Roof rack controversy. Gobi Vs Whitson

[CPT2nr88]

I know this doesn't really contribute to the topic but.. she's a freaking owner?!?! She gave me the run around for over 3 months telling me my ladder was either at the powder coaters or with fedex every time I contacted Gobi. I thought she was a sales associate, not an owner.

According to company records yes. Also, during their yearly filings in 2012 she refereed to herself as Sandra Badillo. Which I'm not sure if it was a mistake or if they are married. I have been looking through online marriage records and I can't find anything only a prior marriage. But I have some theories which I will keep to myself since they aren't really relevant to this discussion, although they are quite scandalous!

I am still waiting for Paul to answer my questions... I'm really quite curious as to what his answer is about trying to shut down this thread.

 

[sn0wrunner]

Nothing to see here people. Keep scrolling... opcorn:

 

[momo.75]

1) I will try to answer you questions with as much information as possible but keep it short. Yes, we have been burned in the past by bad business partners which is unrelated to the off road market and had no choice but to enter into a litigation battle in order to stay alive and it costed us time, money and a few years off our life. We are not interested in putting Mr. Whitson out of business this is what i mean about "it's not what you think".
2) I only know of Mr. Whitson thru reading his postings which is to say I don't know him at all but in today's business atmosphere sometimes a complaint needs to be served in order to get someone's full attention. I believe if Intelligent Designs did not send a complaint to Mr. Whitson eventually someone else will. Mr. Whitson needs to do more homework before he decides to sell a product just in case he is stepping on someones toes. As I said before we are not out to destroy anyone's business we simply need to speak with Mr. Whitson so we can resolve this matter.
3) Your right about this not being normal business practice I am on this forum talking with you when in reality I should let my attorneys do all the talking. It's taken many years of hard work and money to get to where we are today and it has not been easy to say the least. No, we are not looking for royalties and i cannot get into specifics about this matter at this time. We would just like to have Mr. Whitson answer the complaint.
I hope this helps.

thank you.

I think it might help ease the pain and distaste the forum has collectively and admittedly a little harshly dished out to hear that you and or Gobi is not looking for a financial settlement now or in the future and that you just want to "discus" the design elements and come to an agreement on what's fair for both parties.

I believe this would go a long way to repair the conclusions that some of us have jumped to here. I think it's safe to say that we all like competing products and we'd much rather see your talents be put to use in coming up with a better mouse trap in the end instead of just lining the pockets of the company through a loop hole in the law. I believe we all win if this helps motivate not only Whinston to innovate but also Gobi.

Thank you for coming here to share your side of the story, i hope that this can be resolved in a way that benefits the off roading community as a whole.

 

[nitrag]

https://www.google.com/patents/USD5...ved=0CCUQ6AEwAWoVChMIwOeC3bW4xwIVhRqSCh0iVw0g

https://www.google.com/patents/US8496146

Really?? Those are the patents being "infringed" upon??

 

[Thai]

I think it might help ease the pain and distaste the forum has collectively and admittedly a little harshly dished out to hear that you and or Gobi is not looking for a financial settlement now or in the future and that you just want to "discus" the design elements and come to an agreement on what's fair for both parties.

I believe this would go a long way to repair the conclusions that some of us have jumped to here. I think it's safe to say that we all like competing products and we'd much rather see your talents be put to use in coming up with a better mouse trap in the end instead of just lining the pockets of the company through a loop hole in the law. I believe we all win if this helps motivate not only Whinston to innovate but also Gobi.

Thank you for coming here to share your side of the story, i hope that this can be resolved in a way that benefits the off roading community as a whole.

Finally agree with you in this thread. There was no need to jump to conclusion.

 

[CPT2nr88]

1) I will try to answer you questions with as much information as possible but keep it short. Yes, we have been burned in the past by bad business partners which is unrelated to the off road market and had no choice but to enter into a litigation battle in order to stay alive and it costed us time, money and a few years off our life. We are not interested in putting Mr. Whitson out of business this is what i mean about "it's not what you think".

Lets add a 4th question that I would like to get answered. Can you elaborate on this? All public records that I can find about yourself or your company indicate that you have been on the dishing out side, not the receiving end of "bad business practices" And cannot find anything to support your claim. It sounds to me like you wrote that solely for the purpose of trying to get people here to pity you.

and in case you missed my other Questions:

I have a few questions...

First, why not contact WMW directly rather than filing a complaint in a legal court? Perhaps you may not be as familiar with Law practices as I am, but a legal complaint isn't simply someone simply raising awareness to another party. It is by definition, "the initiation of a civil lawsuit"



It doesn't turn into a lawsuit, it is a lawsuit! It was filed on the 28th of July and assigned a judge tor preside over it before WMW was even notified. Additionally 1 day later the court date was assigned.

