San Bernardino Shooting

[Jernik]

you mean undocumented immigrants, a person is not illegal, the way they got here was illegal. We haven't sunk, its been that way since the beginning. If it weren't for this immigrant labor, our prices on many products and services would be astronomical. Things as simple as a head of lettuce would not be 99cents, more like $5. Its smarter to blame big business for this issue. Our prison situation is another problem we have here in the USA, as we only have 5% of the world population but have 25% of the world prison population.

but how many of them are willing to work for $1.85 an hour for 12-16hr days with no breaks and then get charged a few bucks for a ramen noodles lunch. Add in the reality that they are basically imprisoned in shacks and locked in at night while their wives and daughters may be raped or sold. Im not saying all agriculture farms are like this, but there are many that are and this all goes down on American soil so you and I can get tomatoes for 99 cents a lb.:zoom:

A head of lettuce would still be $.99, only the CEO wouldn't be making $100 million per year... maybe he'd have to scrape by on a measly $1 million a year salary.

People would do the work if it was beneficial to do so. Growing up I knew of a few (white) families of generational welfare recipients. There was nothing wrong with any of them, other than they lacked ambition to do any better in life than what they could get for free from the government. This is OUR fault for creating a system that does not reward effort over laziness. Why work for minimum wage when they have already figured out how to make as much, if not more, from the government for doing nothing? They have no motivation to take an entry level job. Take away the lifelong welfare from able bodied people, and I bet more would start filling those entry level positions about the same time their benefits run out.

Also, I'd like more information on those American agriculture farms that abuse the workers, rape, and sell their women. I've not heard of that before, but would like to read more if you have links. If possible, I'd prefer to not support any business related to those conditions.

 

[cfranck1]

Also, I'd like more information on those American agriculture farms that abuse the workers, rape, and sell their women. I've not heard of that before, but would like to read more if you have links. If possible, I'd prefer to not support any business related to those conditions.

I read this book a few years ago. Makes you think differently about produce from grocery stores.

TomatoLand Book

 

[nevada]

As far as the reactions from the political left and right, both sides seem to be missing the point. Banning more guns isn't the solution, but do we really need to reject common sense bills like the one that died just recently? It would have restricted gun sales to people who are on the FBIs terrorist watch list. Seriously? That should be a "no sh$&" piece of legislation, in my opinion. But Republicans and the gun lobby (which seems to have so many of them in their pocket) can't figure out that this might be a good thing to have?

I think its ridiculously easy to get on that list. that's a NO GO in my opinion.

my GF shut down an airport and almost got put on the list, and may also have gotten herself black flagged for future flights, all because she had one of my .40 cartridges in her coin purse.

All their fault? No, but the NRA does have blood on it's hands.

no.

Care to explain? I'm not following why the NRA has anything to do with a Muslim terrorist killing innocent people. Regardless if we ban guns or make gun laws tighter people that want guns will get guns. It's not like someone that's willing to commit murder is going to be tripped up by the fact that it's now illegal to own guns. Yes it'll make obtaining guns harder to obtain for terrorists, but it will turn this nation into one of sheep. (The following is merely speculation) They'll start targeting more than just states that have strict gun laws, they'll start targeting all the states which will make them harder to predict.

exactly. murder is already illegal. if someone has committed to murder, getting access to a gun is a non issue.

I doubt that gun control laws are doing anything to limit weapons getting into the hands of terrorists!! See Paris attack as a prime example. France has one of the strictest gun laws in the world.

The gun laws will affect ONLY ONE group of people...the good folks that follow the law.

yep.

Well at least one poster doesn't prefer knowledge.

No one is coming to take our guns, the irrational anger to that imaginary argument is amusing but I wish more people would join the adult conversation on ways to make our society safer from widespread gun violence.

no one is coming to take them? so, NO guns have been taken from any americans?
no restrictions have been put in place that make it HARDER for law abiding citizens to own, or utilize firearms?

https://www.facebook.com/cross.keller/posts/946230978778005
yay for informational videos

The government isn't going to flat out ban guns, they know if they do that they'll be immediate resistance. They're doing it methodically by making it harder and harder to own them. They know they can pass more strict gun laws little by little and it'll anger some people, but the vast majority will just take it as it comes. When it gets to the point of even owning a gun is like filing for a Class 3 weapons permit (several months of paper work, have to go through a lawyer, rigorous background checks) that is when the government has essentially banned guns. I honestly can't believe anyone still believes the liberal propaganda of "if we just make guns harder to get then there won't be any more terrorism or murder! Yay!" How could anyone be so simple minded?

exactly. its being done slowly. IT IS BEING done.

