Rubbing after lift but still 265s?

[MN_Pat]

Finally, finally I upgraded the suspension. Here's the kicker. backed down the in-laws driveway and have rubbing on the driver's front. Anyone else have this with stock tire size, wheels, and control arms? I've read all the threads about rubbing with bigger tires but still stock???

Changes:
Bilstein 6112 up front. 1.1" estimate. #4 driver and #2 passenger clips
Bilstein 5100 & Eibach coils 1" estimate for stock weight

Trying to learn photo uploads. seems there's a size limit in kb not mb. pics coming soon

 

[MN_Pat]

Pics I think

 

[MN_Pat]

and I know you're going to ask about alignment. Work on Saturday, aligned on Monday

 

[Jetboy]

It's a common rub spot. Trim the plastic a bit.

I can't find the document - but Toyota used to trim the bumpers at the port for the TRD Pro models because it only took the slight change in wheel offset to rub in that spot. There is a Toyota document that has a little guide for dealers where to trim to avoid that rubbing. In your case - grab a box cutter and cut about 1/4 inch off that inner bumper edge. Mark out first with masking tape to help you get a nice clean line.

 

[comtn4x4]

and I know you're going to ask about alignment. Work on Saturday, aligned on Monday

They brought your caster into spec and now you rub. It'll drive better with more caster, do what [MENTION=118321]Jetboy[/MENTION] said

 

[T4R_Canuck]

Finally, finally I upgraded the suspension. Here's the kicker. backed down the in-laws driveway and have rubbing on the driver's front. Anyone else have this with stock tire size, wheels, and control arms? I've read all the threads about rubbing with bigger tires but still stock???

Changes:
Bilstein 6112 up front. 1.1" estimate. #4 driver and #2 passenger clips
Bilstein 5100 & Eibach coils 1" estimate for stock weight

Trying to learn photo uploads. seems there's a size limit in kb not mb. pics coming soon

Not a lot of wiggle room for knobby tires with near stock suspension height, so trimming will most definitely be needed. Get comfortable with a dremel and a heat gun, take your time and plan out where you're cutting, put some painters tape over the area and measure out your line so it's the same on both sides before cutting.

Also, you could have a touch more caster, especially on your passenger side, which will make the problem worse (ie. slightly more trimming) but your vehicle will track better on the highway.

The amount you'll need to trim to make your current setup work will be really minimal. You could quite likely just trim off that little lip at the bottom of the wheel well and be fine. Cut it off flush with the wheel liner and don't worry about it again unless you go with bigger tires or a more aggressive offset wheel.

Happy trimming!

 

[fkheath]

Bilstein 6112 up front. 1.1" estimate. #4 driver and #2 passenger clips

Are you sure it is only 1.1" on the front? Since the strut bolts about half way on the lower control arm between the hub and the pivot, the amount of change on the shock spring mount will be about double amount of lift. Thus, if you have 1" lift, the difference on the spring mount would be only about 1/2".

 

[fkheath]

Finally, finally I upgraded the suspension. Here's the kicker. backed down the in-laws driveway and have rubbing on the driver's front. Anyone else have this with stock tire size, wheels, and control arms? I've read all the threads about rubbing with bigger tires but still stock???

OK, I'm super confused, so I hope that everyone on the forum can help me understand what is going on.

My set up:

- 3" Lift
-BFG KO2 tires in stock size (265/70-17)
- Aligned to OEM specs
- OEM wheels
- Stock everything else.
- SR5 Premium trim level

The KO2 tires have about the widest, knobbiest tread you can get in that size.

I just looked at my 4Runner, and the tires are no where near that lip. They are about 4" away. How can the OP (original poster) have the same size tire so close to the lip, while mine are much further away?

 

[MN_Pat]

It's a common rub spot. Trim the plastic a bit.

I can't find the document - but Toyota used to trim the bumpers at the port for the TRD Pro models because it only took the slight change in wheel offset to rub in that spot. There is a Toyota document that has a little guide for dealers where to trim to avoid that rubbing. In your case - grab a box cutter and cut about 1/4 inch off that inner bumper edge. Mark out first with masking tape to help you get a nice clean line.

This puts my mind at ease that it's normal for stock in a similar scenario. I'll get to trimming. I suppose there's some good news down the road. If I ever go bigger tires then I'll have more trimming up front but less likely to need a BMC

Appreciate the help!

