Replacement brake options

[Morphyne]

I really want to compose a long report on the what when and whys of brake pads and rotors I have gained from the last 20+ years in motor sports and high performance vehicles, but dont want to bore you with a bunch or boring stats.
Bottom line;
1) Not every customer needs high end brake parts.
2) One should never buy cheap quality components. You get what you pay for.
3) The only reason to buy brake parts is to make your vehicle stop when YOU want it to. So, if you are going to replace components, use at least what came on the vehicle exactly, or hey, if there is a chance of making your vehicle safer by allowing it to stop shorter, which could be the difference of hitting something or someone or not, so why not.
4) There are many options out there, again, its really comes down to budget,your uses, and increasing the potential safety of your vehicle.
5)Cross Drilled rotors on a stock brake package loses around 11% of braking surface material. I rarely sell cross drilled, but when I do its for the slow rock crawler guys. The cross drilled helps remove heat buildup. The slow speeds of rock crawling doesnt allow enough airflow to the rotors which lead to warping, so thats where cross drilled comes in handy. Tpyically, if Cross Drilled are used in other than a stock vehicle, the caliper and rotor size usually increases to compensate for the loss of material.
6) I use Slotted for towing, and fast/spirited driving. Slotted loses maybe 3% of material. While this is a loss, its a positive in the way the slots help draw heat out, cooler air in and helps keep the brake pads free from glaze and performance loss by glazing and buildup.
7) You can never go wrong with OEM products. If treated and bed in correctly, the average user will receive many miles of trouble free operation under normal use.
Just a few tidbits from an old dude!
:lookout:

Help me understand how to "bed" the brakes? I recently rear ended someone and did not feel like my newish brakes (3 months only calipers/pads/rotors) bit well and obviously didn't stop me in time.

 

[Rocket61]

You can always go with the 5th gen caliper set as a replacement for the front of the truck. Most people seem to be going this route with hopes of it solving the frozen piston issues on top of the larger piston area they also provide.

I recently picked this rear kit up in the link below, but have not yet to install. As far as the inspection goes, they do look great.
Z36 Extreme Performance Truck & Tow 1-Click Brake Kit with Calipers | Power Stop.

I will be following this up with a matching front kit as well as 5th gen calipers that I will likely have powdercoated to match.

Trying to find that kit online, can't seem to find one that includes those red callipers. Could you please provide a link? or did you buy from a brick and mortar?

EDIT: never mind, found it online. http://www.jegs.com/p/Power-Stop/Po...Brake-Pad-Rotor-Caliper-Kits/3354760/10002/-1

Which kit did you buy?

 

[paraordnance]

Was that the Z36 kit?

I believe my set was Z23 kit. I think Z36 is a pads only

 

[paraordnance]

Help me understand how to "bed" the brakes? I recently rear ended someone and did not feel like my newish brakes (3 months only calipers/pads/rotors) bit well and obviously didn't stop me in time.

Every pads/rotors set usually comes with instructions on how to bed them properly. Should be similar to all brands but this one is from Power Stop. Please see detailed instructions on website:

brake-pad-break-in-procedure

It is very important procedure and it must be done immediately after install to avoid warped rotors or poor braking performance in the future. This procedure prepares or glazes new rotors with some pad material creating solid foundation for years of use to come. It is very important to find a road where you can accomplish all of these steps without interference from other drivers or pedestrians. I have not very busy rural paved road just couple blocks away from my house. As soon as new rotors and pads installed I trying to get to that road without using my brakes.

1) 5 moderate to aggressive stops from 40 mph down to 10 mph in rapid succession without letting the brakes cool and do not come to a complete stop. If you're forced to stop, either shift into neutral or give room in front so you can allow the vehicle to roll slightly while waiting for the light. The rotors will be very hot and holding down the brake pedal will allow the pad to create an imprint on the rotor. This is where the judder can originate from.

2) Then do 5 moderate stops from 35 mph to 5 mph in rapid succession without letting the brakes cool. You should expect to smell some resin as the brakes get hot.

3)After this is complete, drive around for as long as possible without excessively heating the brakes and without coming to a complete stop (Try for about 5 minutes at moderate speed). This is the cooling stage. It allows the heated resin in the brake pads to cool and cure.

After the brakes have cooled to standard operating temperature, you may use the brakes normally.