Considering the vehicles we all own and love can cause more damage and carnage faster than any gun available, and are harder to stop, I suggest we ban SUV's, and prevent people on the no-fly list from getting driver's licenses.

not can, but DO.

Guys lets just face it.... Liberals will be liberals. There's no use in trying to reason with them, they think their way is the only way. And liberals lets just face it there is no use in arguing with the conservatives because we think our way is the only way. No matter who says what we will always be in disagreement. The only thing that could change either of our mind sets would be real life proof. For example, IF ISIS invades America (there's no way they can or would) and society turns to anarchy then the liberals will all of a sudden snap out of the gun control mindset. They'd come crawling to the people with guns for protection. On the other hand if we could eliminate all guns in the world and there was no more terror or murder then the conservatives would change their mindset. Neither is likely to happen in the foreseeable future so let's all just agree to disagree. Let's focus on what we CAN agree on since this is going no where..

they already have. its a slow progression, just like gun control. they ARE HERE NOW.

Calling it an Islam problem because that's the quickest and easiest your simple minds can make sense of terrorism isn't going to end well. There are millions happy successful peaceful Muslim Americans and you want to alienate them all because of a few?

I hate you fear mongering islamaphobes as much as I hate the radical terrorists, same shit different color.

are you saying islam has not been a problem?

statements like these show pure ignorance to how much our economy relies on immigrant labor.

we would manage without the illegal workers.

And it's sad but alot of those unemployed will not take just any job to put food on the table. You see it alot in my generation, some think honest hard labor is to just hard.... there's also a portion of America that frankly put, would rather live on the government dollar and make no effort to better their situation and actually take advantage of programs that could help them do so. Not all, but there is a sizeable part of the population that is like this

I know a few people that are down and out and complain about the government not doing enough for them, but I know if the government came in and said "hey we will pay for your housing if you pick strawberries for 8 hours a day, 5 days a week" they would say h3ll no!!

I'm for immigration but, you want to come here follow our laws. Simple as that. If you come in without following the law, yes your are breaking it and you are illegal. It's not that hard.... try to illegally enter another country and see what they do....

cut their assistance. they will work.

but how many of them are willing to work for $1.85 an hour for 12-16hr days with no breaks and then get charged a few bucks for a ramen noodles lunch. Add in the reality that they are basically imprisoned in shacks and locked in at night while their wives and daughters may be raped or sold. Im not saying all agriculture farms are like this, but there are many that are and this all goes down on American soil so you and I can get tomatoes for 99 cents a lb.:zoom:

again, cut their assistance, they will work.

A head of lettuce would still be $.99, only the CEO wouldn't be making $100 million per year... maybe he'd have to scrape by on a measly $1 million a year salary.

People would do the work if it was beneficial to do so. Growing up I knew of a few (white) families of generational welfare recipients. There was nothing wrong with any of them, other than they lacked ambition to do any better in life than what they could get for free from the government. This is OUR fault for creating a system that does not reward effort over laziness. Why work for minimum wage when they have already figured out how to make as much, if not more, from the government for doing nothing? They have no motivation to take an entry level job. Take away the lifelong welfare from able bodied people, and I bet more would start filling those entry level positions about the same time their benefits run out.

yep. remove the assistance, the choice to work gets a lot easier.

 

[simple]

A head of lettuce would still be $.99, only the CEO wouldn't be making $100 million per year... maybe he'd have to scrape by on a measly $1 million a year salary.

People would do the work if it was beneficial to do so.

Riiight. What you're describing is a form of communism, or to a lesser degree, socialism. We need lettuce, so we'll go pick some from the local farm to help out the domestic prices...but only domestic prices, cause **** 'x' country. Bullshit. And lets assume that you have a job that pays 60k a year. If your boss went up to you and said, you're going to make 40k a year because prices are too high for whatever service or product that you provide are you going to do it? Or even better 6k a year? Your argument is outrageous. Just because you think 1 million a year is a handsome way to live doesn't make it so for the position those people occupy. Why do doctors get paid so much? Why are there so few teachers? Why isn't everybody just paid minimum wage?

What would actually probably really happen, is that the CEO would have massive layoffs to account for the increased cost of labor. Produce less lettuce, and then the invisible hand would do its thing with the enconomy and supply would go down, while demand stays the same driving higher prices.