 

[MN_Pat]

Are you sure it is only 1.1" on the front? Since the strut bolts about half way on the lower control arm between the hub and the pivot, the amount of change on the shock spring mount will be about double amount of lift. Thus, if you have 1" lift, the difference on the spring mount would be only about 1/2".

So funny you should ask. 20 minutes into the work, "Oh crap, I forgot to take measurements". We already had the tires off, on stands, and had started on one of the front corners. No, I won't have exact measurements. Only the estimates from Bilstein and Eibach.

 

[chrisridebike8]

it's hard to tell from the pics, but are you running any wheel spacers? it kind of looks like the wheels are sticking out farther than stock.

 

[MN_Pat]

it's hard to tell from the pics, but are you running any wheel spacers? it kind of looks like the wheels are sticking out farther than stock.

Only change from factory was the 6112 coilovers, no spacers.

Took everyone's advice and did some trimming. Should be in good shape now.

 

[Captain Spalding]

I can't find the document - but Toyota used to trim the bumpers at the port for the TRD Pro models because it only took the slight change in wheel offset to rub in that spot. There is a Toyota document that has a little guide for dealers where to trim to avoid that rubbing. In your case - grab a box cutter and cut about 1/4 inch off that inner bumper edge. Mark out first with masking tape to help you get a nice clean line.

T-SB-0070-19 TRD Pro Bumper/Fender Interference

https://static.nhtsa.gov/odi/tsbs/2023/MC-10247800-9999.pdf

 

[fkheath]

T-SB-0070-19 TRD Pro Bumper/Fender Interference

https://static.nhtsa.gov/odi/tsbs/2023/MC-10247800-9999.pdf

I still don't quite understand why the tires on the TRD/Pro are closer to the lip than the others. Is the suspension that much different?

 

[02SE]

I still don't quite understand why the tires on the TRD/Pro are closer to the lip than the others. Is the suspension that much different?

The offset of the TRD Pro wheels is different than the SR5 and TRD OR/ TRD ORP wheels.

 

[Captain Spalding]

Correct.

SR5/TRDOR/TRDORP: +15mm
TRD Pro: +4mm

The suspension geometry is the same on all the trims mentioned.

 

[fkheath]

Correct.

SR5/TRDOR/TRDORP: +15mm
TRD Pro: +4mm

The suspension geometry is the same on all the trims mentioned.

Thanks. That difference, 11mm, is only about a 1/2 inch. Amazing how such a little difference can have big consequences.

 

[Captain Spalding]

I was mystified too that such a small change in offset could necessitate trimming the fender. I copy/pasted this from elsewhere:

When you widen the track of your vehicle with either wheel spacers or changes in offset you increase the scrub radius. The scrub radius is the distance between the center of the tire and the point where the steering axis meets the ground. Increasing the scrub radius contributes to an increased arc prescribed by the wheel as it turns, and it’s the increased arc, primarily, that causes the rubbing.

This is a (mostly accurate) scale drawing of the 4Runner front susension. As the label denotes, it shows a stock 265/70r17 tire on a 7½x17 rim with a +15mm offset. Take note of the scrub radius at the bottom of the drawing:

What if we replace the stock wheel with the very popular 285 tire on the 7x17 rim with the +4mm offset?

Comparing the two drawings, notice in the second drawing that the offset is decreased and the scrub radius has increased.

Looking down from the top, we still see the dashed line prescribing the steering axis. From this view it is apparent that not only is the point of the tire’s rotation on the ground not centered on the tire laterally, it’s not centered front to back either. An effect of this is that as the tire is turned left and right, the leading outboard corner and the trailing outboard corner of the tire prescribe 2 different arcs, drawn in orange.

Now let’s swap out the 265 wheel for the 285.

The arc of the 285 wheel is purple. The arc of the 265 wheel is orange. The 285 wheel fits in the wheel well just fine. So why does it rub? Because the 4Runner is not very tolerant to changes in the diameter of this arc. It’s so intolerant, in fact that just pushing the wheel outboard of the steering axis a scant 4 tenths of an inch, (as occurs when the TRD Pro rims are fitted) causes Toyota to cut the fender at the port. It’s not merely the wheel being pushed outboard that causes the rubbing. It’s the wheel being pushed away from the steering axis that causes the trouble.