Snorkel

Just cause something is readily available doesn't mean people are going to pay for it. If people aren't set on it 100%, I bet they would rather wait a bit longer and see if someone else does it better, than dropping the cash on something they only kinda like. Its good to have options. Also I'm sure people are iffy about the company. Are you going to buy a bicycle helmet from Reebok if Reebok decided to make helmets or are you going to buy one from a dedicated company such as Giro or Bell? Something to think about.

Now I do give you props for actually communicating with FTS & getting a few shipments in. A+++ to you for going above and beyond.

But for me 1. I'm not a huge fan of the design 2. I am a bit worried about the fiberglass. I wheel my rig and I wheel it hard. I've been in several situations where a snorkel would've come in handy. But just cause something is out, doesn't mean I'm going to drop cash on it. Price may be an issue for others, but the snorkel has been the one mod that I've always wanted to do, I'd pay $700 for one if it was done 100% right.

Maybe someone should make a new feeler thread for CBI, some people don't go through all the pages of the threads. I'm sure more people would be interested if they saw the list in the first post. Just my 2 cents.

*I haven't looked into shipping costs, but I was thinking of buying a fender and shipping it to Safari. That way they could get the mold down, without having the actual vehicle. Internals would work with the FJ or whatever.
 
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TOY2G said:
Yea....13. That's the magic number......:bash:

Nathan (CBI) is no idiot, these guys build wicked cool stuff (for profit).

I hope they make one, I will be number 14 to buy one. But you think they are going to ante up for 13 potential customers....? Do you think they will for 50?

It's mentality like this that make this a loosing fight. A snorkel hits the market for our trucks, but you don't want that one. You want CBI to make them for you and 12 other people because you cannot do math.
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Ummm... I thought we were all on the same team. Granted I can't say that I am one to promote our only current option. No doubt [MENTION=64685]TOY2G[/MENTION] has done way more than any of us could or would ever do to make this happen. No doubt that if the numbers don't work, the project won't work. No doubt that there is a functional option. No doubt that Nathan has no reason to do I if it isn't a profitable venture for CBI. But as you've also pointed out, there is no demand for a snorkel that isn't visually appealing. I have to admit that it looks a lot better on your rig than the initial presentation, and a coat of LinEx may make it even better... but it's still not doing it for me, but that's my personal opinion.

For me a snorkel serves three functions, cleaner & cooler air, aesthetics, and reduce chances of water ingestion, all in no particular order. The reality is that 99% of the time it serves as an aesthetic piece and those that use it for the other reasons probably wouldn't buy it for strictly functional purposes and also wouldn't likely be rocking a T4R, that is more of a Land Cruiser or Defender environment that have great and multiple offerings.

Again, I appreciate what you are doing to make this happen, please don't take our desire and intent to obtain a superior offering the wrong way.
 
adio3x said:
Just cause something is readily available doesn't mean people are going to pay for it. If people aren't set on it 100%, I bet they would rather wait a bit longer and see if someone else does it better, than dropping the cash on something they only kinda like. Its good to have options.

Now I do give you props for actually communicating with FTS & getting a few shipments in. A+++ to you for going above and beyond.

But for me 1. I'm not a huge fan of the design 2. I am a bit worried about the fiberglass. I wheel my rig and I wheel it hard. I've been in several situations where a snorkel would've come in handy. But just cause something is out, doesn't mean I'm going to drop cash on it. Price may be an issue for others, but the snorkel has been the one mod that I've always wanted to do, I'd pay $700 for one if it was done 100% right.

Maybe someone should make a new feeler thread for CBI, some people don't go through all the pages of the threads. I'm sure more people would be interested if they saw the list in the first post. Just my 2 cents.
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You are right man, I agree with you. I was holding out for the Airflow one for a while. I still think at some point they may end up making one. As far as CBI, they never made claim that they we planning to do one.... Just a single member said "I spoke to CBI and they might be willing to try something".

If we really want something different that FTS (AirFlow America snorkel is identical design) we may be screwed.

To be honest, I did not want to buy the FTS snorkel, for a few reasons, but the main one being price. But then if you read back through this thread 22 people said they would buy the airflow snorkel (looks like the FTS and is glass)then 5 people said they would be in for the FTS (but the price was too high), then lastly 13 people said they would take the mythical CBI snorkel (that CBI has never even publicly said they were even mildly interested in). I guess I'm being a little b*#€£ because I found a solution for the 22+5 people and got the Airflow Style FTS snorkel to under $400 shipped (no Benifits to me except I get my second snorkel for $200 less) and now it's not good enough, people think a company that does not make snorkels or have ever claimed to make a snorkel will be a better bet.

At the end of the day, it's not that big of deal, I was just in one of those rant kind of moods. Fact is, I can afford to buy a second snorkel for myself and really that's all that affects me. Truth be told, I know my ABS snorkels for FJ can handle rocks, and low hanging branches, I don't think the glass is as sound of a product, but it's here and at the moment is the only option. With the 4runner and GX going away after 2016 I suspect the aftermarket support will have a decline in the coming years anyway, so it may be a get one while the getting is good sort of thing.

