Should I, should I not???

[wfo9]

KDSS is a double edge sword. For 95% of buyers, I think it is a good thing. It will improve off-road capabilities in an automagic way without impacting on-road manners.

It is basically a hydraulically controlled sway bar tensioning system.

Here it is explained in laymen terms.
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It will work fine with a lift. It won't allow for extreme articulation that one might want for extreme off-roading. As bimrunner mentioned, this requires long travel. Since our 5th gens have IFS long travel is still very difficult to obtain in the front, but it is very achievable in the rear (where it is actually more important for traction...) Most lifts are good for about 10-11" of wheel travel in the rear. Long travel will get you as much as 18" (I'm honestly guessing here because I don't know the motion ratios). That is all in the form of additional down travel (think longer legs). To get true long travel you have to remove the sway bars completely and that is a PITA with KDSS, yet super easy without.

This is not a 4 runner, but an FJ with the same suspension. This is long travel in the rear. I'm sure bimrunner has some pictures of his truck flexing. That is not lift (the truck is just lifted 3") it is added down travel.

The next pic is my truck. Currently without Long travel (I'm working on changing that very soon, it's not that expensive....). It will give you and idea of why long travel is so desirable in extreme terrain. I actually have the rear sway bar on with extended links in this pic. So it would be a little better with KDSS, but not by much. With long travel, both rear wheels would be well planted on the ground.

If you are just doing easy trails...long travel is rarely if ever needed and you can usually get around it with recovery or just picking perfect lines...

 

[Doc_Fry]

All talks of mods, but what do you want the truck to do. Meaning what are you going to be doing in it? Slight offroad, moderate, or heavy. Occasional weekends a year, ever chance you get off roa, more time on than off? Desert drivig, forest roads etc.. Qualify what fits for you no need to go too far with some mods as they will be at the expense of streetability and on road manners, where it will most likely spend most of its time unkess a dedicated trail rig. Many approach this is a unrealaistic manner. Also know what your skills are. Maybe take a offroad driving coarse and see what you could do in a stock truck first before doing anything. I betcha it would be alot morethan you think.

Towing you should be fine, my FJ same powerplant towed a ranger just fine.

 

[Jeremy556]

To get true long travel you have to remove the sway bars completely and that is a PITA with KDSS, yet super easy without. /QUOTE]
Not really, a ratchet tie down around the KDSS piston and you're GTG. Does suck to remove something you paid an extra $1500 for.

 

[wfo9]

All talks of mods, but what do you want the truck to do. Meaning what are you going to be doing in it? Slight offroad, moderate, or heavy. Occasional weekends a year, ever chance you get off roa, more time on than off? Desert drivig, forest roads etc.. Qualify what fits for you no need to go too far with some mods as they will be at the expense of streetability and on road manners, where it will most likely spend most of its time unkess a dedicated trail rig. Many approach this is a unrealaistic manner. Also know what your skills are. Maybe take a offroad driving coarse and see what you could do in a stock truck first before doing anything. I betcha it would be alot morethan you think.

Towing you should be fine, my FJ same powerplant towed a ranger just fine.

We are not telling him what he needs. We are telling him what we have learned on our journeys and answering his questions. His questions were all geared towards capability offroad, so we are presenting how those gadgets function in the real world.

I was not even sure if I wanted 4wd when I first started looking for a 4runner this time around. Then I got bit by the bug again.... If you are here asking questions like this you are probably going to end up getting into it....

There is always all this talk on here about a stock 4runner being so capable... sure it can do a few things with a skilled driver, but it is really not all that capable (in my book). It can struggle its way through some pretty rough stuff, but the reality is that a stock 4 runner is just not that great offroad. It is meh at best. It's a pretty good platform to build on.

Not saying you should go out and modify it day one or anything... but you should buy the correct model for your plans and know why you might not want to pay for something that will get in the way later.

 

[wfo9]

To get true long travel you have to remove the sway bars completely and that is a PITA with KDSS, yet super easy without. /QUOTE]
Not really, a ratchet tie down around the KDSS piston and you're GTG. Does suck to remove something you paid an extra $1500 for.

Ok. but then you have that nagging light on the dash that will never go away. Right?

 

[Matt2558]

Well all of your information i extremely helpful. I am thinking I will be fine with KDSS as I am using mine as a daily driver, but adding a suspension lift as we do occasionally go off-road, probably 4-6 times per year. When we do go we tend to stick to moderate trails that have some difficult spots, but we don't normally get too extreme. Before this I had an Xterra Pro-4X and I had three inches of lift on it as well and it did really well on everything we ran. I actually put a deposit down on a trial edition today that I should be picking up Thursday once it arrives on the truck and goes through PDI. I am looking forward to getting it and starting to learn its ways and such. I appreciate all of your input and know there will likely be other areas where I will need advice along the way. Thanks again!

 

[Donkey]

I actually put a deposit down on a trial edition today that I should be picking up Thursday once it arrives on the truck and goes through PDI. I am looking forward to getting it and starting to learn its ways and such. I appreciate all of your input and know there will likely be other areas where I will need advice along the way. Thanks again!

