Small spacers with Icon Suspension?

[BOFFROAD]

I have adjustable 2.5 Icon Extended travel coilovers on my 2005 V8 4WD 4Runner. Ever since I installed them I haven't been able to achieve the height I would like in the front. I almost have the maximum amount of threads exposed above the collar which I believe is 1.5 inches. It hasn't reached 3 inches of lift in the front and still has some rake. I think this is because Icon might use the same kit for the V6 and 2WD models which would have much lighter front ends.

My question is:
Can I use some small spacers above the coilovers like these?
Front Top Plate Spacer Kit

The only problem I see that may occur is if the suspension takes a hard hit, it may not make contact with the bump stop causing damage to take place to the shock, however, with these coilovers does the suspension even come into contact with the factory bump stops or do they use internal bump stops?

 

[HiVel-JR]

Funny, i looked for the same thing back in November of 2015. I feel the front is just not level or as level as it should be and I have my icons cranked down.

I remember I found some articles on the 120 forum and the FJ forum about guys running thin spacers to level out the driver side lean or trying to get that extra bit of lift to level out on Tacomas or FJs. I believe the posts were from 2012. Many of the responses from other users were warnings of bottoming out the shocks.

On my rear 3" springs i left my cornfed 1" spacer on to correct the drivers side lean which did work, but on the front coil over.... no idea.

I personally have never seen it on the internet or up close in person.

Let us know if you find anything.

 

[gm350reratliff]

What is the spring rate of your coils? Aftermarket bumper/winch? I believe most out of the box Icons come with 650# coils but I have seen a few with 600# coils as well. I have Icons on my 5th gen (650# coils) and it easily lifted it 3", you may need heavier coils. I think you can crank them past 1.5" of thread showing and be ok though.

 

[zidaro]

you could slip a spacer in there to get a little bump, if you could find a spacer to fit the tophat. Its not the same shape as the top of OEM strut.
You also can crank the coil down a little bit beyond 1.5", issues arise when you've cranked it to less than the compressed length of the coil, then when it bottoms, the spring compresses on itself and crushes itself.

But, the correct way to achieve proper ride height is to suspend the vehicle with the proper spring. You need to up up your rate to a 650 or 700# spring. Easy to do, and then you did it right. It'll ride much better than a cranked down over compressed lightweight spring

 

[Inv4drZm]

Yeah, I have no complaints with my 700# coils + V8 and stock front bumper even. Need to measure how much of threads are exposed but I have a full 3" in the front.

 

[GX4SEVEND]

Yeah, I have no complaints with my 700# coils + V8 and stock front bumper even. Need to measure how much of threads are exposed but I have a full 3" in the front.

Someone smart probably replaced those with taller coils haha.

You should buy icon or king coils in a longer length, like 14". This allows a taller lift with less preload on the spring. Just a thought.

 

[Civiceg94]

I though about the same thing. To put spacer. The way it came from icon i like the way it rides. Am afriad if i crank it up a bit itll change the way it rides.

 

[EdmundGTP]

I though about the same thing. To put spacer. The way it came from icon i like the way it rides. Am afriad if i crank it up a bit itll change the way it rides.

It will change the way it rides.

Another thing to consider. The coilover assemblies designed for our trucks have a specific length when fully extended. That length is determined by the optimum travel range of both the suspension linkage, and the operation range of the CV joint. Adding a spacer on TOP of the coilver may likely forces the knuckle droop to be further than what the CV can accommodate. I.e. extreme CV angle when either of the front wheels is nearly unloaded.

Consider the scenario in which you're climbing up uneven terrain. One of your front wheels completely unloads and that CV angle is now way past the normal operating range because of the top spacer you added. ATRAC kicks in, and locks the brake at that same corner, and now your drivetrain is transmitting intermittent torque through a CV who's angle is very close to, or maxed out. Bye bye CV joint.

 

[RonJR]

You're much more likely to over-stress the CV by turning sharply than you are by any reasonable amount of suspension droop. The front wheels have a maximum turning angle of around 30 degrees. To get that much of a CV angle with suspension droop would require a droop of about 7-8 inches from horizontal at the wheel. A 1" spacer isn't going to get you to that point. You'd have to do a roughly 4" spacer-only lift to get those kind of angles.

