Sniv's Custom Long Travel Build

[snivilous]

[MENTION=92884]snivilous[/MENTION]

I came across this badass long travel kit made by a company called dirt designs, designed for 1st gen tacoma and 3rd gen 4runner and wanted to show it to you in case your able to get any ideas from it. The lower control arm with a built in vertical style uniball is genius and a really cool setup.

There is info on it on desertrangerz and TTORA

Check it out!
Toyota Tacoma 4x4 Long Travel Suspension Full Kit

Funny you should post that since I was looking at that exact arm early this morning. It's a sweet setup for sure! I toyed with the idea of vertical uniballs for awhile, but I don't want to make a custom spindle the first time around. I'd like to run a vertical uniball and a custom boxed spindle but that'll probably wait until a 2nd gen setup.

That's pretty BA but I'm still really excited to see what sniv comes up with.

Speaking of which sniv are you working on your lowers over break?

I can't make anything over break since I'm strapped for cash :sobbing: The lowers design is essentially done, I just need to work on the upper arm's design. My fenders should be arriving in the next week or two hopefully.

 

[Illestreker]

Funny you should post that since I was looking at that exact arm early this morning. It's a sweet setup for sure! I toyed with the idea of vertical uniballs for awhile, but I don't want to make a custom spindle the first time around. I'd like to run a vertical uniball and a custom boxed spindle but that'll probably wait until a 2nd gen setup.

Thats whats nice about that dirt designs kit... The vertical uniball on the lower control arm attaches to an adapter which bolts on to the stock spindle! So if you wanted to run stock spindles its entirely possibly to mimic something similar for your setup.

 

[snivilous]

Thats whats nice about that dirt designs kit... The vertical uniball on the lower control arm attaches to an adapter which bolts on to the stock spindle! So if you wanted to run stock spindles its entirely possibly to mimic something similar for your setup.

Oh wow I didn't realize that! I'll have to look back at that setup, and it'd be an easy change to the current design I have. Only thing that I'm thinking about now, is one of the guys on Dezert Rangers said 10G frontal load and 5G vertical so obviously following that mindset it'd be better to mount the uniball horizontally. Which I think makes sense (having the frontal loading be higher), since if the nose drops as you are landing you have all the force resulting from the weight and speed of the truck versus just the weight of the truck (as would affect the vertical loading). That'd also explain why 90% of uniball setups are horizontal... but I'll definitely look into it more! Thanks for pointing that out!

 

[MaverickTRD]

sweet thread, some good documentation and out loud thinking for sure.
Do you plan on fabbing your kit to be 3.5" over? Should be interesting to see the final outcome. I personally would buy a kit, and then put my fab skills to work in the rear since there are so many tried and true options for up front.

I currently have a 3rd gen with an OME lift, and a double cab taco that is long traveled...the ride difference is amazing! then again, so are the creeks, groans, and noises lol.
I'm interested to see how your rear design will look. IMO the rear is more important than up front, and if you are netting 13+ inches of travel up front, I think you're going to want a few more inches than that in the rear. i think you should relook at the shocks and coilover options out there as well. Nothing wrong with Bilstein, but these more expensive brands are worth their weight when you're cycling through whoops and don't want to buck around, plus the shock tuning is awesome.
Have you thought about going to leafs out back with a custom deaver pack? Factory links is sweet, maybe go off that and work up a triangulated rear?

an easy/basic set up that would gain you about 12" of travel would be some simple hoops, but again I think you're gonna want more travel than that....alas, here is a pic for example:

Can't wait to see some updates man! I just stumbled on this thread and read thru the whole thing!

 

[Illestreker]

The guy who created it posted in that thread, you could always message him about the technical stuff. As far as horizontal uniballs in uca and lca it's more common than a vertical setup because its easier to do utilizing a stock spindle which keeps cost down for an affordable off the shelf "kit". When you start seeing much more expensive and less marketable kits with long travel a lot of times that have custom spindles utilizing vertical uniballs in the uppers and lowers. A few fab shops that I've talked to over the years said its because a horizontally setuped uniball can get maxed out pretty quick where as the vertical setup uniball the limitations no longer are on the joint itself.

Because your doing a long travel on 4x4 with about 14" travel you probably will not max out a horizontal uniball joint. Most LT setups using vertical mounted uniballs are 2wd pulling 20-22" travel.

