S.H.I.T.

[Bill42]

I am sure all of you have at one time or another seen a video showing a police officer in a car pursuit or involved in a physical confrontation. To get those kinds of shots video crews do ride-a-longs. As a retired CHP Officer, I used to have to allow ride-a-longs with video crews from shows like "Real Stories of the Highway Patrol".

Of course, when you know that you are being watched you are extra careful to do the right thing. To get around this the Department, like many other police agencies, installed a new device in the patrol cars to record the vehicle data - at all times.

We called it S.H.I.T. - for Sergeant Hidden In Trunk. You see the device acts just like the black box on airplanes. At the time of a collision it records speed, braking, etc. A virtual snapshot of what happened at the exact time of the collision.

Certainly, we didn't like it. Afterall, ultimately we knew that the information more often than not would be used against us. But it did prove to be of assistance when investigating collisions.

How so? Well, it is not just patrol cars that have this kind of information but now most new vehicles too. That's right there is S.H.I.T. in our 4Runners.

At the beginning of the 2005 Owner's Manual, page IV, there is a section titled, "Event Data Recorder". It describes not only the information that is recorded but also who can access that information.

Big brother is watching. Just remember that the next time you're speeding around. If you do end up in a serious collision there is a good chance that your 4Runner's data recorder will be obtained to shed light on what actually happened at the time of the collision.

Of course the easiest solution is to do the right thing and drive safely at all times...

 

[alpha]

Is it new to 2005? or is it also on earlier years? I would check my manual but I'm too lazy to go out to my truck right now and check. I guess I'll check in the morning. But bummer, I didn't know Toyota actually started doing it. I knew GM did, not sure of what other car makers do.

 

[Bill42]

Not sure when they started it. Wouldn't be surprised if it began at model change. You'll see that one of the entities who can gain access to this information is Toyota. They state their reason as defense in case of lawsuit.

 

[4RNR-LOVN]

No crap...you gotta be sh#@ing me!! No pun intended. Sorry, I couldn't resist.

Very interesting though...

 

[alpha]

Not sure when they started it. Wouldn't be surprised if it began at model change. You'll see that one of the entities who can gain access to this information is Toyota. They state their reason as defense in case of lawsuit.

Does it say anything about Toyota dealerships? Not that I really worry about it, but I know GM dealerships can check the system to see if techs have driven the car too hard, and how much exact mileage, and at what rpm, etc etc..

I'm not sure how I feel about the system. Almost seems like a breach of privacy (not sure if privacy is really the word i'm looking for, but..) to me..

edit: ok, I got a little impatient and checked a 2004 manual, and saw no mention of it in the front pages.. Nothing about it on page iv.

 

[Bill42]

The short answer is yes. The manual points out that the EDR also collects information to assist in trouble shooting. That would be the information the techs would use to aid in servicing our 4Runners.

For the most part, the event data would not be of use to them unless there was an event - a collision. Really, they aren't interested in that information except in those situations whereby they are sued.

The implications for us though are potentially significant. Say you were involved in a serious injury or even fatal collision. That event data could be used against you to prove gross negligence - manslaughter - in a criminal trial or in a civil trial to prove fault - responsibility.

However, it is a double-edged sword because the data could also clear you from both criminal charges and civil responsibility.

 

[Thai]

I heard about this system a few years ago in a few cars. GM (or Ford) has had it for a while, as do a few European brands. However, i never knew that an Owner's Manual would actually talk about it.

 

[akoda]

If they are going to do this it looks like we would have to give permission for them to access this data. Big brother doesn't own the data. We the owners do!

I have heard about such systems where the insurance companies would give discounts if such a system was installed because it may slow some people down. It just pisses me off.

Thanks for pissing me off this AM.:dammit:


koda

 

[DaveS]

If they are going to do this it looks like we would have to give permission for them to access this data. Big brother doesn't own the data. We the owners do!

Don't bank on it - the law of discovery in a civil case against you could prove otherwise...

