Snow chains??

[Wolf_Girl]

Hey everybody! Yes tis a newb question, however living in NM I never needed chains. WV is a different story, coming into winter, the dirt road to my place is steep in places and people slide into the trees/ravine all the time.. but they also don't have a 4runner
But for those times of icy, slick, below 10 degree conditions...
Are chains all the same? The price range is freakin ridiculous! I mean $50 for a pair up to over $200??
So my question is... does it matter what brand/type of chains I get? I'm going to get a set of 4, so I want it to be worth it but also not breakin' the budget.
Any other info on chains and how to keep them in good shape would be appreciated, also!
Thanks ^_^

 

[85_4Runner]

You might want to check out RUD Grip 4x4 chains. I don't have experience using them myself, but Bill Burke demonstrated them in his Getting Unstuck video and they seem like the business.

You can read more about them here:

http://www.amazon.com/RUD-Chains-Pickup-Trucks-Vehicles/dp/B00HKV17IG

 

[nevada]

Hey everybody! Yes tis a newb question, however living in NM I never needed chains. WV is a different story, coming into winter, the dirt road to my place is steep in places and people slide into the trees/ravine all the time.. but they also don't have a 4runner
But for those times of icy, slick, below 10 degree conditions...
Are chains all the same? The price range is freakin ridiculous! I mean $50 for a pair up to over $200??
So my question is... does it matter what brand/type of chains I get? I'm going to get a set of 4, so I want it to be worth it but also not breakin' the budget.
Any other info on chains and how to keep them in good shape would be appreciated, also!
Thanks ^_^

I expect that some cheap cable "chains" would work out nicely. they really should only be used when the conditions are very bad. ICE mostly.

cables wont last as long as chains, but I expect they wont be seeing a ton of use. a good set of cables, with minimal use could last many years.

im not sure how long, or steep the road you are referring to is, but just chaining up the front for THAT trip would likely get you safely down the road, and save a bunch of time/hassle.

 

[RiFF RaFF]

Hey everybody! Yes tis a newb question, however living in NM I never needed chains. WV is a different story, coming into winter, the dirt road to my place is steep in places and people slide into the trees/ravine all the time.. but they also don't have a 4runner
But for those times of icy, slick, below 10 degree conditions...
Are chains all the same? The price range is freakin ridiculous! I mean $50 for a pair up to over $200??
So my question is... does it matter what brand/type of chains I get? I'm going to get a set of 4, so I want it to be worth it but also not breakin' the budget.
Any other info on chains and how to keep them in good shape would be appreciated, also!
Thanks ^_^

Here's your average snowfall City of Spencer, WV - Demographics

I've lived here since 2000, and have driven in everything - everywhere. Including Snowshoe WV, and Canaan Valley during the worst conditions to go snow skiing. I have never used chains/cables, but I have run BFG All Terrain tires, and they work GREAT in all weather conditions.

Chains --- :50cal: Blech!

 

[Freak-T158]

Depending where you're at and how bad chains, cables, or studded tires can be required. I've never used cables. I have had to use chains before. I normally get the cheap Wal-Mart ones and I've had them last a long time. I recommend the rubber chain tighteners as they help a lot. Always felt it's best to have them and not need them then need them and not have them.

Some people have a set of winner tires they put on with studs. Never had that much $. Studs are nice. Had them on a car when I was stationed in AK. Not as good as chains though.

Keep in mind you can only do 25-30 mph with chains on. You can try to go faster but you risk them coming off and destroying stuff. Practice putting them on before it snows. Keep a pair of gloves with the chains. Ice, metal, and skin don’t mix well when it's cold

 

[RAD4Runner]

... they really should only be used when the conditions are very bad. ICE mostly.
... but just chaining up the front for THAT trip would likely get you safely down the road, and save a bunch of time/hassle.

Depending where you're at and how bad chains, cables, or studded tires can be required.
...I recommend the rubber chain tighteners as they help a lot. Always felt it's best to have them and not need them then need them and not have them.

Some people have a set of winner tires they put on with studs. ...
...Keep a pair of gloves with the chains. Ice, metal, and skin don’t mix well when it's cold

We don't see much ice here on California mountains but I think that's the only time you'd really need chains/cables IF you have 4WD and All-terrain / MT tires.

Agree with cable/chain on front ONLY when on 4WD. This way you have improved traction on your drive and steering wheels. I suspect there would be too much stress on transmission/wheels if all 4 tires have chains.
Security Chain Company is my favorite manufacturer. Cables are easy to install and already come with tighteners.

Lots of good used ones on craig's list. I always have my cables in the truck during winter months so I won't forget them when I go to the mountains. Sucks to be turned around when not prepared - or be ripped off by rentals.

Make sure you practice installing in the warmth and comfort of your garage; I once watched installation instructions for my friend's un-used chin melt under falling snow in Big Bear. Never got that chain installed - LOL!

 

[WCVanHorne]

Well up north here I swear by studded winter/snow tires. Have Nokian Hakka 7 SUV's on my 4Runner and the newer and better Hakka 8's on my Yaris. From snow, to 25 below polished hard pack, to freezing rain; never been let down.

This is my last season for the older 7's and in fall 2016 on to these which I would recommend (or maybe they release 9's):

Nokian Hakkapeliitta 8 SUV

There are almost no conceivable conditions where you would need to chain these up on a 4WD vehicle. Perhaps a mountain pass with a foot of heavy wet snow or if you decide to put a plow blade on the front of your rig.