 

[snivilous]

sweet thread, some good documentation and out loud thinking for sure.
Do you plan on fabbing your kit to be 3.5" over? Should be interesting to see the final outcome. I personally would buy a kit, and then put my fab skills to work in the rear since there are so many tried and true options for up front.

I currently have a 3rd gen with an OME lift, and a double cab taco that is long traveled...the ride difference is amazing! then again, so are the creeks, groans, and noises lol.
I'm interested to see how your rear design will look. IMO the rear is more important than up front, and if you are netting 13+ inches of travel up front, I think you're going to want a few more inches than that in the rear. i think you should relook at the shocks and coilover options out there as well. Nothing wrong with Bilstein, but these more expensive brands are worth their weight when you're cycling through whoops and don't want to buck around, plus the shock tuning is awesome.
Have you thought about going to leafs out back with a custom deaver pack? Factory links is sweet, maybe go off that and work up a triangulated rear?

an easy/basic set up that would gain you about 12" of travel would be some simple hoops, but again I think you're gonna want more travel than that....alas, here is a pic for example:

Can't wait to see some updates man! I just stumbled on this thread and read thru the whole thing!

That's sweet! Someday I'll get a taco and pimp it out like you did Yup, the current design is 3.5" over. And interesting you say that about Bilstein since I've been doing a lot of research on shocks and hardly anyone runs Bilstein. My tentative plan is to run Fox 2.5" remote resi 10" coilovers, they have the most consistent good reviews and would be easy to get parts for since they're so common. What shocks are you running on your taco?

And a few hours ago I saw this picture of an LT'd 4th gen with leafs in the back:

I Pm'ed the guy who owns it on Dezert Rangers but he hasn't replied. From thinking about it and talking to my dad, the reason you would go with leafs instead of a linked rear is for more travel, is that correct? Since with a linked axle you need coils, and at really long travel you need a guide post for the coils which is where a coilover comes in, but for more droop you bigger shock and if you don't want to go through the floor then you are just losing up travel (and increasing ride height/CG). The guy with the 4th gen has a cantilevered leaf sprung axle so his shocks don't reduce his up travel since they are mounted where his spare is. I can't figure out any other reasons you wouldn't go with linking...

How much travel is your taco running in the rear, and in the front for that matter? I've toyed with the idea of a triangulated rear and the back end is definitely gonna get worked on over the summer when I get off school. And I agree I'm gonna need a lot more travel in the rear... I could try to go with a cantilever setup but at that point I'm running into the issue of the rear coils being too long and flopping around--unless I went with a trailing arm setup and moved the coils forward, but I might have to relocate the gas tank or add a cross member... ahhhh haha. Maybe leafs are the way to go! Eitherway, I haven't even measured and hardly looked at the rear suspension, I shouldn't jump to conclusions :redbrick: haha.

It's annoying I'm in college and can't afford anything, otherwise I would buy a taco and LT it and buy the kits like you said. Oh well, if I want the 4Runner to be stock width in a few years I can pull everything off, and at the end of the day it's gonna ride like a dream

 

[snivilous]

The guy who created it posted in that thread, you could always message him about the technical stuff. As far as horizontal uniballs in uca and lca it's more common than a vertical setup because its easier to do utilizing a stock spindle which keeps cost down for an affordable off the shelf "kit". When you start seeing much more expensive and less marketable kits with long travel a lot of times that have custom spindles utilizing vertical uniballs in the uppers and lowers. A few fab shops that I've talked to over the years said its because a horizontally setuped uniball can get maxed out pretty quick where as the vertical setup uniball the limitations no longer are on the joint itself.

Because your doing a long travel on 4x4 with about 14" travel you probably will not max out a horizontal uniball joint. Most LT setups using vertical mounted uniballs are 2wd pulling 20-22" travel.

Okay, that makes sense. That was why I was looking at vertical uniballs to begin with was since the uniball doesn't limited your travel, but from my calculations the CV is going to bind before the uniball limits the travel. Somewhere I have it written down, but the uniball with a 30 degree misalignment or something maxed with like 15-16" of travel, so right after the CV (which makes sense since that's about what the CVs motion is). In the next few days I'll probably pull the tire and coilover again and look at the spindle and take some more measurements. Are you running long travel/uniballs on anything?

 

[Illestreker]

I built my own custom mid travel kit for a Chevy truck a few years ago. As for the 4runner, it's stock righ now but I'm gonna start building it soon.

What size coilovers are you gonna use? I'm assuming 2.5x10?