Interesting article here which includes the text of the GM disclosure clause - wonder how much it differs from the Toyota version?

http://www.edn.com/article/CA529380.html

 

[Bill42]

Excellent article. Thanks.

Verbatim:

"Your vehicle has computers that monitor and control certain aspects of your vehicle. These computers assist in driving and maintaining optimal vehicle performance. Besides storing data useful for troubleshooting, there is a system to record data in a crash or a near car crash event. This is called an Event Data Recorder (ERDR).

The SRS airbag sensor assembly contains the EDR. In a crash or a near car crash event, this device records some or all of the following information:

Engine speed, whether the brake pedal was applied or not, vehicle speed, to what extent the accelerator pedal was depressed, position of the transmission selector lever, whether the driver and front passenger wore the sear belts or not, driver's seat position, front passenger's occupant classification, SRS airbag deployment data, SRS airbag system diagnostic data.

The information above is intended to be used for the purpose of improving vehicle safety performance. Unlike genereal data recorders, the EDR does not record sound data such as conversation between passengers.

Toyota will not disclose the data recorded in an EDR to a third party except when: an agreement from the vehicle's owner (or the leasing company for a leased vheicle) is obtained, officially requested by the police or other authorities, used as a defense for Toyota in a law suit, or ordered by the court.

However, if necessary Toyota will: use the data for research on Toyota vehicle safety performance, disclose the data to a third party for research purposes without disclosing details of the vehicle owner and only when it is deemed necessary, and disclose summarized data cleared of vehicle identification information to a non-Toyota organization for research purposes".

 

[DaveS]

It's reference to front passenger occupant classification makes me wonder whether this is new for 2005. The system which senses weight of front passenger etc and deploys airbags at a rate to match was introduced in 2005 I believe.

 

[rossmon1]

shit

yeah i read this in the manual, i always read owner manuals!
i wasn't too concerned since the t4r is not a vehicle i would go racing arround in!

 

[dancojgl]

Don't bank on it - the law of discovery in a civil case against you could prove otherwise...

Courts have ruled time and time again that you can't use the "privacy" argument to supress criminal evidence...

 

[jharris2]

Courts have ruled time and time again that you can't use the "privacy" argument to supress criminal evidence...

 

[dancojgl]

Except that the line you quoted refers to civil discovery, not criminal.

Except that it would be, more likely, the authorities asking to look at your black box data in an investigation of an accident severe enough to warrant examining the data recorder, not the other driver's insurance company...

 

[j0mama]

This device was also in my 2000 Porsche 911 Turbo, I remeber going to the dealer, and he knew my top speed I drove it, with Ambient temperature, my gas level, my oil temp, my RPM, and duration... Was kinda scary the dealership had access to all this information..

It was also in my 2001 BMW M5, my driver side door airbag, and A-Pillar airbag deployed when I was driving it (No I didnt hit anything, nor anything hit me) They also knew, all the same type of info when I brought the car in...


j0.

 

[jjtricket]

Does anyone know if the info on the data recorder is erased if you disconnect the battery for any length of time?

 

[Bill42]

I wouldn't think so. In a collision often times power is disrupted. So there must be some kind of fail safe.

 

[jjtricket]

Perhaps someone has a service manual and can provide detailed info on the event recorder.

 

[Boaz]

This device was also in my 2000 Porsche 911 Turbo, I remeber going to the dealer, and he knew my top speed I drove it, with Ambient temperature, my gas level, my oil temp, my RPM, and duration... Was kinda scary the dealership had access to all this information..

It was also in my 2001 BMW M5, my driver side door airbag, and A-Pillar airbag deployed when I was driving it (No I didnt hit anything, nor anything hit me) They also knew, all the same type of info when I brought the car in...


j0.

Some ECU's log info like that for a certin amount of time. I used to have a VAG COM for my VW and I could log and replay all kinds of things like rpm , air fuel mixture , speed, etc...