second new drive belt in three years??

[pipspeak]

Not sure if anyone else has had this issue, but my 2004 T4R today had its second new drive belt fitted in 2.5 years.

The first replacement was in late 2006 when the belt started squeaking in wet weather before the engine warmed up. That was done under the factory warranty. This winter, about 27K miles later, the belt started squeaking again when the car was cold/wet.

I took it to the dealer a month ago but the engine was warm so they could not hear the squeaking. They just inspected the tensioners and belt and proclaimed that all was fine. Yesterday I dropped the car off in the evening so it could sit in their lot overnight and get nice and damp/cold. Sure enough, they heard the squeaking and the service manager recommended replacing the drive belt *again*. This after they said the belt looked fine just last month.

Kudos to them... they are replacing the belt gratis because they also replaced it 2.5 years ago (it's not covered by the extended warranty). But WTF is wrong with my truck? Drive belts should last many more years/miles than this, surely. I repeatedly asked them to check the tensioners, since a sticky or badly aligned tensioner could explain why the belt only squeals when cold, but they say all the tensioners are fine.

Anyone have any suggestions?

 

[CJ3Flyr]

Original battery?

A discharged, weak battery consumes many more amps than a fresh battery with one good start on it. The more the alternator puts out the harder the pulley is to turn. A weak battery=hard to turn alternator. Is there any aftermarket electrical stuff that could be draining the battery overnight? Can you park it a wee and have it start up ok?

Just a thought, it may not be the right one but it's a thought
:cheers:

 

[pipspeak]

Battery's fine (did a load test recently) and nothing aftermarket is draining power. Car regularly sits for a week when I travel and starts right up like normal.

I talked to the service manager today and said three belts over the course of the car's 52K mile life seems rediculous to me. He told me the belt replaced today was actually in good condition and the problem is that they "dry out", so next time I hear it squeaking I should just lube it with WD40.

If so, this is the first car I've ever owned that has required any kind of "lubing" or replacement of a drive belt before about 50K-60K miles. I average under 10K miles a year, mostly freeway, garage the car about half the time, and live in a city that does not get particularly hot. How can a belt just dry out, fer gawd's sake Not what I'd expect from a Toyota.

I just have to assume the belt is properly tensioned, tensioners are properly aligned, and that the bearings of the alternator, water pump etc. are all fine and smooth. With a dealership, however, I never know.

 

[IbrahimGTSR]

i had the same problem before but i never change the time belt, what i have done was i change my oil filter from CHEAP brand to mobile 1 without changing the oil and it was fine after that.

"the problem is that they "dry out", so next time I hear it squeaking I should just lube it with WD40"

1. where should apply the lube?
2. what is the cause of problem now is really "dry out" !!
and i though you just need to tied the timing belt then replacing

 

[simple]

Heh, actually this bugged the **** out of me awhile back. Looking at my maintenance log, I replaced mine apr last year cause of the squeak on start up. I used an aftermarket, Goodyear Gatorback Belt, pt 4070834 at Napa for $3o bucks. Its been working great. Although, I did purchase a belt dressing spray at kragen before that, but it only provided temp relief.

 

[colombo]

I do have the same problem with my belt. It is annoying sometimes and I hope it is not a pulley bearing. As long as belt is OK I will not replace it. In theory, lubing belt may help (if it is the belt). But it may start slipping and it may be problematic to remove the lube from the belt. So I would not attempt to do it first but if somebody tries it and it works I will definetely follow the leader.
Actually, you can try to lube it with WD-40, and if something goes wrong you can bring it up to service manager as it was his suggestion. So he will have to fix the problem ( if it will happen).

 

[Falls]

It could be a pulley bearing or one or more of the alignments is off . They will wear fast is that is the problem.

 

[pipspeak]

It could be a pulley bearing or one or more of the alignments is off . They will wear fast is that is the problem.

That's what I kept suggesting, but they assured me that tensioners/pulleys were all fine. It's not something I'd be able to check, either, so I have to take their word. Same with bearings on components that the belt drives -- I just have to assume they're fine.

Supposedly the belt was not worn, just dry. Belt surfaces looked fine -- no cracking, glazing, etc. so maybe Toyota just uses crappy V-belts. I dunno. Seems odd.

Car's under warranty for about another year and the dealership will certainly be doing a more thorough teardown at my request if the belt starts squeaking again this winter when it's wet.

 

[nated05]

I have noticed a squeak from my belt as well, but only after sitting in the rain. The sound goes away after driving a few miles and things dry off so im not worried about it. If it starts doing it all of the time then I would think it might be more serious.

 

[TechWrench]

Not sure if anyone else has had this issue, but my 2004 T4R today had its second new drive belt fitted in 2.5 years.

The first replacement was in late 2006 when the belt started squeaking in wet weather before the engine warmed up. That was done under the factory warranty. This winter, about 27K miles later, the belt started squeaking again when the car was cold/wet.

I took it to the dealer a month ago but the engine was warm so they could not hear the squeaking. They just inspected the tensioners and belt and proclaimed that all was fine. Yesterday I dropped the car off in the evening so it could sit in their lot overnight and get nice and damp/cold. Sure enough, they heard the squeaking and the service manager recommended replacing the drive belt *again*. This after they said the belt looked fine just last month.

Kudos to them... they are replacing the belt gratis because they also replaced it 2.5 years ago (it's not covered by the extended warranty). But WTF is wrong with my truck? Drive belts should last many more years/miles than this, surely. I repeatedly asked them to check the tensioners, since a sticky or badly aligned tensioner could explain why the belt only squeals when cold, but they say all the tensioners are fine.