 

[MaverickTRD]

My bad on the confusion about the bilsteins, I thought I read a few pages back you were looking at going with rebuildable 7100/9100s.
I like fox and saw/racerunner a lot. I have SAW coilovers/bumps/shocks on my rig right now. Really the big 3-5 companies will be comparable with pricing, rebuilding, and durability. I will note that king offers two different types, prerunner and race series. Fox and others have one and they are like the "race" series. Really it comes down to, what's your favorite color haha

I think its really cool that you are sticking with the 4runner over getting a taco. Cabin space can't be beat! Sure it may be a little more difficult at first, but with the detail and thought processes you have going on your build I think when you're done the gratification will be amazing! My wife dailys the 4runner so I didn't want to dig into it too much. I will finish the front mid travel but that is about it.

I too am broke and am continuing my build. My tuck is 2wd with roughly 14" up front at the moment and 17 out back. Unfortunately the rear is nowhere near done yet. I could pull more up front if I fabbed some coil buckets and went with a longer coilover up front with dual rate springs. That's the plan....one day, sigh it really bleeds you dry lol

That 4th gen you posted has a build thread on ttora... I can get the link and post it if you want. He fabbed up his whole kit as well. Its amazing

You're right, with links you're either going to go thru the body into the rear hatch, or some other crazy process. Links are amazing, seems all the big money rigs have a link set up and our 4runners start with that base. I'm guessing the 4th gen guy went leafs for simplicity and ease of use. They really are tons easier. I'll never link my taco, mainly cuz I still street it a lot and that is just way too much money for my pockets

 

[MaverickTRD]

Here's that guys build thread
How to ruin a 2008 4Runner - TTORA Forum

 

[Illestreker]

I'd love to do this with mine...

Rear Coilover Mounting

16" travel and I'm sure rides way better than leafs.

 

[snivilous]

My bad on the confusion about the bilsteins, I thought I read a few pages back you were looking at going with rebuildable 7100/9100s.
I like fox and saw/racerunner a lot. I have SAW coilovers/bumps/shocks on my rig right now. Really the big 3-5 companies will be comparable with pricing, rebuilding, and durability. I will note that king offers two different types, prerunner and race series. Fox and others have one and they are like the "race" series. Really it comes down to, what's your favorite color haha

I think its really cool that you are sticking with the 4runner over getting a taco. Cabin space can't be beat! Sure it may be a little more difficult at first, but with the detail and thought processes you have going on your build I think when you're done the gratification will be amazing! My wife dailys the 4runner so I didn't want to dig into it too much. I will finish the front mid travel but that is about it.

I too am broke and am continuing my build. My tuck is 2wd with roughly 14" up front at the moment and 17 out back. Unfortunately the rear is nowhere near done yet. I could pull more up front if I fabbed some coil buckets and went with a longer coilover up front with dual rate springs. That's the plan....one day, sigh it really bleeds you dry lol

That 4th gen you posted has a build thread on ttora... I can get the link and post it if you want. He fabbed up his whole kit as well. Its amazing

You're right, with links you're either going to go thru the body into the rear hatch, or some other crazy process. Links are amazing, seems all the big money rigs have a link set up and our 4runners start with that base. I'm guessing the 4th gen guy went leafs for simplicity and ease of use. They really are tons easier. I'll never link my taco, mainly cuz I still street it a lot and that is just way too much money for my pockets

Wow that 4th gen build is incredible, I hope my fabbing looks half that good! And you're right I looked at the bilstein 9100s but I wasn't too impressed when I compared them to the other shocks. [MENTION=89531]Cartzo[/MENTION] picked up some SAW shocks for his rear a few weeks ago and is installing them now, and then my buddy with an XJ has some pretty new Fox shocks in the front, so I can compare how they all behave and quality etc. a bit before I buy mine.

The information you and [MENTION=96765]Illestreker[/MENTION] are providing is awesome, the only thing most people are into on this forum is SASing so it's nice to have some ideas thrown around for me to think about!

Okay, everything beyond this is essentially me typing out everything that's just flowing out of my brain...

I'd love to do this with mine...

Rear Coilover Mounting

16" travel and I'm sure rides way better than leafs.

Now that's an interesting setup. The idea I'm toying with right now is a cantilever setup under the body like the 4th gen did. I don't know how much space on stock full bump there is, but regardless it seems like you can move the cantilever pivot almost anywhere and likewise with the shocks.

