Replace Rear bearing, outer seal & retainers or just inner seal?

[Pauly67]

Hi Guys!

Replacing front & rear brakes on my '02 4Runner with 194k on it. Fronts went smooth as expected with disc brakes!!:thumb3:

When I got to the right rear I found grease caked inside the hub behind the flange and of course on the inside of the drum.:redbrick:

After reading the awesome post by BigFish, I assumed I was leaking from the inner seal, and thats all I needed to replace, since the bearing is spinning fine with no apparent noises.

I thought I was getting off easy only replacing the inner seal (Toyo OEM) and the O-ring; however, after removing the shaft, it seems their is a lot of play in the bearing......is this normal???

One thing I realized is that I did not see any gear oil spewing or leaking on the back side of the tire, like the pics that BigFish showed. I only had the grease build up on the hub in between the flange & the backplate.

Is my assumption correct that my problem may not have been the inner seal, which I just replaced? I just don't want to put it all back together, and find out I did not correct the problem.

Could the grease from the worn bearing be oozing out from the outer seal?

With 194k miles should I just figure its time to replace both sides....bearings, seals, retainers & skid control rotor and be done with the job???

Looking for input from anyone whos done it before and experienced these issues!

Thanks in advance!
Paul

 

[Trub]

Just did the samething today. Went to put on rear coils and shocks and noticed oil on the backing plate of the left rear. Pulled it all apart and noticed the bearing had some play in it, though it's not making any noise. So I just put the inner seal in and replaced the rear brakes. Probably need to go back in and have a new bearing pressed on just didn't have the time.

 

[BTO]

They all do this. Obviously a design flaw.

 

[BigFishAllDay]

Pauly67,

The retainers & skid control rotors are not wear items. They just have to be replaced due to the fact that they get damaged in the process of replacing the bearings.

The outer seal is nothing more than a dust cover... keeps dust from getting in, but it doesn't stop stuff from getting out.

You've already done the inner seals & O-ring...

So the question is, are your bearings bad? They do have a small amount of play in them naturally. What I'm talking about here is say for instance, you set the axle down on the wheel studs and rock the backing plate up and down.... there is normally a little play there.

However, to test for the play you're worried about, you need to stabilize the axle/bearing/backing plate. The easiest way to do that is to bolt it into the axle housing via the 4 bolts that hold the axle assembly & backing plate into the axle housing. Then just get ahold of the wheel studs and try to move the axle vertically, horizontally, etc. If you can feel play in the bearing while doing that... then you should be concerned and IMO replace the bearings.

If you haven't got any discernable play in that test, then put it back together and don't worry about it.

The reason I replaced my bearings is because I had a pretty good leak going, and the gear oil can wash the grease out of the bearings. The bearings cannot be re-greased, so eventually they will fail. I replaced mine as preventative maintenance and for peace of mind. Since your leak wasn't severe, chances are your bearings' grease is more/less intact, and if they have no play, I see no reason to replace them.

 

[Pauly67]

Pauly67,

So the question is, are your bearings bad? They do have a small amount of play in them naturally. What I'm talking about here is say for instance, you set the axle down on the wheel studs and rock the backing plate up and down.... there is normally a little play there.

However, to test for the play you're worried about, you need to stabilize the axle/bearing/backing plate. The easiest way to do that is to bolt it into the axle housing via the 4 bolts that hold the axle assembly & backing plate into the axle housing. Then just get ahold of the wheel studs and try to move the axle vertically, horizontally, etc. If you can feel play in the bearing while doing that... then you should be concerned and IMO replace the bearings.

If you haven't got any discernable play in that test, then put it back together and don't worry about it.

BigFish,:fishing:

Thanks for the detailed reply.....

Btw, your write up was PHENOMINAL!!......your detailed explanation, listing part #s w/ pricing & pics, clear large pictures were very helpful, then the 'Final Thoughts" was a bonus to an already excellent piece of work! I was easily able to understand the entire process & feel confident tackling the job.
AAA+++++++:bravo:

I will give it the test and let you know my results.

