Safety Recall - Smart Stop Technology

[04_4runner]

I just had an oil change and the service guy advised me there was a safety recall on 4runners and Tundras dealing with the brake system. All he knew was that the computer needed to be reflashed with a new program. I tried to look up this service campaign and could not find out too much. Anyone have any info on what changes the reflash did?
Thanks,


2004 4Runner SR5 4x4 V8

 

[BlackWorksInc]

http://www.toyota-4runner.org/4th-gen-t4rs/154651-b1t-bst-campaign-warning.html

 

[04_4runner]

Thank you for the quick reply.

 

[inscarguy]

they just did mine when i had an alignment done. i did not know about it until it was almost done.

 

[kevinpt]

well i know what im not letting toyota do. im not saying its good for the truck but at times i will press gas and brake at the same time to bring up rpm a bit if i need to get off the line faster

 

[LTDSC]

they just did mine when i had an alignment done. i did not know about it until it was almost done.

i would definitely be throwing a huge fit.

well i know what im not letting toyota do. im not saying its good for the truck but at times i will press gas and brake at the same time to bring up rpm a bit if i need to get off the line faster

i can see how you get your mid-size SUV mistaken for a race car

 

[04_4runner]

...at times i will press gas and brake at the same time to bring up rpm a bit if i need to get off the line faster

You still can. The smart stop program doesn't cut the throttle unless you are already moving. It kicks in somewhere between 5 - 10 MPH for me. And throttle is restored instantly when the brake is released. No delay.

 

[BlackWorksInc]

You still can. The smart stop program doesn't cut the throttle unless you are already moving. It kicks in somewhere between 5 - 10 MPH for me. And throttle is restored instantly when the brake is released. No delay.

I have yet to play with a 4Runner that has had the BST, but if you hold the brake on a Corolla and try to gas it, it just falls on its face and takes a couple seconds to recover after you remove your foot off the gas. I know their Dealer Letter says it won't affect off-road performance, but I just don't believe it. Nor do I want to risk my 4Runner to test this out because you cannot go backwards with programming (as the older versions are not kept by Toyota) so you're stuck with the BST if you don't like it.

The worst part is that BST probably has some benefits to the rest of the vehicle as it is an entire reflash as well (i.e. the Corolla BST version supersedes an older reflash for a cold start problem) but Toyota like many other manufacturers does not give detailed "Patch Notes" on what each software update really does.

The thread I linked I made to let members know what the BST recall is about and allow them to make the informed decision to either do it or deny it. I personally will be refraining from the BST until I get a chance to play with another 4Runner and/or talk with someone who avidly off-roads their 4Runner with the BST software update (and I mean real off-roading not the dirt patch I park on everyday )

Post Note-

I'm glad it worked out for you OP, because I personally would have been livid. The dealership CANNOT and SHOULD NOT be performing any repairs without your authorization, that includes recalls. There were many members on this forum that were not at all happy when the dealership took it upon themselves to perform the D0L Recall (The "Pedal Chop") on their vehicles without consulting them.

 

[Climb14er]

Last year, Toyota cut down my accelerator pedal unbeknownst to me. Had I been told prior, I would have signed a waiver. Never would have allowed it to be done.

My rear window defroster recently went out and thankfully, Toyota will be replacing it under extended warranty. Even though they told me that I scratched the inside wires... which upon close inspection, neither myself or my friends could NOT see any scratches across the electrical grid on the back window.

It was then that the service adviser asked me about this smart stop program.

I politely refused!

Toyota is simply covering their you-know-whats as per the instructions of their attorneys.

If it ain't broke... don't fix it!

 

[Atlanta_man]

may be worth it if other software fixes are part of the update
but we will never know

 

[4RunnerFan]

Opting FOR the Smart Stop update

I didn't find out about this until I went into the "Owners" section of Toyota's website to update my '08 T4R service history. And then it wasn't until I happened to click the "Resources" pull-down tab and then click "Safety Recalls and Service Campaigns." I then checked the National Highway Traffic Safety Administration's Office of Defects Investigation website and discovered there are still complaints coming in about unintended acceleration, the most recent dated 01/14/2014. I then did a search on this website to see if anyone had reported Toyota's BST campaign, and that's when I found this link.