Did you get it here in the boro? They were quite proud of the pro I saw in Franklin.

 

[Doc_Fry]

We are not telling him what he needs. We are telling him what we have learned on our journeys and answering his questions. His questions were all geared towards capability offroad, so we are presenting how those gadgets function in the real world.

I was not even sure if I wanted 4wd when I first started looking for a 4runner this time around. Then I got bit by the bug again.... If you are here asking questions like this you are probably going to end up getting into it....

There is always all this talk on here about a stock 4runner being so capable... sure it can do a few things with a skilled driver, but it is really not all that capable (in my book). It can struggle its way through some pretty rough stuff, but the reality is that a stock 4 runner is just not that great offroad. It is meh at best. It's a pretty good platform to build on.

Not saying you should go out and modify it day one or anything... but you should buy the correct model for your plans and know why you might not want to pay for something that will get in the way later.

I do understand each are coming from there experience and the way that they use the 4runner. But to better understand the OPS needs why is it so bad to take a step back and say what do you want it to do, what needs do you have that need met? Is that not how you narrow and define data for a better tailored answer. Again, in your book it does meh, but no meantion of driving schools and the such. My point such as in shooting you can go out and spend 5k on an AR system or spend about 2500k for a top of the line rifle and optics. Will the top of the line system outshoot the other of course. But, not many shooters can. It is mostly better spent to spend your money and energy into some training to push your skill level even further. Now with the OP in mind we can point him in a direction to se what the vehicke is capable of what his limits and the trucks limits are and improve upon them boh making an even more capable platform without sacraficing what one would consider a good driver.

 

[Matt2558]

Did you get it here in the boro? They were quite proud of the pro I saw in Franklin.

I actually got it at the Cool Springs dealer in Franklin because they had it allocated and expected it there by Thursday, but didn't have any other trails available and there weren't any else in the area.

 

[wfo9]

I do understand each are coming from there experience and the way that they use the 4runner. But to better understand the OPS needs why is it so bad to take a step back and say what do you want it to do, what needs do you have that need met? Is that not how you narrow and define data for a better tailored answer. Again, in your book it does meh, but no meantion of driving schools and the such. My point such as in shooting you can go out and spend 5k on an AR system or spend about 2500k for a top of the line rifle and optics. Will the top of the line system outshoot the other of course. But, not many shooters can. It is mostly better spent to spend your money and energy into some training to push your skill level even further. Now with the OP in mind we can point him in a direction to se what the vehicke is capable of what his limits and the trucks limits are and improve upon them boh making an even more capable platform without sacraficing what one would consider a good driver.

He pretty much said what he wanted to do. He wanted a lift.. and planned to run semi-aggressive trails. He landed on a trail vs a pro and wanted to know if he should get KDSS. We gave him the pros and cons of that. I think he decided on getting a trail with KDSS, which I think was a great choice. If you go back and read, I actually said it was a good choice for 95% of buyers. I think he made a well informed decision....

He can keep it stock at first and see if he wants tires, lift... I'm pretty sure he will quickly realize the limits in stock form.

There is a constant drum beat on here that stock 4runners are very capable offroad and that is simply not the case. I'm just being honest and not kidding myself. It does not take much to make it much better, tires alone are a 50% improvement.

 

[Doc_Fry]

He pretty much said what he wanted to do. He wanted a lift.. and planned to run semi-aggressive trails. He landed on a trail vs a pro and wanted to know if he should get KDSS. We gave him the pros and cons of that. I think he decided on getting a trail with KDSS, which I think was a great choice. If you go back and read, I actually said it was a good choice for 95% of buyers. I think he made a well informed decision....

He can keep it stock at first and see if he wants tires, lift... I'm pretty sure he will quickly realize the limits in stock form.

There is a constant drum beat on here that stock 4runners are very capable offroad and that is simply not the case. I'm just being honest and not kidding myself. It does not take much to make it much better, tires alone are a 50% improvement.

I must have missed tha when reading through or when I posted the response. I do agree tires can be a #1 upgrade if you are doing any type of trail.

 

[Donkey]

I actually got it at the Cool Springs dealer in Franklin because they had it allocated and expected it there by Thursday, but didn't have any other trails available and there weren't any else in the area.

Congrats!

I've not had any trouble at lbl, windrock or wolly's (within reason) totally stock. Tires would help but I will wait until the stockers wear out first.

 

[mace.]

There is a constant drum beat on here that stock 4runners are very capable offroad and that is simply not the case. I'm just being honest and not kidding myself. It does not take much to make it much better, tires alone are a 50% improvement.

Just because you think that tires will make a 50% improvement doesn't mean that the 4Runner is not capable in stock form. How did you even quantify that by the way? I'm by no means an expert offroad but have had multiple professional offroad drivers / instructors in my truck and even when the stock tires were still on they thought overall it was capable and impressed by the performance. Theses are guys that teach people that their $100k rides can actually get dirty, tire test, have written for magazines, and have driven for a multitude of truck commercials.