Paul

ps: I did take off the differential breather & blew it out....seems to have good air flow

 

[Pauly67]

Test results!

I bolted the axle back in and checked for movement & there was not any vertical or horizontal play, so I put everything back together, bled my brakes & topped off the rear differential.

I will inspect that right rear wheel for any signs of grease on the hub after 1000 miles or so.

Good to be back on the road again!!!

Thanks again for your help BigFish!!

Paul:cheers:

 

[Ron Helmuth]

glad that went well for you. I hope it holds up fine for you.

If you're handy enough, and Big Fish and you seem to be... then you may consider the parts expensive enough not to replace them when everything is already taken apart.

For those of us less mechanically skilled, I would submit that the parts are relatively cheap-the axle bearing was a bit under $50-and once the labor is invested in doing the work, it's probably best to just prevent future trouble for another 194K miles.

just my 2cents.

 

[Pauly67]

glad that went well for you. I hope it holds up fine for you.

If you're handy enough, and Big Fish and you seem to be... then you may consider the parts expensive enough not to replace them when everything is already taken apart.

For those of us less mechanically skilled, I would submit that the parts are relatively cheap-the axle bearing was a bit under $50-and once the labor is invested in doing the work, it's probably best to just prevent future trouble for another 194K miles.

just my 2cents.

Hey Ron,

I appreciate your input & agree with your thinking.....Problem is I need my truck for work & couldn't afford anymore downtime waiting for parts, since I'm an online shopper & finding someone with a press etc. I went to dealer since seal & o-ring was very inexpensive (Wouldn't even give me shop price on those. I'll get my 20% dsct online....ty) Shipping is equal to the tax I pay locally.

Probably going to do a little more research and order the bearings, seals & retainers for a "planned project" instead of break down repair, especially if i continue to see any grease oozing on the hub. This way I get get the best pricing on parts & can be better prepared to tackle the job. Just want to make sure I know exactly will need to be replaced....

I noticed my OEM bearing is a Nachi bearing. The cheapest OEM I was able to find online was $70, which I still think is overpriced, unless someone tells me they are of higher quality than......SKF, NSK, Timken, Beck Arnley or National bearings which seem to be in the $30-40 range through RockAuto.com

or EBAY...NSK Rear Wheel Bearing | eBay OEM part #???

Any thoughts? Anyone else sell Nachi or Koyo bearings?


:guitar3:
Liking this thread (Chris Geiger) to avoid trip to machine shop.....save more $

rear axle shaft ? - Pirate4x4.Com Bulletin Board !


Final Thoughts on Seal removal & install:

Removal:
Seal Puller w/2 Tips ---- POS...I broke it!

Returned it for the one BigFish used...
Carbon Steel Seal Puller w/Side Handle ----Out with a few taps!!


Install:
I used 2 in PVC coupling and it worked great installing the seal! (perfect size)

Amazing how if you look around the garage you manage to find those SSTs!:trophy:

Thanks, Paul

 

[aha2988]

Reviving an old thread.. But I'm trying to get the axle shaft separated from the hub assembly to replace the hub assembly (my passenger rear bearing has gone bad).. I've tried holding the backing plate and slaming the shaft several times on a hard surface, also put the axle and hub assembly in a press and attempted to press it out I put 12 tons of force on it and the sucker still didn't separate. Whats the deal with these things.. Anybody know a better way to separate the rear axle shaft from the hub assembly??

 

[audiness]

you literally have to take a grinder to the ABS ring and the ABS ring retainers to get it off. that's why everyone ends up replacing a bunch of parts and $$$ when doing this.

 

[aha2988]

you literally have to take a grinder to the ABS ring and the ABS ring retainers to get it off. that's why everyone ends up replacing a bunch of parts and $$$ when doing this.

what would i be grinding off the ABS ring. It just seems to be a retaining clip and a press fit that holds the hub on.. I've got the retaining clip off.. the only thing i havn't tried is heating it up..