And then I'm also thinking about how to go about triangulating the rear end. I'm not very familiar with solid axle stuff, what is the benefit of a triangulated axle? I know you don't have a track bar, so is that why trucks meant for jumping/speed usually are triangulated? Since at full droop with a track bar the axle would get shifted to the side which would be bad, and normal rock crawlers don't have that much shifting since they only have one tire drooping which explains why they run radius arms/long arm/3-link/etc. with track bars and are super flexy still. Is that logic right?

So then it'd be easiest to run a single triangulated setup, since I could run the links on either side to the frame. If I did a double triangulated then I would have to put mounts on either side of the drive shaft, and to make that strong I would have to add a cross member probably which would involve moving/modifying the gas tank (assuming I wouldn't have to do that with a single triangulated anyways). And if I moved the gas tank, probably to the spare tire location, that would mean I would have issues with a cantilevered setup since the passenger side shock would be near the exhaust and in front of the axle... So it seems like off the top of my head single triangulated would be best, with trailing arms and springs then contacting the frame, and then a cantilevered shock setup in the spare tire area. :doh: I'm getting ahead of myself again haha, BUT that would be a sweet setup and be able to give me quite a bit of up travel and essentially all the down travel I wanted until my U joints were binding... Of course, that's assuming I wanted more than 16" of rear travel like Illestreker posted. Go big or go home though right :first: Thoughts on anything I just blabbed out?

 

[snivilous]

I built my own custom mid travel kit for a Chevy truck a few years ago. As for the 4runner, it's stock righ now but I'm gonna start building it soon.

What size coilovers are you gonna use? I'm assuming 2.5x10?

Yea that's the plan, preferably with a dual rate setup.

 

[Jedrattle]

I like this build and how much you wheel it. That light bar is crazy. I would stay away from sway away. Fox is the best bang for the buck. Sway away can be difficult to deal with. I live by Kar Tek. If you don't know about them...they supply most of the big names in the off road industry with high end parts. They barely keep any sway away stuff on the shelf. They have most of the fox product line in stock. That should say something. I want to long travel my runner soo bad but it's not $$ cards anytime soon. If/when I do it, I want to get the dirt designs set up because of the lower uni ball.

 

[Cartzo]

I like this build and how much you wheel it. That light bar is crazy. I would stay away from sway away. Fox is the best bang for the buck. Sway away can be difficult to deal with. I live by Kar Tek. If you don't know about them...they supply most of the big names in the off road industry with high end parts. They barely keep any sway away stuff on the shelf. They have most of the fox product line in stock. That should say something. I want to long travel my runner soo bad but it's not $$ cards anytime soon. If/when I do it, I want to get the dirt designs set up because of the lower uni ball.

Have you used SAWs?

 

[Jedrattle]

Yes, I have. I now have Foxes on my FJ40 project. My shock guy, who tunes most of the KOH cars, prefers Fox. If/when I get to LT my runner I will probably go with Icon because my buddy and I deal with them directly, because of the race car.

 

[Cartzo]

Yes, I have. I now have Foxes on my FJ40 project. My shock guy, who tunes most of the KOH cars, prefers Fox. If/when I get to LT my runner I will probably go with Icon because my buddy and I deal with them directly, because of the race car.

So the Fox's perform better? I'm just curious cause everyone talks shit on SAW. I picked up some SAWs for a good deal. If I had the money I would've gone with Fox. I probably will when I convert to coilovers.

 

[MaverickTRD]

Fox doesn't out perform them they have better/the best customer service but people hate on saw like flat bill bros swing on kings....all the cool kids do it. Saws perform very well, are easy to rebuild have a great collapsed length and are built well also.

Fox is a huge company with a lot of different products from bikes to trucks. They have interest in the sport as well. I'm now saying saw is any better but they are just as good quality

I don't think it would be worth it for someone to sell a brand they currently have only for the sake of spending more money to change brands

 

[ohio4runnerjoe]

Just a thought but have you ever looked into using tundra upper and lower arms? I know they have the same upper and lower ball joints and correct me if I'm wrong but don't most long travel kits require use of tundra axles also since the are longer? If they work could save you/us a ton of money versus making all of them.

 

[steezemcqueen]

Just a thought but have you ever looked into using tundra upper and lower arms? I know they have the same upper and lower ball joints and correct me if I'm wrong but don't most long travel kits require use of tundra axles also since the are longer? If they work could save you/us a ton of money versus making all of them.

Tundra control arms are the same length as the 4runner/Taco ones. The frame of the tundra is wider which is why the CV's are longer.


If only we had a Toyota version of the Titan swap