 

[Jernik]

Riiight. What you're describing is a form of communism, or to a lesser degree, socialism. We need lettuce, so we'll go pick some from the local farm to help out the domestic prices...but only domestic prices, cause **** 'x' country. Bullshit. And lets assume that you have a job that pays 60k a year. If your boss went up to you and said, you're going to make 40k a year because prices are too high for whatever service or product that you provide are you going to do it? Or even better 6k a year? Your argument is outrageous. Just because you think 1 million a year is a handsome way to live doesn't make it so for the position those people occupy. Why do doctors get paid so much? Why are there so few teachers? Why isn't everybody just paid minimum wage?

What would actually probably really happen, is that the CEO would have massive layoffs to account for the increased cost of labor. Produce less lettuce, and then the invisible hand would do its thing with the enconomy and supply would go down, while demand stays the same driving higher prices.

Not sure where you're getting communism or socialism. I'm not advocating for the government to mandate wage caps. If the government chooses to make only US citizens available for work in the US, every company will find a way to stay competitive and profitable. If one industry is affected more than others, it's not unprecedented for executive pay to be cut - at least temporarily. After all, most executives are simply employees of a company just like the rest of us.

 

[simple]

Not sure where you're getting communism or socialism. I'm not advocating for the government to mandate wage caps. If the government chooses to make only US citizens available for work in the US, every company will find a way to stay competitive and profitable. If one industry is affected more than others, it's not unprecedented for executive pay to be cut - at least temporarily. After all, most executives are simply employees of a company just like the rest of us.

I apologize if I misinterpreted your post. I took 'they'd do the work of it was beneficial to do so' as people would sacrifice fair wages for work of it was beneficial for society as a whole.

I think you're way off base. The reason China is kicking our ass in the global market is because 'made in America' is too expensive. We import way more than we export. People shop at Walmart because their dollar goes further. Other countries are more than willing to sell us their crap at rock bottom prices. So all those mom and pop stores that have been replaced by Walmart didn't find a way to stay competitive.

 

[Jernik]

Ahh, that makes more sense. I was trying to say Americans would take those jobs if government welfare programs didn't pay as well or better for not working. If it was beneficial to them, personally, they would work.

Point well made about China/Wal Mart. Not sure the import/export details on lettuce though.

 

[BrianSD_42]

Remember (again) that time Australia banned guns?

12/10/15
Teen terrorism suspect found with a gun days before alleged plot | smh.com.au

 

[ndcent]

Schools!!!!! Easy targets!

As for the idiots who think that this was a work-related incident, GET YOUR HEAD OUT OF YOUR ASS!

This couple was probably on their way to a school when they got into battle with police!

So, yeah, SCREW YOU ALL who think that we are doing enough or that more gun control will prevent anything!!

America needs to wake up!

Unhinged people love caps lock.

I just read your baby rant in my racist uncles voice, he's a gun nut too but strangely I have a nicer collection than he.

Sorry this is off topic. I'll try to get back on track..

The ISLAMS ARE COMING FOR OUR CHILDRENS GUNS! SHEEPLE!!

 

[flighht2k5]

Unhinged people love caps lock.



I just read your baby rant in my racist uncles voice, he's a gun not too but strangely I have a nicer collection than he.



Sorry this is off topic. I'll try to get back on track..



The ISLAMS ARE COMING FOR OUR CHILDRENS GUNS! SHEEPLE!!

What's a gun not?

 

[MudPie]

There are two types of people that promote Islam as a religion of peace and scream ISLAMAPHOBIA when a rational person presents a valid concern or point to the contrary...

Liars and Deniers

 

[cashmoney]

What's a gun not?

This is why arguing on the internet is retarded. Because people think that calling out a grammar mistake or a spelling mistake is grounds for discrediting someone.

 

[ndcent]

There are two types of people that promote Islam as a religion of peace and scream ISLAMAPHOBIA when a rational person presents a valid concern or point to the contrary...

Liars and Deniers

It's unusual a brand new poster would be posting in these sub forums.

Welcome though!

 

[flighht2k5]

This is why arguing on the internet is retarded. Because people think that calling out a grammar mistake or a spelling mistake is grounds for discrediting someone.

You obviously haven't read the whole thread have you?

 

[MudPie]

It's unusual a brand new poster would be posting in these sub forums.

Welcome though!

You can learn a lot about online communities via the sub-forums.

 

[Jernik]

What's a gun not?

An uptight gun nut? :laugh:

 

[ndcent]

"Today. On a crowded bus. On Michigan Avenue. On my way home from a great job in a city in a diverse country that I was born in.

A man screamed at me. Called me a sand ni**er. Told me I was the problem. That I need to get the **** out of his country.

I may have been wearing my scarf higher on my head than usual because it was cold out. I may have somehow looked suspicious listening to Spotify. I am half Iranian, so maybe it was my skin or my eyes.