Thanks for the reply [MENTION=50186]adio3x[/MENTION] sorry for the whining.
 
WarnerD9 said:
Ummm... I thought we were all on the same team. Granted I can't say that I am one to promote our only current option. No doubt [MENTION=64685]TOY2G[/MENTION] has done way more than any of us could or would ever do to make this happen. No doubt that if the numbers don't work, the project won't work. No doubt that there is a functional option. No doubt that Nathan has no reason to do I if it isn't a profitable venture for CBI. But as you've also pointed out, there is no demand for a snorkel that isn't visually appealing. I have to admit that it looks a lot better on your rig than the initial presentation, and a coat of LinEx may make it even better... but it's still not doing it for me, but that's my personal opinion.

For me a snorkel serves three functions, cleaner & cooler air, aesthetics, and reduce chances of water ingestion, all in no particular order. The reality is that 99% of the time it serves as an aesthetic piece and those that use it for the other reasons probably wouldn't buy it for strictly functional purposes and also wouldn't likely be rocking a T4R, that is more of a Land Cruiser or Defender environment that have great and multiple offerings.

Again, I appreciate what you are doing to make this happen, please don't take our desire and intent to obtain a superior offering the wrong way.
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I get it man, I really do, snorkels in general are ugly turds on a otherwise clean looking vehicle. And I have sold over 200 FJ snorkels and I bet 2-5 of them have ever been used in water.

If you want a shorter snorkel body (like the Prado 150) it requires more R&D and more material and dreadfully more molds. It's just more cost effective to make the snorkel come straight out of the air box.


CBI has never publicly said they were even considering getting into the snorkel market, and what they may have told you in passing is likely lip service. That leaves AirFlow America and FTS both making identical snorkels, and FTS went to market first. You better believer AirFlow is reading threads like this one and patting themselves on the back for not investing any further in this snorkel.

As far as Safari goes, they have alway made snorkels for function, and no snorkel has ever looked particularly good, but in other countries (like Australia) where sand storms, and water crossing are common, function is the only purpose for a snorkel. If Safari reads this thread, they will without a doubt laugh at Americans once again because we want a pretty snorkel and do not care if it's that functional :der:

FWIW, we are on the same team, I was just pointing out that the 4runner snorkel market is going to be pretty limited, so now there is one player, and Airflow makes 2..... If CBI and or Safari get in on it, that. 3-4 manufactures vining for a piece of the pie... That does not leave much room for market share per manufacture. Note: Ironman Off-road has also told me directly they were working on one before they left the North American market.

Thanks for the reply, and sorry to sound so abrasive on the topic, but running the two companies that I do, I see this kind of customer divide send new products to the scrap heap (like the Rocktek 4th gen rear bumper, or the direct drive tire changer) before it even makes it to production. We have 20-50 snorkel customers, 10% want function, 50% want pretty, and 40% wants both. What company in there right mind is going to jump into that pool both feet first?

To protect myself and my company, I'm bowing out of this snorkel thing before I grow grey hair.
 
4ShoreRunner said:
All I was doing was trying to provide the correct user name as it looks like folks have unsuccessfully attempted to tag him earlier in this thread.

Jesus...
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If you read this entire thread, you will see that CBI never said they wanted to start a new snorkel business, (they have not even posted) it was just one member that said something about CBI in passing. Tagging Nathan to try to get CBI to build a snorkel they never asked to be part of is pretty silly.

However, I know for some reason this thread is giving me rage issues, and I keep coming off like a tool, it's not my intent, I am just trying to get the facts out and people keep trying to tag CBI like they want in on this.

My apologies. BTW, I go by Nathan, not Jesus.
 
TOY2G said:
If you read this entire thread, you will see that CBI never said they wanted to start a new snorkel business, (they have not even posted) it was just one member that said something about CBI in passing. Tagging Nathan to try to get CBI to build a snorkel they never asked to be part of is pretty silly.

However, I know for some reason this thread is giving me rage issues, and I keep coming off like a tool, it's not my intent, I am just trying to get the facts out and people keep trying to tag CBI like they want in on this.

My apologies. BTW, I go by Nathan, not Jesus.
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Don't try and tell me what I did or didn't read, Nathan. I read the thread. I read several incorrect attempts at trying to tag CBI, so I provided the correct tag.

Hopefully for your sake others won't take the time to read this entire thread.
 
4ShoreRunner said:
Don't try and tell me what I did or didn't read, Nathan. I read the thread. I read several incorrect attempts at trying to tag CBI, so I provided the correct tag.

Hopefully for your sake others won't take the time to read this entire thread.
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I did not mean to wind you so tight.... If you read the whole thread then you know there is no need to keep trying to tag CBI.

And, not sure what you mean by for "my sake". But you don't see me deleting my posts do you? I got a little brash at times, and I did my best to explain myself. I tried to make good on a 8 month old promise, something nobody else has done I regards to the 5th gen snorkel, for my efforts I got crap like this from you. It did rub me the wrong way, and I walked away for a while and realized it's just the internet, and it changes nothing.

8 months ago I said I was trying to work something out to make these avail to us at a reasonable cost. Now that I have done it, it's not good enough.

