Sniv's Custom Long Travel Build

[snivilous]

Yesterday I picked up some "street legal beadlocked" 17" rims with some balding 35" Toyo MTs for $340. All I was concerned with was lug pattern, turns out the hole in the middle of the rim isn't big enough to clear my hub caps :frusty: I would need some 1.25" or 1.5" spacers or do some mods to fit the rims... And spacers would make the back wider than I want, let alone with the LT that would make the front over 5" wider per side. Fail! At least I'm not out a lot of money... So much for doing the Tundra brakes this weekend since I'm still on my 15" rims for the time being...

 

[snivilous]

One last offroading trip...

Followed by washing and disassembly

I'm having issues with the lower A arm. It appears that the "nut" side of the alignment cam also has a sleeve that goes all the way through, and I can't hit the sleeve out with a hammer (even after heating everything with a torch) and I tried to turn one of the nut cams and it just sheared off... Unless I can figure out an easier way I'm probably just gonna drill the sleeve out or use a sawzall to cut the arm off.

And [MENTION=89531]Cartzo[/MENTION] undergoing the same treatment

 

[snivilous]

Finally got the LCA out! I spent awhile looking to see how other people did it and no one I found had them seized or stuck :noidea: A 3/4" drill bit was $20 to drill the sleeve out, my roommate with the Tacoma brought a sawzall but that was slow as hell and barely cutting and tricky to get in, so I resort to just slotting the bottom of the mount and dropping the A arm out through it. I'm gonna reinforce the mounts anyways and not be using cams (hopefully alignments will only need to be through the UCA) so I didn't feel bad about chopping it up :rofl:

This is a lower A arm in it's magnificent and ugly glory

And the lower A arm plate [MENTION=89531]Cartzo[/MENTION] cut for me lines up perfectly over the top of it. Hopefully we'll get out compound miter saw in the mail tomorrow so I can start cutting the tubing. The welder we had borrowed was given back, so I'm gonna have to figure out someway to get all the tubing to stick for alignment testing and holding until Cartzo can weld it up.

Speaking of which, the bushings fit PERFECTLY. The fit is snug, but not hard to get in and no slop

Passenger side is also completely torn down now. Had to do the same thing to the LCA by slotting the bottom to remove it.

I'm gonna go as far as I can without oxyacetylene, but it'll be a ***** to cut off the stock shock bucket and stock bump stops with a cut off wheel. The torch will probably be inevitable, but I can hopefully do everything except chopping the bump stops until then.

 

[shootmymime]

Still a ***** build here. Rofl!!!! Off to a good start!

 

[JBurt]

So I guess the "custom long travel build" started after 305 posts and 1 year, 1 month, and twenty days.

Sucks about the sleeves. I'm glad you finally get to start this project.

 

[snivilous]

The custom LT started last November when I started researching and designing it and then changed the thread name, don't be critical!

Nothing exciting, I forgot how much I hate grinding.

If I had the proper tools I could pump out everything in a weekend, as it is progress is slow. I have most of the tube cut and tacked for the LCA, I bought a $18 drill bit (WTF?!) for the LCA bolts and some Grade 8 hardware. I was debating Grade 5 or 8 since Grade 5 will stretch more and be able to take an impulse but since the bushings will absorb a lot of shock loading I said screw it and went with 8. As I said this whole thing has involved building up our shop in the new house, so I had to use cut off wheels to cut off the stock bump stops and most of the stock shock hoop which sucked ass (if only I had my dads shop and oxyacetylene!). I'm thinking I'll use the stock UCA mount since it's already there and will be a ***** to cut out with an angle grinder, as in the picture most of it is cut out so the new coilovers should have room and I'll probably just reinforce what's left. I need to weld in plate to where the stock bump stops were. And once I cut new LCA frame mounts and weld them in and get them drilled then I can mount the bushings and position the LCA and tack it in place. Extreme optimism is next weekend the truck being able to support its own weight but not really do much more, let alone be cleaned up and everything painted. We'll see, I finally have the tools to start moving along though!

 

[JBurt]

Oh I'm not trying to be critical. Just giving you a hard time. I'm really impressed with all you've gotten done. Keep up the good work.

