go back. Both cases I documented in detail all issues before I moved in and left the property in better condition than when we started living in it.
Owning had brought it's own headaches but I knew what I was getting myself into
 
Here's some good reading for you:

https://www.dca.ca.gov/dca/publications/landlordbook/sec-deposit.shtml

"2. Carpets and drapes - "useful life" rule

Normal wear and tear to carpets, drapes and other furnishings cannot be charged against a tenant's security deposit.243 Normal wear and tear includes simple wearing down of carpet and drapes because of normal use or aging, and includes moderate dirt or spotting. In contrast, large rips or indelible stains justify a deduction from the tenant's security deposit for repairing the carpet or drapes, or replacing them if that is reasonably necessary.

One common method of calculating the deduction for replacement prorates the total cost of replacement so that the tenant pays only for the remaining useful life of the item that the tenant has damaged or destroyed. For example, suppose a tenant has damaged beyond repair an eight-year-old carpet that had a life expectancy of ten years, and that a replacement carpet of similar quality would cost $1,000. The landlord could properly charge only $200 for the two years' worth of life (use) that would have remained if the tenant had not damaged the carpet."

I'd find out how old the carpet was when you moved in.
 
Here's some good reading for you:

https://www.dca.ca.gov/dca/publications/landlordbook/sec-deposit.shtml

"2. Carpets and drapes - "useful life" rule

Normal wear and tear to carpets, drapes and other furnishings cannot be charged against a tenant's security deposit.243 Normal wear and tear includes simple wearing down of carpet and drapes because of normal use or aging, and includes moderate dirt or spotting. In contrast, large rips or indelible stains justify a deduction from the tenant's security deposit for repairing the carpet or drapes, or replacing them if that is reasonably necessary.

One common method of calculating the deduction for replacement prorates the total cost of replacement so that the tenant pays only for the remaining useful life of the item that the tenant has damaged or destroyed. For example, suppose a tenant has damaged beyond repair an eight-year-old carpet that had a life expectancy of ten years, and that a replacement carpet of similar quality would cost $1,000. The landlord could properly charge only $200 for the two years' worth of life (use) that would have remained if the tenant had not damaged the carpet."

I'd find out how old the carpet was when you moved in.

If I'm reading it correctly, the OP is being charged a cleaning FEE. The $300 is not being used from the deposit because of wear and tear as stated in the definition above. (difference between wear and tear and cleaning) A landlord may properly deduct from the departing tenant's security deposit to make the rental unit as clean as it was when the tenant moved in. However, in this case the OP left the unit pretty much spotless, therefore he's getting screwed out of $300 for cleaning because it exceeds the "reasonable cost" to clean. He's also getting screwed out of the filter situation. He should have received at least 90% of his security deposit back.
 

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