Running e85 in 3.4L 3rd gen 4runner Supercharged

[white_n_slow]

It's been shown that's a myth. Many 95.5 - 04 tacoma guys are running e85 in their boosted builds, same fuel system.

My '85 land cruiser had a fuel line that let go a chunk of rubber and clogged the jet in the carb the one and only time i put e85 in the tank (to try to fool the emissions sniffer). Maybe modern EFI fuel lines are more robust, but e85 absolutely did damage the fuel lines in my case (either that or it was the world's biggest coincidence). Just sayin'

 

[Robb235]

My '85 land cruiser had a fuel line that let go a chunk of rubber and clogged the jet in the carb the one and only time i put e85 in the tank (to try to fool the emissions sniffer). Maybe modern EFI fuel lines are more robust, but e85 absolutely did damage the fuel lines in my case (either that or it was the world's biggest coincidence). Just sayin'

I certainly wouldn't run E85 in a vehicle that old, especially a carb'd one. There are guys on the Tacoma forums running E85 on the stock fuel system, apparently their fuel lines have held up ok, haven't read anything about lines being eaten up or failing.

 

[Supermoney]

Has anyone reached the threshold of these motors yet? What goes first? Rods? Block crack? Any idea on how much wtq it takes?

 

[JayRolla]

I would like to ad that me and my buddys have been running e85 for over 10 years on turbo vehicles. My bro has had is Turbo Talon running e85 for that long and it had upgraded SS fuel lines front to back.

Just the other day he went out and there was about 5 gallons of fuel on the ground. The e85 had eaten its way through all the rubber and when the line removed entire insides of the line just fell out. Also all the metal o ring crimps where eaten to nothing left.

He has now installed nascar rated fuel lines. Around $500 for the fuel lines, rails, fittings. We are hoping this dont happen again but it took 10 years last time.

 

[JayRolla]

I agree it's not rocket science, and getting the A/F right is the easy part. But getting the timing right really requires a dyno. The problem is not detonation, since it almost never detonates (though I wouldn't want to run it lean with boost) but that you can get too much timing and lose power (and still not get detonation), thinking 'if a little is good, more must be better' (an attitude not uncommon among the inexperienced).

I just saw this. Your right the timing is more tricky because most your life your taught to use knock as a tuning tool. Which is freakign crazy!! LOL. But yea most tuning programs will have a but dyno tool to log and see if your getting MBT. Keep adding timing till you start to lose power.

 

[RussToy]

Gonna bring this discussion back to the top.

I just picked up some green top 315cc Supra injectors in preparation for a turbo. Since stock injectors are 240cc, these green ones are 31% bigger, which is about how much more fuel flow you need when switching to E85. I see E85 stations all over Atlanta, so I'm kind of tempted to throw these larger injectors on and fill up with E85 and see how it turns out. I don't think I would get much benefit being N/A, but I think it would be cool to try out. I'd have to stick with E85 until I switched back to the smaller injectors, but that's ok since I use my wife's Civic for long road trips.

If you do this...let us know how it goes. Heck, the last time I checked, E-85 was about $1.20 a gallon cheaper than premium! If it turns out to be safe...I'd be interested in trying it?!?!

Thanks...
-Russel

 

[mikeferg]

I have to bring this back to the top

after the supercharger install and 7th injector kit with walbro fuel pump, 91 octane, I was still getting low gear high rpm nocking, after I filled up with e85 it runs so much better, no nocking and butter smooth, it gained power. smells better, Just letting everyone know that its not all that bad what people make it out to be.

 

[Robb235]

Good deal. Did you tune your 7th injector to increase fueling by 30% or so?


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[whyzee125]

Don't listen to this guy. He has no idea what he is talking about. E85 is about 95 octane...

However, you need to tune the ECU for E85, and you also need larger fuel injectors. Do you have a programmable piggyback computer, or a standalone ECU?

I think you misread it; he said it's 85% ethanol, not 85 octane.

 

[gamefreakgc]

I have to bring this back to the top

after the supercharger install and 7th injector kit with walbro fuel pump, 91 octane, I was still getting low gear high rpm nocking, after I filled up with e85 it runs so much better, no nocking and butter smooth, it gained power. smells better, Just letting everyone know that its not all that bad what people make it out to be.

Interesting. What year is your 4Runner though? I have the old narrowband sensor that may not play nice with E85, but it sounds interesting. I think the 99+ that have the narrowband A/F ratio sensor would adjust better to E85.

There was a objective fuel test that showed E85 + methanol injection made more power than anything else. However, that was in a vehicle they could reflash to increase timing, as much as they wanted. Without timing advance, E85 makes no more power than regular 87, it's just fuel at that point.

 

[Yoter]

I have to bring this back to the top

after the supercharger install and 7th injector kit with walbro fuel pump, 91 octane, I was still getting low gear high rpm nocking, after I filled up with e85 it runs so much better, no nocking and butter smooth, it gained power. smells better, Just letting everyone know that its not all that bad what people make it out to be.

Thanks for posting up your positive experience!
Did you change injectors, fuel lines, or tune?

 

[Robb235]

There was a objective fuel test that showed E85 + methanol injection made more power than anything else. However, that was in a vehicle they could reflash to increase timing, as much as they wanted. Without timing advance, E85 makes no more power than regular 87, it's just fuel at that point.

There's a dyno sheet floating around one of the LS1 forums where a naturally aspirated engine made something like 5% more hp just by switching to E85 and adjusting the fueling tables to maintain correct AFR.



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[gamefreakgc]

There's a dyno sheet floating around one of the LS1 forums where a naturally aspirated engine made something like 5% more hp just by switching to E85 and adjusting the fueling tables to maintain correct AFR.

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Most likely because of timing advance though, since E85 is more resistant to knock than pump gas.

This is a great read I found a while back when I was calculating my methanol fuel %: https://www.enginelabs.com/author/bobmorreale/. They dyno test all fuels on a Corvette and then show how much timing advance they were able to add to make more power.

 

[sportscarfan]

To correctly run E85, you need more fuel volume, and more ignition timing. I wouldn't be so worried about fuel hoses. Ethanol has been a mandated additive since the late 70's. My supercharged 1991 Honda Civic has run on E85 since 2006 and has the original rubber fuel supply line from the filter to the fuel rail as well as the under hood original return line. Zero issues there.

In my case, the additional fuel volume meant a larger volume fuel pump and bigger injectors. Ignition timing and fuel injector pulse width is handled by a programmable ECU. The biggest benefit of the E85 with a supercharger is the elimination of detonation (knock). The supercharger is supplying HOT compressed air to the cylinders and the longer you are on the throttle, the hotter the boost gets. E85 has a higher "autoignition" temperature than gasoline and the additional fuel volume (required to make the same power as gasoline), it actually helps cool the boost.

 

[Greg_Canada]

I think you misread it; he said it's 85% ethanol, not 85 octane.

Exactly, he said don't use E85, because we need 92 octane in a S/C'd 3.4.

E85 is about 95 octane. However, as others have posted, your engine and fuel system require modifications to run E85.

 

[mikeferg]

Back with an update, so I am running 60% 91 premium with 40% e85 , that seems like a good mix, no pinging. I probably will need a tune if I want to run strate 91 or e85. I will probably get a tune because not everywhere has e85. but anyone wanting to bolt on a supercharger, you will probably need to mix some e85 in your truck if your on the west coast, east coast you wont have this issue it seems. altitude "denver" does nothing but if I go in the mountains with only 91 there is no pinging.