Salesforce will cancel contract with retailers selling some forms of firearms

[mscot]

https://www.washingtonpost.com/tech...?utm_term=.9de6033667a9&wpisrc=nl_most&wpmm=1

This could be a pretty crippling deal for some retailers depending on the level of integration they have with Salesforce.

Surprised I haven't seen more about it.

 

[Bumbo]

I never understood the heavy attraction to Salesforce... Dynamics 365 is better

Makes my decision to not use them even more comforting.

 

[LandCruiser]

I hope the Benioffs get ass cancer.

 

[WVhillbilly]

Because this anti gun stance has worked out so well for everyone else.

 

[thennen]

Never been a big fan of Salesforce. Their software was terrible for me and my co-workers. My company switched to Microsoft Dynamics as well.

When a company decides to divide their existing customer base by cutting ties with some on the basis of something like gun rights (Second Amendment), that's their prerogative. I support their freedom to do so. I personally haven't heard of a company whose business increased after making such a decision. I have, however, heard of companies who have suffered in similar situations.

I think it's financially unwise for a company to do something like this. Essentially their message is, "If you don't change what you sell and how you do business, we'll do all we can to hurt you." Great customer relations. Salesforce is trying to put the heavy hand on their CUSTOMERS, those who buy their product. Microsoft is bigger, and I'm sure they would be happy to help these folks out.

 

[Fern]

They may have just shot themselves in the foot Telling another company how to run THEIR business is never a good idea, let alone trying to force them. Shareholders won't be happy when their stock prices fall.

 

[Gunslinger-13]

Never a bright move to virtue signal, instead of just running a solid business.

I mean, go for it, do what you will with your privately held company, but you WILL feel it in the pocket book.

Just ask Dick's Sporting Goods.

Salesforce is nothing unique, pretty easy to create an app yourself that can do all those things, and more.

What is very troublesome is the double standard here. Taking an antigun stance gets a "pass" and firearms ownership is a freaking Constitutionally protected Right!!!!

But, other stuff, if it hurts enough peoples feelings- watch the F out! You will be ostracized and run out of town.

Chic-Fil-A for instance- didn't even take an anti-LGBTQSA stance, they just said they neither support nor discriminate against such people, but hold Christian values and believe the lifestyle/sin is wrong, it's just their belief as Christians...

And heads explode over it- twilight zone clown world style!

Can you imagine if anything else was singled out exactly like firearms and firearm ownership is?

Like- if Salesforce took a stance to not do business with LGBTQSA friendly/supportive organizations?

The "tolerant" folks banging the war drums of "equality" are the most intolerant hateful people right now.

It used to be America was a Free Country and you could disagree with someone but just go about your day and be entitled to your opinions and way of life, now these groups of people want to force you to go beyond accepting them, you MUST support them, or you are a hateful, ignorant racist, _phobe and must be reeducated or exterminated.

It's troubling.

 

[Starsky]

No biggie. Lots of companies, including payment processors like PayPal and Citigroup, have made the choice to not support the sales of firearms or related products. It's their choice not to support the current gun ownership scheme - which is an insane mess, BTW - and it probably impacts Salesforce's business by a fraction. The total revenue of all gun and ammo stores in the U.S. is just $3.1 Billion [out of a total GDP of $19+ Trillion (.01631%)].

I would imagine that supporting gun stores requires developing specialized sales tools. From their website, it looks like Salesforce prides itself on their corporate responsibility. They care how their products are used. My guess is that they are responding to the no-shits-to-give attitude by the gun industry to anything that might help address the mass-shooting epidemic.

 

[mscot]

I disagree with their policy but everyone here shitting on Salesforce's product is hilarious.
Your company's implementation of it may have been shit, but the core product, albeit bloated and perhaps stretching outside of what they really are (ie. trying to say they are a BPM tool), is solid. Are there competitors sure. But it will cost a lot of money and time to switch a company off of a heavy implementation of Salesforce.