 

[snivilous]

As usual my date planning sucks, I ordered springs. 16" x 600lb*in and a 6" x 500lb*in, I should of gone stiffer but that would of costed more than I wanted to spend on my tight budget...whatever, I can upgrade later once everything is working! I can't afford upper arm joints until I get paid (next week?). On the plus side [MENTION=89531]Cartzo[/MENTION] got his A arm cut out, and I got mine finished being cut and tacked and cut the uniball hole and it fits like a glove!

And I got my shirt on fire twice from grinding, that's a first :rockon:

 

[snivilous]

[MENTION=89531]Cartzo[/MENTION] brought the beast back welded up.

And these arrived:

Might have to buy the aluminum dual rate slider or paint it so it's more obvious and shnazzy

Frame needs more grinding, and the LCA needs shock mounts tacked in and the LCA frame mounts need to be cut and welded. Soon the spindle will get reinforced and modified to mount to the uniball upper and lowers. Stuff is starting to move at a more entertaining rate now :bigok:

 

[sportrunner2001]

Good work man! Im looking forward to seeing the rest!

 

[Menace Kustoms]

What size uniballs are those in the LCA? Also, are you going to be plating the arm on top of the square tubing?

 

[snivilous]

What size uniballs are those in the LCA? Also, are you going to be plating the arm on top of the square tubing?

I don't know how you would classify them, they have a 3/4" bore which some sites seem to claim is the uniball size, but the actual OD of the bearing is 1-3/8"... Regardless they are rated to 7,730lb axial loading which meets my factor of safeties and a 37,000lb radial load.

The plan for now is to not plate the top, I designed it so the stresses are fine without an upper plate and then I wouldn't have to worry about adding welds somehow on the inside of a fully boxed arm. I'm debating a plexiglass cover on the arm so the internals can be seen and maybe color the tubing differently so it's cool to see but that's up in the air, or I might just put a plate on top so I don't have to worry about washing out the arm from stuff piling up on the inside.
[MENTION=89531]Cartzo[/MENTION] (http://www.toyota-4runner.org/class...4runner-slow-moving-build-13.html#post1788034) A-arm will be partially plated on top so smaller walled tubing can be used to keep weight down, and then the upper plate will have cut outs to look sexy as well as be able to easily weld it to the tubing.

 

[Menace Kustoms]

Hmm, seems kinda small on the uniball side. It's an interesting design for the LCAs. They look very heavy. Also seems like a major place to catch moisture and debris and cause problems down the road. Props to you for doing the work.

 

[snivilous]

Hmm, seems kinda small on the uniball side. It's an interesting design for the LCAs. They look very heavy. Also seems like a major place to catch moisture and debris and cause problems down the road. Props to you for doing the work.

Most people run 1" uniballs, they aren't needed for my design though. I'm designing to race specs given to me by a guy who built some race trucks, and then have a FOS on top of that and the uniballs meet that spec so no point to go higher. And my A-arm is pretty heavy, it's all 3/16" wall. I'm not too worried though, it's my first stab at suspension design and they are meant to be beefy to take a beating and be tested. As for the moisture and debris, it could cause a problem, but not if I properly prime and paint the arms. After all your frame is hollow and catches years of mud and grime that can't be washed out, and that is a more crucial structure. We'll see, I plan to make a RevB build in the near future and sort out any kinks and do a large mass optimization to make my setup competitive (mass wise) with other super expensive aftermarket options.

 

[CenCalifoothill15]

LT getting closer!

keep it up bro-

""

 

[Troymclure]

[MENTION=89531]Cartzo[/MENTION] brought the beast back welded up.

Good work so far, but those arms look a little scary to me. Im not sure I would trust the tubing just being butt welded to the bushing sleeve like that and then have another tube just welded to that. I know you modeled them in CAD and did a finite element analysis on them, but I know that sometimes its hard to model the tubing to account for the fact you have to weld them. Just a thought, and good luck with the rest of the kit

 

[Menace Kustoms]

Most people run 1" uniballs, they aren't needed for my design though. I'm designing to race specs given to me by a guy who built some race trucks, and then have a FOS on top of that and the uniballs meet that spec so no point to go higher. And my A-arm is pretty heavy, it's all 3/16" wall. I'm not too worried though, it's my first stab at suspension design and they are meant to be beefy to take a beating and be tested. As for the moisture and debris, it could cause a problem, but not if I properly prime and paint the arms. After all your frame is hollow and catches years of mud and grime that can't be washed out, and that is a more crucial structure. We'll see, I plan to make a RevB build in the near future and sort out any kinks and do a large mass optimization to make my setup competitive (mass wise) with other super expensive aftermarket options.

