Roof rack controversy. Gobi Vs Whitson

[gnargnarpowpow]

Hello all.

I am going to try to keep this short as I don't know the whole story but I'm sure someone can find out more information than me. I'm a long time lurker of the forums.

I purchased a Whitson Metalworks 4th gen rack and was super excited to get it... until I received this email.

Gentlemen,

This email is going out to all of my current, queued customers.

It is with a truly broken heart that I must refund any and all deposits and cancel all orders. Due to very unwelcome and unforeseen legal issues having arisen in this small industry, I am at a stand still as things proceed towards resolution. My hands are tied and I'm well aware that many of your plans will be upset by this sudden cancellation. I have several light bars in the shop and those will be sent to you as quickly as possible. If your deposit was sent via paypal, it will be refunded promptly. Those of you who mailed payment will need to send a mailing address for return payment. Please reply to this email, if necessary, with shipping or mailing instructions.

Thank you all for your support and please accept my most sincere apologies!

Josh Whitson

So after a little digging, it looks like Gobi(Intelligent Designs 2000 Corporation) is suing Josh on some patent issues. In my opinion it feels like Gobi is trying ruin him by tying him up in court over this patent issue. It would be great to hear what everyone thinks about this.

I'm just going to leave this here to be discussed.

 

[gc11090]

Well.. There go my plans for my next mod. Hope Josh gets through this somehow.

 

[Sisente]

I hate when bigger companies squash the little guys. Not sure if Josh took ideas from their design, or what. Just hate to see things like this.

 

[Range]

Well it doesn't take a genius to see that the designs are very similar. As far as patents are concerned I don't really see what Gobi has that is so special even if I am the proud owner of a Gobi rack. I can see Bajarack having a patent on their Spylight system but Gobi I don't see.

 

[Osmith]

Josh has been doing Buisness for several years and it's taken gobi this long to say something? Sounds fishy to me. I personally love my WM rack and will always support small businesses. Wish I knew more details so I can support Josh.

 

[Unner]

That sucks if that's whats actually happening. I was on the waiting list as well and got the same email. I asked if he thinks he will be producing more racks later on and he said "Due to the slow nature of any legal issue, it will likely be quite a while before I build another rack."

I think you may be right, gnargnarpowpow, about the issue, that's something I could see happening unfortunately. I'm hoping another member here will come up with a design for a 3rd gen rack of his own that I like and I'll go with that most likely then. I never wanted to pay the ridiculous price for a Gobi rack and if they are going around eliminating small business' like Josh's then I am even less inclined to support them.

 

[470SNC]

That really blows of big companies doing this to small companies because they know the small companies can't afford to fight back. Reminds of Metaltechs lawsuit against Demello Offroad and a bunch of other small fab companies on their slider "kickout" patent. It's a damn dirty shame, it's not like the big companies aren't making tons of money as is.

 

[Ducmonsta]

Every company starts somewhere and it's usually small. They create products and hopefully have the intelligence to stake claim on a patent. Consider that Gobi at some point was as small as Josh @ Whitson. I have nothing in this fight and only wish that it be resolved correctly and through proper legal action. If in fact Whitson Metalworks is infringing on any patents owned by Gobi, then the outcome should be obvious. It's quite possible that Josh didn't know there was an infringement and needs to create a slightly different product so it does not violate any patent laws.

I don't believe Gobi would have the time and effort to "go after" smaller businesses unless it affects their bottom line. It costs larger companies money to bring law suits too. There's also a reason Gobi is a "larger" company and it could have been built on one single patent. I would not want to take that away from them as they've earned it.

 

[wadle5]

Truly sad I am absolutely hoping there isn't any infringement as the other company is claiming. And if so I hope he can tweak the design a little bit to truly make it his own if thats the case. I will say I do love my WM and if/when I were to get a 5th gen I would support him as well.

 

[philskeeter]

I agree with Ducmonsta on how they probably didn't sue him just for fun and they can afford it (IF that's what is happening). Time will tell who was wrong and right. But in the nature of supply and demand I've got a WMW 4th gen rack line-x'd that I'd be willing to sell to anyone who really wanted one.

 

[Unner]

Every company starts somewhere and it's usually small. They create products and hopefully have the intelligence to stake claim on a patent. Consider that Gobi at some point was as small as Josh @ Whitson. I have nothing in this fight and only wish that it be resolved correctly and through proper legal action. If in fact Whitson Metalworks is infringing on any patents owned by Gobi, then the outcome should be obvious. It's quite possible that Josh didn't know there was an infringement and needs to create a slightly different product so it does not violate any patent laws.