[MENTION=122184]Gunslinger-13[/MENTION] "Chic-Fil-A for instance- didn't even take an anti-LGBTQSA stance, they just said they neither support nor discriminate against such people, but hold Christian values and believe the lifestyle/sin is wrong, it's just their belief as Christians..."

That's not even remotely correct. The company's charitable foundation and the founding family have contributed to anti-lgbtq organizations for a very long time and continue to do so (1.6m to FCA in 2017 and formerly to Exodus International which promotes conversion therapy)

Also, you're drawing a ridiculous comparison. Gun owners are not a protected class anymore than coffee cup owners are.

 

[Bumbo]

Company politics aside, I could not believe how popular Salesforce actually is. I partner with a few companies that use it. I really didn’t see anything special in their offerings at least from the perspective of a SMB. That said, as someone who knows people who have a 10 million dollar implementation of Salesforce in a large enterprise and SAP in manufacturing, there is much truth to what you are saying about possibly making a switch. Perhaps Salesforce was "the thing to have" back then, but in todays space, the gap has closed.

As a first time buyer of this technology shopping for a SMB, we recently went through a vetting process for a bunch of CRM companies and implementation consultants for various CRM products and Salesforce was the least attractive to our organization.

That said, their sales people and marketing are excellent… I can why they do well, but I think there are much better options (at least for us). Dymanics fully integrates with the entire O365 stack, including Business Central which takes it to an end to end ERP. Icing on the cake is that product licensing is 50% less than Salesforce too.

 

[Gunslinger-13]

I disagree with their policy but everyone here shitting on Salesforce's product is hilarious.
Your company's implementation of it may have been shit, but the core product, albeit bloated and perhaps stretching outside of what they really are (ie. trying to say they are a BPM tool), is solid. Are there competitors sure. But it will cost a lot of money and time to switch a company off of a heavy implementation of Salesforce.

[MENTION=122184]Gunslinger-13[/MENTION] "Chic-Fil-A for instance- didn't even take an anti-LGBTQSA stance, they just said they neither support nor discriminate against such people, but hold Christian values and believe the lifestyle/sin is wrong, it's just their belief as Christians..."

That's not even remotely correct. The company's charitable foundation and the founding family have contributed to anti-lgbtq organizations for a very long time and continue to do so (1.6m to FCA in 2017 and formerly to Exodus International which promotes conversion therapy)

Also, you're drawing a ridiculous comparison. Gun owners are not a protected class anymore than coffee cup owners are.

Yet- Chic-fil-a still hires and employs LGBTQSA people, they will still serve and sell to LGBTQSA people and neither supports nor discriminates against them.

They believe it is wrong, and in the past supported organizations that seek to "right that wrong" in their minds.

That's the issue here that I am framing, that if someone is NOT "FOR" and "SUPPORTIVE" of a lifestyle or group of people, they are instantly labelled negatively and ostracized as a "hateful" person or group.

That's just wrong.

So salesforce is literally antigun by creating policies that will disallow business users who sell certain types of firearms from utilizing their services- get it? They are banning people from using their platform who they don't agree with.

Chic-fil-a is not stopping anyone from working there or eating there because of there sexual preference- They have banned NO ONE from chic-fil-a due to being LGBTQSA- get it?

By the way, Chic-fil-a stopped donating to those organizations after the backlash the rainbow flag crowd brought against them, yet the LGBTQSA mafia is STILL putting the screws to them...

Conversion therapy and what is right and wrong are whole other discussions to be had.

People should be free to form heir own opinions and follow their own form of faith and religion. Just like folks should boycott whom they please as individuals, but getting a city to ban a fast food restaurant from an airport?

Turning someone who does not actively support you, your cause or lifestyle into an enemy that use be fought and made to change their views/beliefs- is just ridiculous.


My point- is there should be no "protected Classes".

Let me also add some personal experience and perspective here-

I am a Christian, not a fundamental goes to church every Sunday (Cause I have to work too much and Sunday is one of those days...) type, but I believe in a creator in the Christian sense.