I am floored that ID2 wasn't aware of this after their 10 month legal battle over the phone case in 2011. or perhaps the similar dispute in 2008?

Second, why on earth did Gobi attempt to censor this forum?


I find it very unlikely that the forum Admin would lie about that...

Third, why come on here at all? I'm willing to bet legal council advised against it. Seems to me like you suddenly have cold feet about this lawsuit and may have realized you might have actually bit off more than you can chew with this one.

 

[wadle5]

1) We are NOT interested in putting Mr. Whitson OUT OF BUSINESS this is what i mean about "it's not what you think".
2) I believe if Intelligent Designs did not send a complaint to Mr. Whitson eventually someone else will. Mr. Whitson needs to do more homework before he decides to sell a product just in case he is stepping on someones toes. As I said before WE ARE NOT OUT TO DESTROY anyone's business we simply need to speak with Mr. Whitson so we can resolve this matter.
3) No, WE ARE NOT LOOKING FOR ROYALTIES and i cannot get into specifics about this matter at this time. We would just like to have Mr. Whitson answer the complaint.
I hope this helps.

thank you.

Thank You sir for the response BUT,
You on several occasions(as shown above in bold) say you aren't wanting to put him under and/or aren't expecting royalties:

Section IV:
20. has caused damage to ID2 in an amount to be ascertained at trial.(could be any amount?!)
Section V:
27. has caused damage to ID2 in an amount to be ascertained at trial.(same as above)

Section VI.
c. Issuing a permanent injunction". ... ."from further activities that constitute infringement(keeping in mind the patent is "a roof rack")
D. Awarding ID2 damages. .... ."reasonable" ROYALTY for each act.(again the vagueness of legal term could actually sink the opposing company)

Also you strategically never answered my part of the initial question about only pursuing WMW and Baja and not several other companies that are "infringing on your patent US 8496146 B2 "Convertible vehicle storage rack " and US D578952 S1 "Sport utility vehicle rack ".
Again really thankful for the response and it has helped ease the forum to an extent. And I apologize for the individuals calling you the condescending names(douchie/a($$h0Le) as that was not my intent with any and all rebuttals throughout.

 

[Misterquad]

I love the dialogue. It gives me a reason to look at this forum again. So thanks to everyone for their participation. It is a much better thread than a noobie asking what is the largest tire I can fit on my 5th Gen.

Okay, please continue. :high5:

 

[ID2000]

Lets add a 4th question that I would like to get answered. Can you elaborate on this? All public records that I can find about yourself or your company indicate that you have been on the dishing out side, not the receiving end of "bad business practices" And cannot find anything to support your claim. It sounds to me like you wrote that solely for the purpose of trying to get people here to pity you.

and in case you missed my other Questions:

I don't appreciate the Pity remark if this conversation begins down this path i will cease any further discourse after answering your question. Let me put it this way a few years ago we were in business with another company which i will not name who paid out royalties for products we were producing. After we set up production producing thousands of these items monthly for over a year they decided to have the same product made in China. I happened to find out by attending a trade show where i saw the new item prominently displayed in our business partners booth. Even with signed contracts and full patent protection we were left in the cold. This happens to many companies every day where one clearly out weighs the other financially. We survived simply because we were right plain and simple but to prove it almost killed us. Just to add a note of clarity no one really wins in lawsuits its simply a tool to keep things right.

thank you.

 

[wadle5]

I don't appreciate the Pity remark if this conversation begins down this path i will cease any further discourse after answering your question. Let me put it this way a few years ago we were in business with another company which i will not name who paid out royalties for products we were producing. After we set up production producing thousands of these items monthly for over a year they decided to have the same product made in China. I happened to find out by attending a trade show where i saw the new item prominently displayed in our business partners booth. Even with signed contracts and full patent protection we were left in the cold. This happens to many companies every day where one clearly out weighs the other financially. We survived simply because we were right plain and simple but to prove it almost killed us. Just to add a note of clarity no one really wins in lawsuits its simply a tool to keep things right.

thank you.

So you double posted(213&218) your initial response to partially answer my questions, and yet still don't respond to me when I ask you for a full answer(post229)? And then decide to respond to his post? Kind of seems like you are picking and choosing what to respond to? Again just saying to come on and be open I commend that, but it seems like you aren't being truly open.
You also say "where one clearly outweighs the other financially", that kind of sounds like calling the kettle black doesn't it, Gobi has been making racks in mass amounts for years, WMW is just a Florida driveway operation?
You then follow it up with
"No one wins a lawsuit, its to keep things right." I would argue that the winner is the company with more money as you JUST Stated. . .again this doesn't make it right?!