 

[Doc_Fry]

There is a constant drum beat on here that stock 4runners are very capable offroad and that is simply not the case. I'm just being honest and not kidding myself. It does not take much to make it much better, tires alone are a 50% improvement.

Once again you are putting your skill into it. Ir your term of capability is a rock crawler. As in stock form it is a capable offroad vehicle. It can tackle most if not all basic offroad adventures, and I bet with a skilled driver most moderate adventures. Will tires help as I said before definitely yes not 50%, yet not more so than traction control, a rear differential, good skills, proper recovery equipment, etc.

Can a vehicle in stock form be more difficult to drive in those areas yes it could and possibly more prone to damage. How is one to truley know what ones limits are unless they are looked at externally and pushed even further past there failure point to make a different outcome. That comes in skill and education and drivers training. My best recommendation you could use for the rest of your life. Basic, intermeddiate driving as well as recovery. Instructors will recommend basic things. It may be more viable for one to forgo the immediate lift and go with underbody protection, rock sliders, and recvoery equipment. To the lines of all terain tires, and if warranted a lift to change clearance issues seen on drivers outings. The best upgrade i ever made was a good set of recovery equipment. I still use it to this day.

Now we go once again into modifactions versus the sacrifice that is made to the drivability of the the vehicle. The value to me of the 4Runner is that it is a vehicle built out of the gate with a dual purpose in mind. Maybe leaning a bit more towards road worthiness. Where I will spend 90% or not more of my time as well as most others. I myself know what the limitations are of the vehicle and where I would be going and weighedout extensively what I wanted verusus the reality of driving. Coukd I have another Pinzgauer or Defender or some crazy SASs rig yep. Not very practicle. So i opted for a package giving me a factory warranty with uograded tires and the such that i knew woukd fit 95% of my needs based on previous experiences from Colorado, Hawaii, to the South East US as well as Moab and desert driving in Arizona. I will be upgrading mine to not be the coolest but what fits my driving style ie a winch, rack, underbody, rails. I have used some of my hard earned money towards driving courses as I wanted to drive from Scotland down through South Africa. Gosh a bit off the point here, anyways try a driving course you wont be disappointed money well spent. Dont underestimate the value of a stock vehicle either. Know it limitations and how they affect your driving style.

 

[wfo9]

Just because you think that tires will make a 50% improvement doesn't mean that the 4Runner is not capable in stock form. How did you even quantify that by the way? I'm by no means an expert offroad but have had multiple professional offroad drivers / instructors in my truck and even when the stock tires were still on they thought overall it was capable and impressed by the performance. Theses are guys that teach people that their $100k rides can actually get dirty, tire test, have written for magazines, and have driven for a multitude of truck commercials.

I consider your tires failing on the trail vs actually holding up until you get back to pavement at least a 50% improvement ;-)

I'm just calling it like I see it. You are welcome to disagree. When you find people that really take their trucks offroad on a regular basis, they won't be stock for a reason. That's all I'm saying.

There are pros and cons to every modification you make. You just have to make compromises...

 

[Doc_Fry]

I consider your tires failing on the trail vs actually holding up until you get back to pavement at least a 50% improvement ;-)

I'm just calling it like I see it. You are welcome to disagree. When you find people that really take their trucks offroad on a regular basis, they won't be stock for a reason. That's all I'm saying.

There are pros and cons to every modification you make. You just have to make compromises...

Not always true, in the manner I beleve that you mean. Many use stock and slightly stock vehicles on a regular basis. My ooint is that sometimes you are giving up too much for the small benefits that it does provide with modifications. Now do I like modifying trucks yep, will this one be most oikely one of the least modifpied. Probably but my Pinzgauer was near stock also, the purpose of the 4runner was made to be dual purpose on and off road, there are many other vehicles out there more capable for just on and many for off. Now when people usually respond to what should I do it is nearly the same hum drum answer. Lift, bigger tires. My point is that we forget that not all use the vehicle in the same manner nor do the geographical challenges are the same, rock, mud, established trails, etc.

I am an odd one as I know this vehicle will not be the end all off roader that I enjoy, as I am staying near stock albiet the truck has Nitto Grapplers, though I am on dirt, gravel, and fire roads every single day. i am sure that we can use all of our experiences to help any manner of driver in their search.

 

[Matt2558]

Congrats!

I've not had any trouble at lbl, windrock or wolly's (within reason) totally stock. Tires would help but I will wait until the stockers wear out first.

Sounds like you go to a lot of the same places that me and a few friends of mine frequent. We should do a run sometime. We actually have a small group going this weekend to coal creek to begin teaching my wife and a friend of mines brother. If you're interested just let me know.

In response to the other posts I am hopefully picking up my truck this Thursday and I having been involved in this hobby for a while I am immediately starting my build as I have already ordered wheels, tires, lift, and sliders. I am sure skids will soon follow as well as a hidden mount winch if I can find a good setup that looks clean. Again I appreciate all of the feedback during my decision process and look forward to hopefully meeting some members on trails.