Your frame is also significantly higher up than your LCA. I've lost count of the threads where guys have to cut stuff apart, yours included, due to rust. Also, the uniball also gives more travel/angle when it's a bigger diameter, there's a reason why all of the big manufactures (Total Chaos, Camburg) use 1" balls in their kits. As stated above, butt welding tubing to plate, especially really hot mig welding as it appears is a little worrisome. I've been in the off road racing world for a while (check out TSA Motorsports Class 7200), and there are lots of reasons guys build stuff the way they do, they've already broken stuff. I've watched guys attempt to build their own on TTORA.com. Like I said, props to doing the work yourself, it's better than most guys are capable of. Just trying to give you words of caution that come from years of experience.

 

[snivilous]

Good work so far, but those arms look a little scary to me. Im not sure I would trust the tubing just being butt welded to the bushing sleeve like that and then have another tube just welded to that. I know you modeled them in CAD and did a finite element analysis on them, but I know that sometimes its hard to model the tubing to account for the fact you have to weld them. Just a thought, and good luck with the rest of the kit

Thanks man, I completely agree that just because I did an FEA doesn't mean I'll get a solid correlation with the actual thing. Ideally I would like to do some tests on the arm to see how far off the FEA is, though that might be kind of hard when I would need to apply a 4000lb load to see a couple thousandths of deflection. In regards to the welds:

Your frame is also significantly higher up than your LCA. I've lost count of the threads where guys have to cut stuff apart, yours included, due to rust. Also, the uniball also gives more travel/angle when it's a bigger diameter, there's a reason why all of the big manufactures (Total Chaos, Camburg) use 1" balls in their kits. As stated above, butt welding tubing to plate, especially really hot mig welding as it appears is a little worrisome. I've been in the off road racing world for a while (check out TSA Motorsports Class 7200), and there are lots of reasons guys build stuff the way they do, they've already broken stuff. I've watched guys attempt to build their own on TTORA.com. Like I said, props to doing the work yourself, it's better than most guys are capable of. Just trying to give you words of caution that come from years of experience.

I appreciate any and all advice! I didn't mean to come off as a dick, this is my first stab into suspension design so anything helps. Next time I'll probably run a larger uniball for ease of welding and having some more material to grab. Yesterday I did a 2D sketch to make sure the uniballs had enough angle to work with the CV travel we recently measured (~18" just cycled, didn't try to turn it) and the upper A arm uniball binds about the time the CV maxes out and the lower A arm doesn't max out. That's with a 36 degree upper spacer and a 34 degree lower one, which on Poly the 1" uniball spacers have the same misalignment angles as the 3/4" spacers which is kinda odd...

I don't have a lot of experience outside of MIG or for welding in general besides parts I make, is there someway you suggest I could weld the bushing tube to the smaller tubing besides a butt/fillet weld? I'm not too worried about the smaller tube welded to the longer tube since the top of the arm will be in compression and then the plate will be taking all the tension which everything is fillet welded to. Likewise I'm not too worried about the bushing tube since Cartzo put down some good looking fillet welds and the force on each bushing tube is half of what the uniball will see (roughly). Mainly I'm worried about the uniball, though it's nicely welded and he was able to get some good penetration from using the thicker plate and tubing.

And to reiterate, any advice is more than appreciated it always helps to have people question what I'm doing and make me think about and write it down. At the end of the day I want everything to work and not die, and if that involves rebuilding and redesigning then so be it :thumb:

 

[D Farms]

Well you could tig weld it, but I think the more important thing would be temper the entire arm.http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tempering_(metallurgy)#Welded_steel

 

[Cartzo]

Well you could tig weld it, but I think the more important thing would be temper the entire arm.Tempering (metallurgy) - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

What good would tig welding do on 3/16" steel? Penetration is penetration.

Menace Kustoms what do you suggest for butt welds? I'm a Structural Steel Fabricator and back gouging is more than enough to provide adequate penetration on 1.5" thick beams let alone 3/16" tube.