I don't believe Gobi would have the time and effort to "go after" smaller businesses unless it affects their bottom line. It costs larger companies money to bring law suits too. There's also a reason Gobi is a "larger" company and it could have been built on one single patent. I would not want to take that away from them as they've earned it.

Oh I definitly agree, they worked to get there and they deserve it but it seems like more often than not they are suing over something small and petty. I guess we won't know for a while what is truly happening if we ever do at all.

I agree with Ducmonsta on how they probably didn't sue him just for fun and they can afford it (IF that's what is happening). Time will tell who was wrong and right. But in the nature of supply and demand I've got a WMW 4th gen rack line-x'd that I'd be willing to sell to anyone who really wanted one.

If that fit a 3rd gen I'd be driving down to T-Town to pick it up right now haha

 

[cbielat]

That's too bad. Wonder what exactly happened? I spoke to him recently about a rack for my 5th gen. I mean how different can these racks get? Between all of the companies, they look very similar to each other. Surprised we don't hear of more of this going on not only with roof racks. Look at the roof top tents. Every one of those look the same. Same goes for bumpers, skids and sliders.

 

[LC2013]

I agree with Ducmonsta on how they probably didn't sue him just for fun and they can afford it (IF that's what is happening). Time will tell who was wrong and right. But in the nature of supply and demand I've got a WMW 4th gen rack line-x'd that I'd be willing to sell to anyone who really wanted one.

Price?

 

[Ducmonsta]

That's too bad. Wonder what exactly happened? I spoke to him recently about a rack for my 5th gen. I mean how different can these racks get? Between all of the companies, they look very similar to each other. Surprised we don't hear of more of this going on not only with roof racks. Look at the roof top tents. Every one of those look the same. Same goes for bumpers, skids and sliders.

It's possible there isn't a patent involved with RTTs. You can find a cookie cutter for almost anything in consumer products. Just look at all the look alike Yeti coolers.

 

[Bob J]

So sad to hear this..... I love my WM rack and Josh is a stand up guy....

 

[Munf]

It is unfortunate, but you have to realize at the end of the day GOBI is a business, they spend a lot of money on patents trademarks ect to protect what they started and to fend off people trying to undercut them. Id much rather purchase a rack from josh thats handmade than a factory rack from gobi.

I'm assuming josh didn't think his business would blow up this big and didn't do his due diligence to cover his ass when he started mass producing. Id take it as a valuable learning experience

What gobi is doing is justifiable when you look at it from a business aspect. Joshs business was a direct competitor to gobi which is an accomplishment in its own. They aren't trying to be personal and honestly if i were josh i would see it as compliment. Gobi is obviously threatened by josh and his business and josh is an incredibly talented metalworker. With that being said after its all said and done, i think josh will bounce back just fine.

 

[philskeeter]

Price?

It won't end up selling because I wouldn't take less than what I paid for it minus the line-x and whoever got it would still need to pay for shipping. I through it out there for the hell of it but I've had it 2-3 months so it's not like I'd sell it for $400 like a crappy rack on the current market.

 

[Whitson Metalworks]

Where do I even begin to explain how I feel about this mess? Most of you may not know but I have a pretty bad anxiety problem, and a lawsuit is the last thing I needed to worry about and add to my plate! Since the thread has been created, I may as well say my piece and then leave it be.

First, I never expected to still be building racks. The fact that I still am is largely due to the support I've received from the T4R.org community and I'm truly thankful for it.

When I decided to build a rack for myself, I looked at what was available on the market and figured I can build a better low-profile roof rack, so I came up with my 3rd gen design. I still have the very index card I wrote all of my bend measurements on 3 years ago, I use it on every build. I have no idea how a piece of paper has lasted so long with so many trips through a greasy, gloved hand and hasn't been set on fire from grinder sparks or welding spatter.

