Ride Quality Questions/ Observations.

[fmixman]

So, I have a 1 week old SR5 5th Gen. The truck is awesome, for anyone who didn't read my intro post, I was set to purchase an FJ, the 2011 TT SE to be specific, when Toyo screwed that all up, I looked hard at the 4R and for me, it made a lot more sense.

This is my daily driver, and I cover a few states for work, so I will do 20k+ a year in the truck, I am a truck guy, I know you all know what I mean, because you have one as well, but I will probably never have this truck off road to nearly the extent it is capable of. So here is the main observation and questions after about 800 miles of driving.

The SR5 rides "ok" on road, I find the suspension boat like, and it loves to dive during breaking, and it will body-roll like the best of em...

I looked at the trail when I purchased the SR5, but for the money could not see the kenetic suspension cost making any sense for me. Please don't take it wrong, but when I read how the system un-hooks the sway, I was like- ew, that is just begging to break somehow. I could be waaay off here, but I am old skool, and I either manually unhook my sway or its connected, I see electronics doing this as a bad thing. again, my .02

So, I ask, has anyone done better suspension to the truck for daily driving? I see Icon makes some great stuff, and without doing any real lift, would this type of system increase road handling in the 4R? I am really doing for ride quality and not capability off road in this question. So, let me know your thoughts and experience here.

 

[mikey's2010SR5]

I felt the same way about my stock suspension, but I knew going in and buying this truck I would most likely be lifting it. I'm using the OW/Radflo 2.5 kit and I put about 21,000 on mine in one year. It rides like a truck now, but still very comfortable for a DD truck. Did I mention the lift was an added bonus. Yes I took a hit on gas mileage but I knew that going in. I am super happy with mine.

 

[fmixman]

Mike, you and I have the exact same truck! Your's looks awesome with the black rims! I too want loose the chrome and make it black.

How much is the OW setup? and do you have to lift any? or can you keep the stock ride height?

 

[SeattleMike]

I looked at the trail when I purchased the SR5, but for the money could not see the kenetic suspension cost making any sense for me. Please don't take it wrong, but when I read how the system un-hooks the sway, I was like- ew, that is just begging to break somehow. I could be waaay off here, but I am old skool, and I either manually unhook my sway or its connected, I see electronics doing this as a bad thing. again, my .02

Yes, you are "waaay off". It's not going to suddenly disconnect a sway bar while tooling down the highway. From the repair manual:

In the KDSS (Kinetic Dynamic Suspension System), a cylinder is installed to each of the front and rear stabilizer bars. The front and rear cylinder upper chambers and the front and rear lower chambers are each connected by a pipe. The hydraulic circuit is filled with high-pressure suspension fluid. The stabilizer control ECU controls the stabilizer control solenoid valves according to input signals from sensor.

It doesn't eliminate nosedive but it almost completely eliminates body roll. It's purpose is not to be better off-road but to improve handling on pavement, while negating the effect of having a large swaybar off-road. It remains no matter what you do with your other suspension components, unlike XREAS, and it costs less than an ICON Stage 2. Based on my experience and that related by people with SR5's, if on road performance was what you wanted... you should have done more research on KDSS because I think you misunderstood what it does. Just my two cents.

 

[4RBob]

"It's purpose is not to be better off-road but to improve handling on pavement, while negating the effect of having a large swaybar off-road."

No, it's intended purpose was to be better off-road. Effectively, making it act like a loosely connected swaybar giving you more articulation. The side benefit is having a larger (stiffer) swaybar on-road.

 

[SeattleMike]

"It's purpose is not to be better off-road but to improve handling on pavement, while negating the effect of having a large swaybar off-road."

No, it's intended purpose was to be better off-road. Effectively, making it act like a loosely connected swaybar giving you more articulation. The side benefit is having a larger (stiffer) swaybar on-road.

No.. seriously. It's purpose was on-road handling. It's first implementation was not on a rock crawler, but on an LX 470. That's not a vehicle that screams "take me in the dirt!". Larger sway bars are for the road, where ~95% of people drive, and have no use off road. Off-road articulation was already established, on road handling was not. Enter KDSS, where you keep the articulation and gain handling.

 

[desertred]

Hmmm..... is it possible to add KDSS to a SR5? If so, does anyone know what the system would cost (parts)? Has anyone tried it?

 

[aspade]

It remains no matter what you do with your other suspension components, unlike XREAS, and it costs less than an ICON Stage 2.

Yes and no. $1750 for KDSS is no brainer.

But checking that $1750 box requires the $4500 Trail trim and the $2500 Nav.

 

[4RBob]

No.. seriously. It's purpose was on-road handling.

hmmm, why do they only offer it on the Trail then? KDSS does add articulation. that is it's purpose.

larger sway bar is for on-road, but you don't need a complex system like the KDSS to accomplish that. just make a standard swaybar thicker.

 

[M1911]

The SR5 rides "ok" on road, I find the suspension boat like, and it loves to dive during breaking, and it will body-roll like the best of em...

I looked at the trail when I purchased the SR5, but for the money could not see the kenetic suspension cost making any sense for me.

Sorry to be a jerk, but I think you would have found the Limited with XREAS or Trail with KDSS to be a better daily driver, with significantly less body-roll in corners.

 

[fmixman]

Yes and no. $1750 for KDSS is no brainer.

But checking that $1750 box requires the $4500 Trail trim and the $2500 Nav.

Right, Maybe that is what killed it for me.