 

[lcbjr77]

I just double checked on Jegs' website

There are two Power Stop packages (4 rotors and front/rears pads)
#23 is sport

#36 is Truck & Tow

I wonder which one is best for the 4runner?

I believe my set was Z23 kit. I think Z36 is a pads only

 

[Morphyne]

Every pads/rotors set usually comes with instructions on how to bed them properly. Should be similar to all brands but this one is from Power Stop. Please see detailed instructions on website:

brake-pad-break-in-procedure

It is very important procedure and it must be done immediately after install to avoid warped rotors or poor braking performance in the future. This procedure prepares or glazes new rotors with some pad material creating solid foundation for years of use to come. It is very important to find a road where you can accomplish all of these steps without interference from other drivers or pedestrians. I have not very busy rural paved road just couple blocks away from my house. As soon as new rotors and pads installed I trying to get to that road without using my brakes.

1) 5 moderate to aggressive stops from 40 mph down to 10 mph in rapid succession without letting the brakes cool and do not come to a complete stop. If you're forced to stop, either shift into neutral or give room in front so you can allow the vehicle to roll slightly while waiting for the light. The rotors will be very hot and holding down the brake pedal will allow the pad to create an imprint on the rotor. This is where the judder can originate from.

2) Then do 5 moderate stops from 35 mph to 5 mph in rapid succession without letting the brakes cool. You should expect to smell some resin as the brakes get hot.

3)After this is complete, drive around for as long as possible without excessively heating the brakes and without coming to a complete stop (Try for about 5 minutes at moderate speed). This is the cooling stage. It allows the heated resin in the brake pads to cool and cure.

After the brakes have cooled to standard operating temperature, you may use the brakes normally.

2 questions one so is there any point in trying to do this 3 months after the fact? Into why doesn't this happen for new vehicles.?

 

[paraordnance]

2 questions one so is there any point in trying to do this 3 months after the fact? Into why doesn't this happen for new vehicles.?

You can re-bed 3 months later. Do your rotors look like having even layer of pad material deposited? Kinda blueish? If no. Its not late, I think. Until they are properly bedded, brakes simply do not work as well as they can. Same applies for new vehicles. You can jump in brand new vehicle, never bed-in and have poor performance from the start. It certainly does happens with new vehicles as well

 

[paraordnance]

I just double checked on Jegs' website

There are two Power Stop packages (4 rotors and front/rears pads)
#23 is sport

#36 is Truck & Tow

I wonder which one is best for the 4runner?

I just double checked my order. My kit was "Power Stop Heavy Duty Truck and Tow Brake Kit" PSTK2421 (front only). So yes, Z36. Make sure you get right rotor size. I did calipers upgrade so I could install bigger 338 mm rotors, which this kit are. Very happy with performance.

 

[Mike07SE]

Trying to find that kit online, can't seem to find one that includes those red callipers. Could you please provide a link? or did you buy from a brick and mortar?

EDIT: never mind, found it online. Power Stop Truck and Tow Z36 Brake Pad, Rotor & Caliper Kits | Power Stop

Which kit did you buy?

Verbatim from the site:

TRUCK & TOW BRAKE KIT WITH CALIPERS
Z36 CARBON-CERAMIC PADS, DRILLED & SLOTTED ROTORS WITH POWDER COATED CALIPERS

I bought these from Rock Auto

I need to get on the ball and order the front 5th Gen calipers so I can get them powder coated to match the rear. I will add the Power Stop Z36 Rotor/Pad front kit to match the rear.

 

[Tooltime19]

PARAORDNANCE hit the nail on the head perfectly! I will go one step further and this is the biggie that causes all the heart ache... Im kinda OCD when it comes to maint so bear with me here.
1) The absolute key in the bedding process is DO NOT PARK THE TRUCK WITH HOT ROTORS! During the bedding process those rotors and pads become heat soaked. And although people follow the instructions and just like PARA said, do not sit at a traffic light with your foot on the brake and or as he also stated, let the vehicle roll as to not sit in one spot for too long. But again, the biggest thing I see with people is they are still putting the truck to bed with hot pads and rotors. My bed in process takes quite a while. I have a pretty good route I take for all my test drives and bed in processes. I live in the hot desert southwest and in the summer time, the bed process takes longer because its 110 degrees out side, and it makes for cooling the brakes off a real chore.
2) This goes for any vehicle. Lets say you are driving around in a spirited manner and you know you got your brakes warm, lets say fast stops, stop and go traffic or driving around like Mario Andretti. Just like in any form of racing, you need a "cool down" lap. I know it sounds crazy, but hey, if you dont want warped rotors you need to do this. For me, I try to think about the last couple miles to my house or destination and start driving human again by slowing down, not sitting on the brake pedal at a light and letting the car sit in neutral and rolling the pads on the rotor so the pads and rotor dont sit together too long. I know it sounds crazy, but hey it works. I havent warped a rotor in over 20+ years. Centric makes the Power Slot Slotted rotors.