I also believe that homosexuality is wrong.

I'm not against homosexual people nor their choice of lifestyle though. They are free to do as they wish as long as they are not hurting me or infringing on my Rights. More power to them to be whomever and be with whomever they please.

I also believe it is a sin, and I hate the sin, not the sinner.

My older sister is homosexual, I love her and her wife; they are good people who love eachtoehr and I am just fine with that.

I was actually ordained a minister to perform their ceremony, personally.

That may sound odd to most. But here's the thing about people and religion and love and life- we all have beliefs and are entitled to them, but that doesn't mean that if our beliefs run counter to another, we hate them or wish them harm.

My faith is important to me, but so is my sister, I chose to support her in a way that is at odds with some of my belief system because I love her and want her to be happy how she sees fit.

I still feel homosexuality is wrong and will teach my children that is what I believe and they need to decide what they believe on their own based on their life experiences and wisdom.

I just hired an openly gay woman because she was the best candidate for the position and I believe she will help our company reach our goals better than the other candidates presented to me. I am friends with her and her wife.

I would never treat anyone much differently than anyone else unless they sought to do me, my loved ones/family or innocent people around me harm- then they are in some serious trouble.

So with a little perspective...

I am pro-christian and believe homosexuality is wrong and a sin- so, would you say I am anti-gay?

Should I be made to change my opinions and viewpoints to appease others?

Do my beliefs make me hateful or wrong, even though I am loving and accepting of others and the lifestyles they have I do not agree with?

 

[Inv4drZm]

That's not even remotely correct. The company's charitable foundation and the founding family have contributed to anti-lgbtq organizations for a very long time and continue to do so (1.6m to FCA in 2017 and formerly to Exodus International which promotes conversion therapy)

Legitimate question here.

Is the FCA and other listed organization anti-LGBTQ? Or just pro-christianity?

 

[mscot]

Exodus intentional promotes conversion therapy.


FCA has it in their policy that its members can’t “practice” homosexuality as if it’s the ****ing piano.

And to gunslinger. Just the fact that you can’t refer to it as part of who they are but it’s a “lifestyle” ie a choice shows how you feel about it.

And as I mentioned, the fca donation was 5 years after they said they’d stop supporting charities with anti gay policies.

And just so I’m clear on what you said, you believe there should be no protected classes. Not race, disability, gender, nothing.
K

 

[Gunslinger-13]

Exodus intentional promotes conversion therapy.


FCA has it in their policy that its members can’t “practice” homosexuality as if it’s the ****ing piano.

And to gunslinger. Just the fact that you can’t refer to it as part of who they are but it’s a “lifestyle” ie a choice shows how you feel about it.

And as I mentioned, the fca donation was 5 years after they said they’d stop supporting charities with anti gay policies.

And just so I’m clear on what you said, you believe there should be no protected classes. Not race, disability, gender, nothing.
K

The human genome is mapped. There is no genetic allele that is a precursor of homosexuality.

People wanted to find it. It doesn’t exist.

So, if there is no genetic allele that is a precursor to homosexuality, how do we explain what it is?

The leading research suggests it is a choice.

Not how you or most portray such a choice, as in you just choose and that’s what you are with a single choice. You decide by a mere I “feel this way”.

But it’s more of a series of life experiences, accumulated choices based on those experiences and learned response.

You seem pretty emotional about it. I’m not.

I’m interested in reality, not feelings.

I’m fine either way it turns out.

If it turns out to be genetic and an allele is found as a precursor, so be it.

With 99.99% of the human genome mapped- That’s just not the case currently- and people have been clamoring to prove that theory.

Based on human genome mapping; it is very unlikely that such an allele exists.

It may. But it is a poor statistical probability at this point.

 

[Gunslinger-13]

Exodus intentional promotes conversion therapy.


FCA has it in their policy that its members can’t “practice” homosexuality as if it’s the ****ing piano.

And to gunslinger. Just the fact that you can’t refer to it as part of who they are but it’s a “lifestyle” ie a choice shows how you feel about it.