Seattlemike-
I did drive the trail with KDSS, and I do agree body roll was waaay less, If it was an option for the SR5, I might have done it, but-

I still feel KDSS seems like a lot of stuff moving, I mean cylinders, and fluids, and electronic connections. LOL, with my luck, that would mean =repair costs! LOL. Again, old guy, had a 1986 CJ, no sway bars, just springs and axles, I would like that better off road, in the end, I guess it's the best of both worlds. you have a great off road truck, that handles well on road as well. :hatsoff:

I do look at the trail trim and wish I could have some of those black parts... Chrome, is not my first choice.

 

[fmixman]

1911, no offence taken, I mean, your name is one of my favorite side arms, so you are cool in my book...

I agree, the trail or limited would be a better ride, but as stated above, the check box for better handling meant you add A LOT of thousands to the bottom line... I probably would have a few of those features, if they allowed you to pick and choose- ala cart style.

 

[SeattleMike]

hmmm, why do they only offer it on the Trail then? KDSS does add articulation. that is it's purpose.

larger sway bar is for on-road, but you don't need a complex system like the KDSS to accomplish that. just make a standard swaybar thicker.

Sure, KDSS allows articulation, but you can do that manually and most people without KDSS who want that extra articulation (like the OP) do just that. But you can't manually change the size of the swaybars on the fly. They gave the Limited XREAS... and nothing on the SR5, why? If swaybars alone were the answer, why did they skimp on the other two? They weren't looking for a way to provide off-roaders more articulation, they were looking for a way to make it handle smoother. And they don't only offer it on the Trail, they offer on the Lexus and the Land Cruiser, among other models available elsewhere.

You obviously believe differently. We can just drop it or we can continue debating "chicken or the egg" if you wish.

 

[4RBob]

"Trail’s available Kinetic Dynamic Suspension System (KDSS). When pavement ends,
priorities change. Which is why 4Runner puts serious off-road tools at your disposal.
KDSS relaxes sway control for enhanced wheel articulation over deep ruts and off-camber
obstacles. Yet even our most off-road-ready model — Trail — doesn’t compromise
on-road driving comfort and handling."

 

[4RBob]

"Kinetic Dynamic Suspension System (KDSS)
Traditional suspension systems are tuned to perform well on paved
roads, but they can compromise off-road performance. KDSS
automatically optimizes suspension performance both on the highway
and off. On the road, it helps suppress body roll to enhance cornering
performance. Off road, KDSS relaxes sway control on rough terrain for
increased suspension articulation. This helps tires maintain contact
with the ground on uneven terrain, and minimizes body tilt."

 

[4RBob]

They gave the Limited XREAS because it improves handling, but did not care about improving it's articulation. The SR5 did not get either because it is the base model.

Look at JK Rubicons, they have electronic disconnecting swaybars. Was this to improve on-road handling? I don't think so.

 

[M1911]

1911, no offence taken, I mean, your name is one of my favorite side arms, so you are cool in my book...

Mine, too.

I agree, the trail or limited would be a better ride, but as stated above, the check box for better handling meant you add A LOT of thousands to the bottom line...

No argument there, they are a lot more spendy.

 

[SeattleMike]

They gave the Limited XREAS because it improves handling, but did not care about improving it's articulation. The SR5 did not get either because it is the base model.

Look at JK Rubicons, they have electronic disconnecting swaybars. Was this to improve on-road handling? I don't think so.

Look at FJ Cruisers, not one version with KDSS. If it was such a valuable off-road tool, why did Toyota have it on the Lexus for the entire life span of the FJ and NOT offer it, not even as an option.

KDSS allows otherwise off-road worthy vehicles to reclaim some of the road manners they had to give up prior to it's introduction.

 

[harper7]

Look at FJ Cruisers, not one version with KDSS. If it was such a valuable off-road tool, why did Toyota have it on the Lexus for the entire life span of the FJ and NOT offer it, not even as an option.

KDSS allows otherwise off-road worthy vehicles to reclaim some of the road manners they had to give up prior to it's introduction.

NAILED IT!

KDSS is special in that you have great ON ROAD manners with the big sway bars and still have the articulation of the skinnier bars of the Limited and SR5.

Basically if you didn't have the hydraulic cylinders pushing down or up on a big giant sway bar like the TE with KDSS has, your articulation would be LESS and the limiting factor.

Great system and the price to add it to a SR5 or Limited would be astronomical because even the frames and rear axles are different. There are extra brackets welded on to the TE frames and axles from the factory and even have different part numbers then the SR5/Limiteds, not to mention different wiring harnesses,switches, accumulators and control modules ect. ect. ect.
NOBODY will ever add KDSS to a 4Runner.Cheaper and easier to just buy one with it already.

 

[SeattleMike]

Seattlemike-
I did drive the trail with KDSS, and I do agree body roll was waaay less, If it was an option for the SR5, I might have done it, but-

I still feel KDSS seems like a lot of stuff moving, I mean cylinders, and fluids, and electronic connections. LOL, with my luck, that would mean =repair costs! LOL. Again, old guy, had a 1986 CJ, no sway bars, just springs and axles, I would like that better off road, in the end, I guess it's the best of both worlds. you have a great off road truck, that handles well on road as well. :hatsoff:

I do look at the trail trim and wish I could have some of those black parts... Chrome, is not my first choice.

The funny part about all this is that I went with the Trail for the rear locker and the cloth seats and the better A/D angles. KDSS was a "meh" feature for me until I actually started driving the truck daily. As the months wore on, the more impressed I am with it.

The added cost sucks, but at least I'll retain it when I upgrade the suspension, unlike the XREAS system. Now, the optimal combination would be a trail body with a locker, Torsen center diff, and KDSS... with a V8. But then you'd have a Land Cruiser rather than a 4Runner.

Congrats on your new truck, btw. Check out the Overland Warehouse suspension sets while you are shopping.