Frankly, I've always believed there have been valid occurrences of unintended acceleration in Toyota vehicles, including T4R. And I've been suspicious of Toyota's explanation that floor mats were the single cause of said unintended acceleration, believing instead that it was an electrical issue.

So, yes, I am having the ECM updated with the Smart Stop technology. The service is free and it is a limited campaign (expires March 31, 2016).

Just my two cents.

 

[m85476585]

This is an old thread, but I have a question. One of the problems that can make it hard to stop a car with unintended acceleration is that the brakes often use a vacuum booster, and if the engine is at WOT you have less vacuum. There is a reservoir of brake boost, so even without vacuum form the engine you should be able to come to a stop, but if you pump the brakes it will use up the boost. You can still stop the car, you just have to push much harder on the brakes.

Do our 4runners use engine vacuum to boost the brakes, or with the ABS/VSC/TSC actuator and pump do they use something else like an electric pump for normal brake assist? I know there is a pump that can apply the brakes for you for things like VSC and DAC. They have an emergency brake assist feature that helps you apply the brakes in a panic stop, but that might not kick in if you are trying to slowly bring it to a stop. But for regular driving is it using that pump or vacuum from the engine?

 

[BlackWorksInc]

I didn't find out about this until I went into the "Owners" section of Toyota's website to update my '08 T4R service history. And then it wasn't until I happened to click the "Resources" pull-down tab and then click "Safety Recalls and Service Campaigns." I then checked the National Highway Traffic Safety Administration's Office of Defects Investigation website and discovered there are still complaints coming in about unintended acceleration, the most recent dated 01/14/2014. I then did a search on this website to see if anyone had reported Toyota's BST campaign, and that's when I found this link.

Frankly, I've always believed there have been valid occurrences of unintended acceleration in Toyota vehicles, including T4R. And I've been suspicious of Toyota's explanation that floor mats were the single cause of said unintended acceleration, believing instead that it was an electrical issue.

So, yes, I am having the ECM updated with the Smart Stop technology. The service is free and it is a limited campaign (expires March 31, 2016).

Just my two cents.

The UA (Unintended Acceleration) issue has been beaten to death by everyone. The main culprits are suspected to be Tin Whiskers and memory bleeds caused by minor errors in coding that accumulates over time, both issues are not endemic to Toyota and affect multiple industries due to idiotic "enviromentalists" (because these people have no idea how to save the enviroment, they just want lord their Prius over everyone else) and cost cutting/lower standards of software regulation (Toyota being one of the better companies in terms of software quality, but its an inudstry wide deal.) Both of which are discussions that will require far more text than most anyone on this forums to hear me ramble on about.

If you want the BST recall, more power to you, but having experienced how it works and having used my vehicle off-road regularly where I do hold the brake and accelerator it does me no good. While Toyota disabled the BST in lower 4WD ranges, its useless most of the time for me because I rarely have to use 4LO in my V8 and I would be fighting the BST off-road. Not to mention it could even cause me to have an acccident on the trail. It is single handedly the most useless and frustrating recall I have ever had the displeasure to experience.

Personally I think it could even cause accidents because of how it functions. Its mainly just a quick software patch released to make incompotent drivers unable to react in an emergency situation feel better (to be honest, if you haven't practiced and/or learned how to operate your vehicle in an emergency situation, you have no business operating the equipment in my opnion.)

Simplest way to stop UA:

-Put vehicle in Neutral
-Steer to safety
-Apply brakes and/or coast to a safe stop

This is an old thread, but I have a question. One of the problems that can make it hard to stop a car with unintended acceleration is that the brakes often use a vacuum booster, and if the engine is at WOT you have less vacuum. There is a reservoir of brake boost, so even without vacuum form the engine you should be able to come to a stop, but if you pump the brakes it will use up the boost. You can still stop the car, you just have to push much harder on the brakes.