I had no knowledge of patents or the ins and outs thereof, I wasn't planning to build the same product so who cares, right? Eventually the 4th gen rack came to be; basically a wider version of the 3rd gen rack with a different mounting setup. Fast forward to a few weeks ago when my mother called me at work late one night. Thinking that's pretty odd I give her a shout and she lays the news on me...a lawsuit had been filed. Anxiety through the roof! No sleep, no eat, no smiles, bad times. We look at the lawsuit, we see their patent, and it's immediately apparent that it's different from every angle. They're as similar as one brand of pickup truck is to another brand of pickup truck. They're different from the top, from the side, from the front, and from the back. Reading into patent law has tought me that's there's a lot to patent law I'll never understand. One thing that sucked to learn was how ridiculously expensive patent litigation is. As all of you are aware, I'm a one-man operation. This is very much a David and Goliath situation and basically, just fighting this, right or wrong, will put me so far under the table it's crazy. I have my own theories as of to why exactly the suit was brought, many of you share those same ideas. For obvious reasons, I can't divulge specifics of the issue until all the dust settles and I can see what's left. The lawsuit itself is a matter of public record and it makes me so sick I get tired of seeing my own name in print. I'm doing my best to keep going and keep the shop lease paid. Who knows, I may finally have time to play with bumpers or something... Everyone is welcome to their own opinion and once again, I appreciate the support I've received from this forum. If you're the praying type, keep me in your prayers as this is a very stressful time for my family and I.

To all those who's orders I had to forego: please feel free to email at any time. If or when I'm able, I'll gladly work with any of you again.

 

[philskeeter]

Where do I even begin to explain how I feel about this mess? Most of you may not know but I have a pretty bad anxiety problem, and a lawsuit is the last thing I needed to worry about and add to my plate! Since the thread has been created, I may as well say my piece and then leave it be.

First, I never expected to still be building racks. The fact that I still am is largely due to the support I've received from the T4R.org community and I'm truly thankful for it.

When I decided to build a rack for myself, I looked at what was available on the market and figured I can build a better low-profile roof rack, so I came up with my 3rd gen design. I still have the very index card I wrote all of my bend measurements on 3 years ago, I use it on every build. I have no idea how a piece of paper has lasted so long with so many trips through a greasy, gloved hand and hasn't been set on fire from grinder sparks or welding spatter.

I had no knowledge of patents or the ins and outs thereof, I wasn't planning to build the same product so who cares, right? Eventually the 4th gen rack came to be; basically a wider version of the 3rd gen rack with a different mounting setup. Fast forward to a few weeks ago when my mother called me at work late one night. Thinking that's pretty odd I give her a shout and she lays the news on me...a lawsuit had been filed. Anxiety through the roof! No sleep, no eat, no smiles, bad times. We look at the lawsuit, we see their patent, and it's immediately apparent that it's different from every angle. They're as similar as one brand of pickup truck is to another brand of pickup truck. They're different from the top, from the side, from the front, and from the back. Reading into patent law has tought me that's there's a lot to patent law I'll never understand. One thing that sucked to learn was how ridiculously expensive patent litigation is. As all of you are aware, I'm a one-man operation. This is very much a David and Goliath situation and basically, just fighting this, right or wrong, will put me so far under the table it's crazy. I have my own theories as of to why exactly the suit was brought, many of you share those same ideas. For obvious reasons, I can't divulge specifics of the issue until all the dust settles and I can see what's left. The lawsuit itself is a matter of public record and it makes me so sick I get tired of seeing my own name in print. I'm doing my best to keep going and keep the shop lease paid. Who knows, I may finally have time to play with bumpers or something...* Everyone is welcome to their own opinion and once again, I appreciate the support I've received from this forum.* If you're the praying type, keep me in your prayers as this is a very stressful time for my family and I.

To all those who's orders I had to forego: please feel free to email at any time. If or when I'm able, I'll gladly work with any of you again.

I'll definitely have you in my prayers. Kinda off subject but my anxiety has gotten progressivley worse over the last year and it's getting difficult to handle. My mom wants me to go in and get some meds but I'm not a big fan of that. Do you take anything or just find a way to deal with it.

 

[470SNC]

Josh, you will be in my prayers, and I am behind you 100%, support small business!

Also like Josh stated, a big company like Gobi has a generic patent on their rack, although the Whitson rack is similar, even if it doesnt enfringe on their patent, small companies will still need to put money into lawyers and court to fight back. Most small companies dont have the money or resources to fight back even when their product is not enfriging on the actual patent and have to resort to just standing down without even a fight.

I understand business is business but that is not in any way respectable to me and I will never support a company that has to resort to these kinds of BS tactics.