I did what I thought I was able to do, importing stuff is something I do on a weekly basis anyway so I was trying to help, and I responded (admittedly wit some contempt) to everyone (majority) negative response.

Again, my apologies if my ranting offended you, and I think I like it better when you call me Jesus, the Nathan in italics really makes it feel like you are my mother.
 
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So, Nathan is correct in that CBI never expressed any formal commitment or significant interest in mass producing snorkels for 5th gens. I did tag them, hoping for a positive response, and trying to get other members interested to try to motivate CBI to produce something. I had spoken with him in several instances about installing a custom snorkel and we just haven't gotten around to it. He wasn't opposed to the idea and I figured that if it worked for me it might work for others, if not at least we tried.

There are no guarantees as to how it will turn out but I'll put my money and vehicle with CBI over anyone else. I agree that it is unrealistic to assume that it will be just like a Safari ABS snorkel. I agree with you that the standard means of production and methods used prohibit production. I don't think that anyone ever disagreed with you on that or that you weren't the expert.

If this is going to fly we need to think outside the box and do something different. The people have voted regarding the fiberglass option, manufacturers have voted regarding ABS, therefore it limey won't be made from either material. My guess is that it will be a combo of high grade flex pipe/hose, some ABS, and some good old sheet metal or stainless.

I'll get with CBI, volunteer my rig and see what we can come up with as my own personal custom project not intended for production. If it's not too difficult to reproduce then great. If it is, that will suck. It may not even work for me and I may end up taking it off and going back to factory. But I'm going to try.
 
I'm all for the FTS snorkel. Personally, I think it looks great. For those that think it's too shiny a couple weeks of it being installed will take care of that. As for it being fiberglass, if you are concerned about how rugged it will be why not get it Line-X? That will certainly improve it's impact resistance.

TOY2G, if you do a group buy I'm definitely in. I see this snorkel as the only option I'm likely to have for some time to come, if not ever. I for one appreciate your efforts in trying to provide a solution to the 5th Gen community.
 
WarnerD9 said:
So, Nathan is correct in that CBI never expressed any formal commitment or significant interest in mass producing snorkels for 5th gens. I did tag them, hoping for a positive response, and trying to get other members interested to try to motivate CBI to produce something. I had spoken with him in several instances about installing a custom snorkel and we just haven't gotten around to it. He wasn't opposed to the idea and I figured that if it worked for me it might work for others, if not at least we tried.

There are no guarantees as to how it will turn out but I'll put my money and vehicle with CBI over anyone else. I agree that it is unrealistic to assume that it will be just like a Safari ABS snorkel. I agree with you that the standard means of production and methods used prohibit production. I don't think that anyone ever disagreed with you on that or that you weren't the expert.

If this is going to fly we need to think outside the box and do something different. The people have voted regarding the fiberglass option, manufacturers have voted regarding ABS, therefore it limey won't be made from either material. My guess is that it will be a combo of high grade flex pipe/hose, some ABS, and some good old sheet metal or stainless.

I'll get with CBI, volunteer my rig and see what we can come up with as my own personal custom project not intended for production. If it's not too difficult to reproduce then great. If it is, that will suck. It may not even work for me and I may end up taking it off and going back to factory. But I'm going to try.
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I'm not going to lie, if it weren't for the fact I have been close friends with the owner of Rocktek for 10 years, all my stuff would be CBI. I would be down with a sheet metal snorkel if they decide to build one. Honestly that never crossed my mind.

Thanks for chiming in, I really appreciate you following up.
 
Narkhelek said:
I'm all for the FTS snorkel. Personally, I think it looks great. For those that think it's too shiny a couple weeks of it being installed will take care of that. As for it being fiberglass, if you are concerned about how rugged it will be why not get it Line-X? That will certainly improve it's impact resistance.

TOY2G, if you do a group buy I'm definitely in. I see this snorkel as the only option I'm likely to have for some time to come, if not ever. I for one appreciate your efforts in trying to provide a solution to the 5th Gen community.
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Thanks man, I think the line-x is a great idea.

FTS won't give me a break on price unless we buy 10, I can get a little break in shipping because they will go to Shanghai and come in on one of my other containers. If we get 8 more people that feel the way you do, we might all get a snorkel at a reasonable price.
 
I really don't get all of the shiny comments. When I install something new on my truck I'm happy if after a few weeks it doesn't show pin striping from more than 5 feet away or start to develop rust. Keeping stuff on my rig looking shiny and new tend to be the least of my worries. :)
 
[MENTION=64685]TOY2G[/MENTION] I think everyone appreciates the work you've put in, however there is no accounting for personal taste. don't sweat the small stuff man.
 
Jono.ful said:
[MENTION=64685]TOY2G[/MENTION] I think everyone appreciates the work you've put in, however there is no accounting for personal taste. don't sweat the small stuff man.
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I agree and FWIW [MENTION=64685]TOY2G[/MENTION] / Nathan / Jesus, (whichever you prefer) you need to change you sig of your truck from the otherside so everytime you post in the Snorkel thread you can rub it in that you have one and noone else does....neener neener

TXAG
 
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