 

[lcbjr77]

Would starting the bed in process work well if i start it on city/main roads then do the cool down by hopping on the highway for a few miles?

 

[paraordnance]

Would starting the bed in process work well if i start it on city/main roads then do the cool down by hopping on the highway for a few miles?

That's what I do as well, just go for long slow drive without any braking. Highway works great!

 

[grave]

PARAORDNANCE hit the nail on the head perfectly! I will go one step further and this is the biggie that causes all the heart ache... Im kinda OCD when it comes to maint so bear with me here.
1) The absolute key in the bedding process is DO NOT PARK THE TRUCK WITH HOT ROTORS! During the bedding process those rotors and pads become heat soaked. And although people follow the instructions and just like PARA said, do not sit at a traffic light with your foot on the brake and or as he also stated, let the vehicle roll as to not sit in one spot for too long. But again, the biggest thing I see with people is they are still putting the truck to bed with hot pads and rotors. My bed in process takes quite a while. I have a pretty good route I take for all my test drives and bed in processes. I live in the hot desert southwest and in the summer time, the bed process takes longer because its 110 degrees out side, and it makes for cooling the brakes off a real chore.
2) This goes for any vehicle. Lets say you are driving around in a spirited manner and you know you got your brakes warm, lets say fast stops, stop and go traffic or driving around like Mario Andretti. Just like in any form of racing, you need a "cool down" lap. I know it sounds crazy, but hey, if you dont want warped rotors you need to do this. For me, I try to think about the last couple miles to my house or destination and start driving human again by slowing down, not sitting on the brake pedal at a light and letting the car sit in neutral and rolling the pads on the rotor so the pads and rotor dont sit together too long. I know it sounds crazy, but hey it works. I havent warped a rotor in over 20+ years. Centric makes the Power Slot Slotted rotors.

i'm replacing my front rotors this weekend and i hope i can get the bedding process right. luckily the friend who is helping me lives right off a highway that will be good for this. UNfortunately, i will probably sit in some LA traffic on the way home, so i hope i don't fuxk 'em up right after bedding them in.

i will be doing the following maintenance this weekend: engine oil/filter change, t-case & diff oil change, spark plugs, front brakes. do you recommend doing the brakes first or last?

 

[vastano]

I didnt read through the entire thread, but I priced out a full 5th gen retrofit (calipers, rotors, pads) for the front only on RockAuto the other day. It came to about $200 after core charges. This is dependent on the rotors and pads you buy.

 

[CXS]

I'm sure some people with say Raybestos aren't the best choice since that's the way forums are but I had Les Schwab replace my front calipers, rotors & pads for $538.00 and I'm happy with their work and product. Looking at what some of you are spending for parts just figured to throw it out there.

 

[Tooltime19]

You can do all your maintenance items including the brakes at any time throughout the day. Just remember at some point you will have to bed in your newly installed brake parts. Good luck and let us know how it goes.

 

[grave]

thanks, i will. i've been bookmarking all the threads that have good walkthroughs of each thing i'm doing.

 

[Tooltime19]

Should you have any questions, feel free to ask away or pm me.

 

[unevolved]

I thought the drilled and slotted were for race cars and cracking was an issue with them. Is that no longer the case?

Drilled rotors are 100% for looks. The state-of-the-art in braking does NOT use drilled rotors anymore, because they're too prone to cracking.

Sources:

New Ford GT with Brembo XA8.31.11/12 calipers and iron rotors:

C7.R with AP Racing Radi-Cal:

Porsche 991 GT3R with PFC Brakes:

You won't find anyone harder on iron brakes than endurace racing sports cars. Rules limit them to iron rotors, so they're doing everything they can to get the most performance out of them.

Yes, you still see drilled holes on high-end street cars (Lamborghinis, Ferraris, Porsches, etc.) because it looks cool, and it sells cars. Simple as that.

 

[grave]

Should you have any questions, feel free to ask away or pm me.

Thanks, I will!