But 5 minutes of this at least went on with no one doing anything. Me telling him calmly to back off. Me telling him I would call the cops and me trying to get my gloves off to dial.

Then this man spits at me. A man in a suit and tie. Like anyone else I'd see. He spits at me and looks at me with these regular eyes now filled with anger and tells me to get the **** off the bus, do what I'm told, because this isn't my country. This isn't my place.

That's when I screamed at the top of my lungs for him to back off. That's when people decided to maybe help and tell him to stop. That got the attention of the bus driver to kick him out.

I'm home now in my nice apartment in a nice part of Chicago with my fiancé and my cat. Sitting in a room looking out at the lights of other apartments. Wondering how many others out there got screamed at and told today this isn't their country, that they're worthless somehow, that they don't matter. How many?

My father was in the World Trade Center on 9/11 and survived. Days and weeks and years after that horrible day, I have been told somehow me or my mother's family are the cause, that we are evil and going to Hell. That Iranians, that Middle Eastern people, that Muslims are less than human.

I am a mixture like so many in this country today.

I was born in Boston, Massachusetts. It's one of the most patriotic cities in America. My ancestor Hugh Drury is buried in the oldest graveyard in Boston, and he helped contribute to the building blocks of what would become the United States of America.

And yes I'm also Iranian. My mother's family came here to seek incredible opportunities and they found them. They've become doctors and entrepreneurs and athletes and writers and singers.

I have family who are Muslim.
have family who are Catholic.
I have family who enjoy laughing and talking and dancing and drinking till they're silly.

And I am American. and this is my country. I do belong here. My roots are planted here.

I'm here and I belong. I won't get off the bus." - Sharareh Delara Drury

 

[MudPie]

I was at the 7-Eleven this morning and two black men started calling me a cracka and a white devil. Said I owe them reparations and demanded my skittles. Fortunately I have my CCW and their ice picks were no match for my 1911. Better luck next time chumps...

- MudPie


See, I can write stories too.

 

[flighht2k5]

"Today. On a crowded bus. On Michigan Avenue. On my way home from a great job in a city in a diverse country that I was born in.



A man screamed at me. Called me a sand ni**er. Told me I was the problem. That I need to get the **** out of his country.



I may have been wearing my scarf higher on my head than usual because it was cold out. I may have somehow looked suspicious listening to Spotify. I am half Iranian, so maybe it was my skin or my eyes.



But 5 minutes of this at least went on with no one doing anything. Me telling him calmly to back off. Me telling him I would call the cops and me trying to get my gloves off to dial.



Then this man spits at me. A man in a suit and tie. Like anyone else I'd see. He spits at me and looks at me with these regular eyes now filled with anger and tells me to get the **** off the bus, do what I'm told, because this isn't my country. This isn't my place.



That's when I screamed at the top of my lungs for him to back off. That's when people decided to maybe help and tell him to stop. That got the attention of the bus driver to kick him out.



I'm home now in my nice apartment in a nice part of Chicago with my fiancé and my cat. Sitting in a room looking out at the lights of other apartments. Wondering how many others out there got screamed at and told today this isn't their country, that they're worthless somehow, that they don't matter. How many?



My father was in the World Trade Center on 9/11 and survived. Days and weeks and years after that horrible day, I have been told somehow me or my mother's family are the cause, that we are evil and going to Hell. That Iranians, that Middle Eastern people, that Muslims are less than human.



I am a mixture like so many in this country today.



I was born in Boston, Massachusetts. It's one of the most patriotic cities in America. My ancestor Hugh Drury is buried in the oldest graveyard in Boston, and he helped contribute to the building blocks of what would become the United States of America.



And yes I'm also Iranian. My mother's family came here to seek incredible opportunities and they found them. They've become doctors and entrepreneurs and athletes and writers and singers.



I have family who are Muslim.

have family who are Catholic.

I have family who enjoy laughing and talking and dancing and drinking till they're silly.



And I am American. and this is my country. I do belong here. My roots are planted here.



I'm here and I belong. I won't get off the bus." - Sharareh Delara Drury

I wonder why you never address the black panthers or other racist black groups who hate and want to kill all crackers.
So you live in Chicago and own two pistols? Are you breaking the law?

 

[ndcent]

I was at the 7-Eleven this morning and two black men started calling me a cracka and a white devil. Said I owe them reparations and demanded my skittles. Fortunately I have my CCW and their ice picks were no match for my 1911. Better luck next time chumps...

- MudPie


See, I can write stories too.

It's certainly telling.