 

[ID2000]

Thank You sir for the response BUT,
You on several occasions(as shown above in bold) say you aren't wanting to put him under and/or aren't expecting royalties:

Section IV:
20. has caused damage to ID2 in an amount to be ascertained at trial.(could be any amount?!)
Section V:
27. has caused damage to ID2 in an amount to be ascertained at trial.(same as above)

Section VI.
c. Issuing a permanent injunction". ... ."from further activities that constitute infringement(keeping in mind the patent is "a roof rack")
D. Awarding ID2 damages. .... ."reasonable" ROYALTY for each act.(again the vagueness of legal term could actually sink the opposing company)

Also you strategically never answered my part of the initial question about only pursuing WMW and Baja and not several other companies that are "infringing on your patent US 8496146 B2 "Convertible vehicle storage rack " and US D578952 S1 "Sport utility vehicle rack ".
Again really thankful for the response and it has helped ease the forum to an extent. And I apologize for the individuals calling you the condescending names(douchie/a($$h0Le) as that was not my intent with any and all rebuttals throughout.

If Mr. Whitson answers the complaint by simply calling and talking with the attorneys all of the above could change drastically which would be good for Mr. Whitson. All he has to do is respond but from what i have read previously he plans to ignore the complaint. This is the kind of reaction i expect to receive from most anyone and this is why complaints and lawsuits are used.
thank you.

 

[CPT2nr88]

Kind of seems like you are picking and choosing what to respond to? Again just saying to come on and be open I commend that, but it seems like you aren't being truly open.

Yup I think that is a pretty accurate description. Still hasn't answered my other questions either.

 

[wadle5]

from what i have read previously he plans to ignore the COMPLAINT.
thank you.

But that's where you're at fault, it wasn't a complaint. . .it was a lawsuit?! You filed a lawsuit, it never was a complaint. You skipped that step?

I guess thank you? :smash:

..............and yet again still ignored to respond to my initial questions at hand. And no twisting of words thats why I referenced the posts numbers for direct citation.



.

 

[ID2000]

So you double posted(213&218) your initial response to partially answer my questions, and yet still don't respond to me when I ask you for a full answer(post229)? And then decide to respond to his post? Kind of seems like you are picking and choosing what to respond to? Again just saying to come on and be open I commend that, but it seems like you aren't being truly open.
You also say "where one clearly outweighs the other financially", that kind of sounds like calling the kettle black doesn't it, Gobi ahs been making racks in mass amounts for years, WMW is just a Florida driveway operation?
You then follow it up with
"No one wins a lawsuit, its to keep things right." I would argue that the winner is the company with more money as you JUST Stated. . .again this doesn't make it right?!

I think its time for me to bow out as i believe my words are simply being dissected for what you seem to believe is some underlying hidden agenda. I can assure you no hidden agenda just simply the truth.

Lets wait to hear what Mr. Whitson has to say.

Thank you all for your time and patience. I hope we can talk again soon under a better light.

 

[Panzerpatty]

From Gobi Racks facebook:

"At Intelligent Designs 2000/GOBI USA, we have the utmost respect for our hardworking industry colleagues who share our passion for delivering quality consumer products. This dedication to delivering a utility storage rack that provides an unmatched blend of durability, function and attractiveness is precisely the model we've used to build our business.
Gobi USA has been in business since 2003, delivering a patented product of which we are very proud. Our 26 employees work tirelessly each day to ensure the product we deliver is of the highest quality. Our patents were granted in order to protect the work and dedication of our employees and the intellectual capital that went into creating our products. we are legally entitled to protect our patents and are working to do so in the most respectful and considerate manner possible."

With the new patent pending banner & this FB update they are in full PR mode now. I can honestly say I was about to pull the trigger on one a gobi but after all this they have lost my business. I'm just glad I saw their true colors before i bought.

 

[the great him]

I think its time for me to bow out as i believe my words are simply being dissected for what you seem to believe is some underlying hidden agenda. I can assure you no hidden agenda just simply the truth.

Lets wait to hear what Mr. Whitson has to say.

Thank you all for your time and patience. I hope we can talk again soon under a better light.

Paul one thing you have to understand here is you have an uphill battle with the public from this point on... I'm sure you are aware of Gobis efforts to not only shut this thread down, but silence public opposition to the current situation -ie removing their social media posts and reviews and or customer service reports... That never looks good(right or wrong). Then you come here and start answering some questions and ignoring others(intentionally or otherwise dosent matter)... You have to know or expect some heat here, and walking away when things start heating up most definitely doesn't help you or your cause. Infact its only gonna hurt your imagea as a company or business individual. The old saying "if you can't stand the heat stay out of the kitchen..." kinda applys here. Now I'm not saying that to tell you to piss off and get lost, no, not at all. But I am saying that coming in here you have to know its gonna be a fight, and you have be willing to stand up and take the heat, if you want to survive in both business and life.