Do our 4runners use engine vacuum to boost the brakes, or with the ABS/VSC/TSC actuator and pump do they use something else like an electric pump for normal brake assist? I know there is a pump that can apply the brakes for you for things like VSC and DAC. They have an emergency brake assist feature that helps you apply the brakes in a panic stop, but that might not kick in if you are trying to slowly bring it to a stop. But for regular driving is it using that pump or vacuum from the engine?

The 4Runners use a Hydraboost unit, its an all in one unit consisting of a hydraulic pump, accumulator tank to store pressure, ABS solenoid pack, and master cylinder. This is a much stronger system than traditional vacuum boosters and has a longer reserve capacity in the event of an electrical power failure. This is why the 4Runners have a very "soft" and consistent brake pedal feeling, the hydraulic assistance provides strong assistive braking force. In the event of UA the 4Runner's brakes (and ALL Toyota vehicles by the way) will easily over power the engine, not to mention if you combine it with throwing the vehicle in neutral; there is no excuse why the vehicle couldn't be stopped.

 

[CXS]

Interesting. I've had 3 instances of "unintended acceleration" over the last month or so. It happened when I was passing on the highway and floored it. Each time it seemed as though the pedal released on its own but I do have Weathertech mats w/o the pins to hold it in place which it appears has been a problem for some people on here. I have a set being delivered today and will see if it happens again after installing them or if there's more to it.

 

[4RunnerFan]

If you want the BST recall, more power to you, but having experienced how it works and having used my vehicle off-road regularly where I do hold the brake and accelerator it does me no good. While Toyota disabled the BST in lower 4WD ranges, its useless most of the time for me because I rarely have to use 4LO in my V8 and I would be fighting the BST off-road. Not to mention it could even cause me to have an acccident on the trail. It is single handedly the most useless and frustrating recall I have ever had the displeasure to experience.

Personally I think it could even cause accidents because of how it functions. Its mainly just a quick software patch released to make incompotent drivers unable to react in an emergency situation feel better (to be honest, if you haven't practiced and/or learned how to operate your vehicle in an emergency situation, you have no business operating the equipment in my opnion.)

Thank you, BWI. I've always been a big fan of yours and respect your opinion and advice. Yes, there is a simple way to stop a car under UA, and I'd like to think I could remember the steps if it ever happened to me, but my wife would panic first, think of me and the kids next, and then start saying her goodbyes before remembering what to do if the thing took off on its own. Appointment for fix is the day after tomorrow. Thanks again, and all the best.

 

[CXS]

Got mine in the mail today.

 

[Desert Fox]

same here

 

[riceandpho]

i wonder if i should take my truck to you [MENTION=66389]BlackWorksInc[/MENTION] for the flash, then u can play with the brake and gas.

 

[Red]

When I made my appointment to get my Keyport slide key programmed they asked me if I wanted this software update and after speaking to a friend that works for Toyota I declined, I feel it's a non-issue I've never experienced this unintended acceleration problem, and wasn't that whole thing caused by floor mats?

I would think that this would have a negative result for any off roaders or people that enjoy a bit of snow drifting.

 

[BlackWorksInc]

i wonder if i should take my truck to you [MENTION=66389]BlackWorksInc[/MENTION] for the flash, then u can play with the brake and gas.

We're doing them now, though ironically I haven't played with a 4Runner yet after we've done the BST on them. I'll try and get my hands on one post BST and see if it's as bad as the Corollas. Basically from other people I have talked to that have dealt with the BST, its pretty much the same "kill the engine for a few seconds after you release the brake pedal" in all the vehicles. That's where I am concerned it could cause issues, because IF a customer rode the brakes and/or tried to accelerate and push the brake y accident activating the BST function, then the vehicle would not be able to effectively accelerate for a good few seconds. Thus, potentially a person behind them might not know this and ram into their backside assuming they were able to accelerate properly.

You're welcome to bring it over, but I probably won't be the one doing the BST (not that its difficult, its just an update, its just "gravy" work that the more senior techs typically get dibs on.) But personally I wouldn't bother getting it done, much in the same way I declined the pedal chop 90L recall (I was going to get a new accelerator, but the new ones are made shorter :crybaby: )