Anyone have any suggestions?

I noted you have the V6 engine. I'll bet you are having the same problem with the serpentine belt and idler pulley, that many early V6 owners went through. I had my belt changed 4 times during the first 2 years I had my '03. There is a TSB EG012-03 that dealt with this specific problem, which was a warranty item, but given how long you have had yours, it is probably not covered any more. In any case, if your vehicle hasn't had the TSB done, then it may be necessary to fix the squeal, and keep if from coming back.

 

[colombo]

There is definetely a sort of problem there. But I can undestand any tech that it is very difficult to fix someting if you bring the car and you can not reproduce the problem. So my position is if it will become consistant I will have them fix it otherwise it is really hard to find a real cause. Too many components ivolved. But nothing really serious. IMHO.

 

[TechWrench]

Here is the link to an earlier thread on this topic. There is a post by jharris2 about halfway down with a pic of the V6 serpentine belt routing diagram.

http://www.toyota-4runner.org/showthread.php?s=&threadid=16021&perpage=15&pagenumber=2

This image from an earlier post on the belt problems with the V6's indicates a tensioner pulley just to the right, and between the crank and fan pulleys. This is the pulley associated with the belt noise that the TSB I mentioned earlier. The original problem was an engineering issue. The original design for the tensioner pulley had it offset about 15-20 mm from the other two pulleys. Because the three pulleys are so close to each other, the belt was forced to move latterly when it transitioned from the crank pulley to the tensioner, and again from the tensioner to the fan pulley. A new belt could negotiate this transition with out making any noise, but as the belt wore in, it would start to squeal as it went around the tensioner pulley. A simple test for this is to lightly spray the BACK surface of the belt (the side without the ribs), as it goes around the A/C pulley with WD-40. If the noise is because of the tensioner pulley, the belt noise will stop right away, and as the WD-40 wears off, the noise will return. You don't have to use very much WD-40 to make this test work. And, I tried using belt dressing, but the results are the same, the noise returns as soon as the dressing wears off. The TSB fix was to replace the tensioner pulley and mounting arm, and install a shim behind the mounting arm to shift the pulley out so that it better aligns with the other two pulleys and eliminates the transition offset. It took my dealership two tries at this before they got it right, and they replaced the belt two times before they did the TSB, which I had to tell them about before they would try it.

 

[SLED]

^^ Yet another fine example of a very knowledgable owner who has gone through the wringer and had to advise the dealer on how to fix a mechanical problem. Kudos to TechWrench.

 

[BRUIN8124]

I have this exact problem going on. I have already replaced the belt twice now in less than 3 years.

How much did it cost to get the tsb work done? It is driving me up the wall!!!

Thank you guys!!!

 

[TechWrench]

I have this exact problem going on. I have already replaced the belt twice now in less than 3 years.

How much did it cost to get the tsb work done? It is driving me up the wall!!!

Thank you guys!!!

Don't know how much the cost would be to do the 'TSB' now. At that time, it was a warranty issue, so I incurred no cost to me. I would call the dealer, and see if they still have the info on that TSB, and they might be able to give you an estimate. As I understand it, it wasn't a mandatory TSB. It was only to be used, if the customer had the specific complaint. And, by now, I am pretty sure they will no longer treat it as a warranty issue.

 

[BRUIN8124]

Don't know how much the cost would be to do the 'TSB' now. At that time, it was a warranty issue, so I incurred no cost to me. I would call the dealer, and see if they still have the info on that TSB, and they might be able to give you an estimate. As I understand it, it wasn't a mandatory TSB. It was only to be used, if the customer had the specific complaint. And, by now, I am pretty sure they will no longer treat it as a warranty issue.

Thank you for the response!

Oh yeah, I am sure this will all be out of pocket. My warrantee was done a long time ago. Hopefully the TSB is still out there as a guideline.

It seems to act up when it is wet outside. It was squealing like a mother all the way in to work this morning. It has been fine up until this rain showed up here. It is supposed to be drier this weekend. I am curious to see if the squealing stops.

Anyone replaced the tensioner pulley/arm and belt? What did it cost you? Any guesses? Funds are tight and I am just curious how bad of a hit this will be on the credit card.

I hate to bring it to a dealership for this crap. It seems the local guys are content just replacing belts to get me in and get me out.

ugh...

 

[TechWrench]

Thank you for the response!

Oh yeah, I am sure this will all be out of pocket. My warrantee was done a long time ago. Hopefully the TSB is still out there as a guideline.

It seems to act up when it is wet outside. It was squealing like a mother all the way in to work this morning. It has been fine up until this rain showed up here. It is supposed to be drier this weekend. I am curious to see if the squealing stops.

Anyone replaced the tensioner pulley/arm and belt? What did it cost you? Any guesses? Funds are tight and I am just curious how bad of a hit this will be on the credit card.

I hate to bring it to a dealership for this crap. It seems the local guys are content just replacing belts to get me in and get me out.

ugh...

If you are not doing the job yourself, I suspect the cost at a repair shop could be $300.00 or more, depending on how many idler pulleys they may have to replace. The tensioner assembly, which includes a new pulley lists on the Toyota site at $91.00, and the idler pulleys are $41.00 each (and I forget if there are 3 or 4 of them). It all depends on what they find, and what their labor charge is. You may be able to get these items at an aftermarket source, for less, if you are willing and able to do this type of work yourself. It isn't that bad a job to do, if you are mechanically inclined and have the right tools.