I urdge you to stay and be open with us as I also encourage WMW to do. Getting to the bottom of this is in everyone best interest. Being open forthright and honest is also going to be a huge factor/benefit as well(I'm not calling anyone a liar). I know right now it seams like this whole issues is like the town trying to burn the witch, but really we are not. This is more like parents trying to figure out what when down at the ball field with our kids. We became aware of an incident involving two kids(companies) and we are only trying to find out the details... There are a lot of inconsistencies with your side of events(that we see) and we see those and it raises a lot of red flags with us. We just want the truth, and at this point we have a much greater and more positive repor with Josh and WMW. So again you should have expected an uphill battle here with us.

 

[Whohastime?]

wadle5 - who made you the judge and jury? What does Paul owe any of us? Nothing....
Dude have some serious issues with just right out posting blame and thinking everything in a negative way. You need some positive forces in your life.

 

[wadle5]

From Gobi Racks facebook:

"At Intelligent Designs 2000/GOBI USA, we have the utmost respect for our hardworking industry colleagues who share our passion for delivering quality consumer products. This dedication to delivering a utility storage rack that provides an unmatched blend of durability, function and attractiveness is precisely the model we've used to build our business.
Gobi USA has been in business since 2003, delivering a patented product of which we are very proud. Our 26 employees work tirelessly each day to ensure the product we deliver is of the highest quality. Our patents were granted in order to protect the work and dedication of our employees and the intellectual capital that went into creating our products. we are legally entitled to protect our patents and are working to do so in the most respectful and considerate manner possible."

With the new patent pending banner & this FB update they are in full PR mode now. I can honestly say I was about to pull the trigger on one a gobi but after all this they have lost my business. I'm just glad I saw their true colors before i bought.

Yes they recently closed the comment section, deleted all reviews and ratings, and are now claiming the we are a small hardworking HONEST business company. And while I would agree they are not a giant company, and they have a small group of employees, and have been hardworking(although how much on products and how much on patent lawsuits). Of course the patent pending banner on their website is very nice from an outside perspective too, why would I not want to help this small start up company?! Sadly this looks like a great company online, but from historical reviews here(even before this roof rack fiasco) and from various historical legal activities it would prove otherwise.
You are a small company, you are hardworking, but unfortunately you just aren't honest.

 

[Whohastime?]

I don't appreciate the Pity remark if this conversation begins down this path i will cease any further discourse after answering your question. Let me put it this way a few years ago we were in business with another company which i will not name who paid out royalties for products we were producing. After we set up production producing thousands of these items monthly for over a year they decided to have the same product made in China. I happened to find out by attending a trade show where i saw the new item prominently displayed in our business partners booth. Even with signed contracts and full patent protection we were left in the cold. This happens to many companies every day where one clearly out weighs the other financially. We survived simply because we were right plain and simple but to prove it almost killed us. Just to add a note of clarity no one really wins in lawsuits its simply a tool to keep things right.

thank you.

ID2000 - close minded people will never accept what you say. I would say stop wasting your energy and go have a beer. In fact I think we all need one. A lot of negative energy in this forum. It's really sad that people have to live life mad all of the time. Life is much too short. CHEERS!

 

[wadle5]

wadle5 - who made you the judge and jury? What does Paul owe any of us? Nothing....
Dude have some serious issues with just right out posting blame and thinking everything in a negative way. You need some positive forces in your life.

No judge no jury...hell not even the stenographer in the corner. What has unfolded here is the owner came in to discuss and respond(to some) and then neglect the actual key points of the discussion. Then again claims Josh should have just done the right thing and paid him out(as its a stated lawsuit, because there was no complaint). So the only thing Paul owes(which I say only because he himself created an account and responded to others in this thread to cool it down a bit and misdirect the thread), all he owes is a logical, reasonable, simple response to the questions at hand. Instead he then bounces back and says I'm done here you wont listen. I did listen. I listened to all of the responses he had to some of specific questions, but to listen such a response and take it in its entirety you almost must respond to the initial question in its entirety. Which he did not. The deflection which you, him, and a fellow member are so good at is all he came back with and then only to bow out?
I don't see life in a negative light, I feel sorry that you just joined in on to this Great forum to call me out, and think I have so much negativity in my life. You should get out into society more or online more. Or maybe not either way you will see life is not rainbows and unicorns. I take this to heart, from opening my own business, and from opening my own company. This is not a happy occurrence no matter how you cut it, and to play me off as just negative in this event is elementary.
As for positivity in my life, thats why I have my 4runner.