It's also worth noting that preload does not change the stiffness of a spring. Stiffness is set by spring materials and construction. Consequently preload, whether done by raising the spring perch on the shock, or by inserting a spacer at the top of the shock, does not change the ride at all unless you shift the ride height so much that you are hitting the bump stops or exceeding the shock travel. As long as the preload does not exceed the vehicle weight (which case would prevent the suspension from getting off the lower stop), the spring operating point does not change, regardless of preload. It is still the same stiffness spring, and it is still supporting exactly the same amount of weight, therefore its loaded length will be exactly the same as it was before the preload change.

Preload does bias the suspension operating point away from center. Where spacers and other lift options cause trouble is when the suspension nominal operating point is biased too far from its center value, causing the suspension to frequently hit the stops on one end or the other, or causing the spring to go into coil bind before the stops are reached. As long as neither of those situations occur, the ride should be indistinguishable from the non-preloaded case.

 

[Civiceg94]

so how are the people on this forum reaching heights of 39 inches without complaining about cv angles and also vibration from having the cv at weird angles?

 

[EdmundGTP]

You're much more likely to over-stress the CV by turning sharply than you are by any reasonable amount of suspension droop. The front wheels have a maximum turning angle of around 30 degrees. To get that much of a CV angle with suspension droop would require a droop of about 7-8 inches from horizontal at the wheel. A 1" spacer isn't going to get you to that point. You'd have to do a roughly 4" spacer-only lift to get those kind of angles.

By that reasoning, wouldn't a 3" coilover lift with a 1" spacer on top of it get you damn close to it?

What about an over max suspension droop PLUS turning the wheels?

 

[GX4SEVEND]

so how are the people on this forum reaching heights of 39 inches without complaining about cv angles and also vibration from having the cv at weird angles?

Just like I stated, you run a taller spring. Stock icon spring is 13" I believe. They have an option to order with a 14" spring or you can order 14" springs from king.

I'm sitting at almost 41" ground to fender and have like 1" of thread showing.

I have a gx470 and it comes with a negative CV angle from the factory so lifting it is pretty simple. I also do not run a diff drop and have zero issues with CV joints or vibration.

 

[Inv4drZm]

so how are the people on this forum reaching heights of 39 inches without complaining about cv angles and also vibration from having the cv at weird angles?

I'm at 40" ground to fender with a 1.5" BL and 33's. Longer 700# King coils and 1" of thread showing. CV angles are awesome with the diff drop but front skid plate needed lowered a bit.

People should stop measuring from the ground and start doing it from the center of the hub or something that way tire sizes and wear won't factor in.
[MENTION=28692]GX4SEVEND[/MENTION] has 35's which screws up the comparison.

 

[RonJR]

Running taller springs will have the same effect on the CV as a tall spacer. The CV only cares about the relative height of the differential compared to the center of the wheel. That's why people with large lifts do diff drops.

CV vibration may well occur at smaller angles than 30 deg, but my post was originally about breakage, not vibration. Not many people crank their steering wheels to full lock while going fast enough for vibration to be a factor, at least and live to tell about it.

Just went out and did some measurements on my stock '06 Sport, to put some science into this. The CV joints are 12 inches apart, and the CV offset is a negative 1.5 inches. That gives a CV angle of 7 degrees. Fender height is 34 inches. If I lifted to 40 inches without moving the diff, the CV offset would go to a positive 4.5 inches. That would be a CV angle of 20 degrees, still a lot less than the maximum steering angle. Dropping the diff 1.5 inches would make the CV angle a mild 14 degrees. That's assuming the entire lift was a suspension lift. If part of it was a body lift, which doesn't raise the diff, the angles would be even better.

 

[BOFFROAD]

Thanks for replies. I'd rather not put too much angle on the CV's so I'll ditch the spacers and I will try giving the collars a few more turns. If thats not enough I will begin looking for 700# springs if they don't cost too much.

 

[Civiceg94]

Ill call icon one of these days and see what they say.

 

[BOFFROAD]

Alright so my springs have number 158504 on them which are the 650# springs. The 700# springs are 158508. After measuring I have 1.75" of threads showing above the collar which is the max recommended by Icon. Would it be okay going to 2" of threads if I can even get it there. Measuring from the center of the wheel to fender is 22.5".