And as I mentioned, the fca donation was 5 years after they said they’d stop supporting charities with anti gay policies.

And just so I’m clear on what you said, you believe there should be no protected classes. Not race, disability, gender, nothing.
K

And to be clear- no, there should be no protected classes.

I don’t believe in separate classes of people.

I believe in everyone being side by side as the same class as far as having the same rights, equality of opportunity (but not equality of outcome) and same consequences of action.

Separate classes with separate protections goes against the very fabric and ideal of liberty and justice.

Why do you believe there should be separate classes of people with different rights, different treatment and actions of consequence?

I’m truly curious.

 

[tcbaklash]

This doesn’t surprise me about Salesforce. They have a history of voicing their support of tax hikes in already impossible-to-afford San Francisco just to give you an idea of what kind of company they are. All big tech companies in the SF Bay Area lean extreme left to the point where virtue signaling impacts their productivity, their bottom line, and their reputation. “Where do we find a female Native American software engineer? Because we need one for our diversity quota, we don’t even care if she’s competent.”

They have a lot of sway in SF, there’s a lot they can be doing for their own employees instead of joining the cabal of barricading 2A. Instead maybe they should focus on the issue that very few of their employees can even afford to live within an hour of their office. Left-wing capitalism at its finest. “No guys we totally care about things other than profits”

 

[Starsky]

The leading research suggests it is a choice.

Really? Links please....I'd love to see it.

 

[mscot]

The human genome is mapped. There is no genetic allele that is a precursor of homosexuality.

People wanted to find it. It doesn’t exist.

So, if there is no genetic allele that is a precursor to homosexuality, how do we explain what it is?

The leading research suggests it is a choice.

Where do you get your "leading" research from?

Recent publications about genetics
https://www.newscientist.com/articl...w-gay-genes-tell-us-about-sexual-orientation/
Genome-Wide Association Study of Male Sexual Orientation | Scientific Reports

Two about hormones in embryonic state
Minireview: Hormones and Human Sexual Orientation
Homosexuality May Start in the Womb | Science | AAAS

We haven't figured out what causes Alzheimers or cured cancer yet - both causes with eons more funding than "what makes sparky gay." But I guess since we've mapped most of the human genome we should just give up on that too, eh. Not that I think it actually matters what makes someone gay aside from fighting assumptions about "choice"

Separate classes with separate protections goes against the very fabric and ideal of liberty and justice.

Why do you believe there should be separate classes of people with different rights, different treatment and actions of consequence?

I’m truly curious.

To say they have different rights is a stretch. But, to answer, it's primarily the same reason that I don't believe libertarianism can work on a large scale. There's too many biases in our society that are ingrained, there is too much of an imbalance in power, and human nature is too biased towards greed.
So, yeah, I don't think you should be allowed to discriminate against someone based on a relatively limited and inborn set of criteria.

 

[mscot]

All big tech companies in the SF Bay Area lean extreme left to the point where virtue signaling impacts their productivity, their bottom line, and their reputation.

How does this impact their bottom line positively? I can't see why a company would choose SF over a competitor simply b/c of this restriction.
I can't even imagine productivity remaining high after an initial celebratory bump.
I don't know how many firearm retailers use SF, perhaps its not a large enough number to matter to them.

 

[tcbaklash]

How does this impact their bottom line positively? I can't see why a company would choose SF over a competitor simply b/c of this restriction.
I can't even imagine productivity remaining high after an initial celebratory bump.
I don't know how many firearm retailers use SF, perhaps its not a large enough number to matter to them.

I’m not suggesting that giving firearm manufacturers and retailers the boot will make a dent in Salesforce’s profits. It won’t. Their aforementioned support of higher local tax will. I’m saying that virtue signaling in general by large tech companies is usually detrimental. If this is just one of Salesforce’s politically-motivated antics, obviously there’s a lot more going on inside the company.

How else do you make the City of San Francisco happy enough to let you develop land despite zero-growth ordinances?