BTW looked it up and in WV you can have studded tires on between November 1st and April 15th.

Last note is that A/T or M/T tires are *not* remotely close to winter tires for grip (studded or not) under most conditions other than deep snow. You see 4WD trucks, with fancy, "aggressive" off road style A/T-M/T tires in the ditch all the time in winter up here. Black ice or freezing cold demands a real winter tire, not rock hard lugs the size of your fist.

 

[WCVanHorne]

Agree with cable/chain on front ONLY when on 4WD. This way you have improved traction on your drive and steering wheels. I suspect there would be too much stress on transmission/wheels if all 4 tires have chains.

If you are going to chain or cable 4WD do them all. That way you don't have the rear catching up with the front (front only) or have to sacrifice braking and steering (rear only). If you only have one set I would do the rear for stability. Same reason you always put newer tires on the rear if you only replace two for some reason.

If you have chains on you are in such low traction conditions and going at such low speeds you should not be stressing anything too much.

 

[nevada]

If you are going to chain or cable 4WD do them all. That way you don't have the rear catching up with the front (front only) or have to sacrifice braking and steering (rear only). If you only have one set I would do the rear for stability. Same reason you always put newer tires on the rear if you only replace two for some reason.

If you have chains on you are in such low traction conditions and going at such low speeds you should not be stressing anything too much.

I disagree. also, I always put the newer tires on the front. being able to stop and steer are pretty important.

 

[85_4Runner]

I disagree. also, I always put the newer tires on the front. being able to stop and steer are pretty important.

I certainly don't disagree with that, but nevertheless, if you can only replace two tires, the recommendation is to put the new ones at the rear. Keeping the rear end of the vehicle, at the rear, is really important too. Best just to replace all four tires if they're worn out.

When Buying Two Tires Instead of Four, Place the Two New Tires on the Rear - Tire Safety Group

 

[OkieOverlander]

I've only heard great things about these. The videos on the site prove it. Credit to the 4x4Podcast for getting the news out about these:

http://www.flextrax.com

 

[RAD4Runner]

... You see 4WD trucks, with fancy, "aggressive" off road style A/T-M/T tires in the ditch all the time in winter up here. Black ice or freezing cold demands a real winter tire, not rock hard lugs the size of your fist.

That's what I said.
To re-phrase:
When there is no ice on the road, Highway patrol allow 4WD with A/T or M/T.
When there is ice (underlined in original post), chains are required because rubber, no matter the lugs does not bite into ice.

We don't see much ice here on California mountains but I think that's the only time (when you have ice on road) you'd really need chains/cables IF you have 4WD and All-terrain / MT tires.

 

[theking11863]

Well, I don't know how good they'd work (I never got to try mine out) but I'd also think about looking into studded snow tires. Depending on how you use them they could be easier then chains and you don't have to worry about them falling off when you reverse. Just another option. Hope it helps!

 

[airdreams1]

I run all 4 studded tires..... with them, its rare to ever need chains... But then I have driven in snow/ice all my life.

like mentioned.... usualy just when highway patrol has "chains required"
most times its just "traction devices required" & studs work awesome.

just cant be an idiot like 50+% of the people who think 4 wheel drive & the ability to "go" means they can drive like the road is dry.... I see them people off the road, slamed into things, upside down, etc... & I just laugh!

example: I was in my 89 4x4 extended cab (4 sand bags in the rear) 4 studded tires & driving from seattle to boise durring 1 of the biggest snow storm's to hit in years. I never went over 45 mph the whole way... I passed over 2 mountain ranges.... & saw over 25 4x4 trucks & Suv's off the road or on there roofs, etc... I never chained up or even slid....
@ 1 point they closed the blues pass, but I made it by just before they closed it. (when I stopped to get gas, they asked where I came from. LOL & state patrole was blocking the on ramp.... when they got a call, I just went on my way.)

It took nearly 20 hrs to make the trip! (normaly around an 8hr trip)

 

[nevada]

I certainly don't disagree with that, but nevertheless, if you can only replace two tires, the recommendation is to put the new ones at the rear. Keeping the rear end of the vehicle, at the rear, is really important too. Best just to replace all four tires if they're worn out.

When Buying Two Tires Instead of Four, Place the Two New Tires on the Rear - Tire Safety Group

how many years before they change their minds again? it used to be recommended they go on the front.

either way, I stand by what I said, with the limited information given. chains on the front only, will likely be just fine, and save a bunch of time. if its just a small section of road that they are needed, its likely also to be slow going.

as it is, 35mph would be FAST while running chains. if you are going fast enough while running chains, that you risk swinging the rear end around due to not having chains on the back, YOU ARE GOING TOO FAST.

 

[WCVanHorne]

I disagree. also, I always put the newer tires on the front. being able to stop and steer are pretty important.

I'm going to assume you don't disagree the ideal is 4 chains, 4 new tires, etc. I assume you mean you would chain the front. I would still maintain that, if for some reason you can only do 2, the rear is generally preferable for stability under braking. AFAIK tire shops will refuse to mount 2 new on the front. I wouldn't even want to think of what it would be like going down hill with little or no traction on the back.

 

[WCVanHorne]

That's what I said.
To re-phrase:
When there is no ice on the road, Highway patrol allow 4WD with A/T or M/T.
When there is ice (underlined in original post), chains are required because rubber, no matter the lugs does not bite into ice.

I think my point was that A/T or M/T tires are poor choices for winter driving period. They lack the softer rubber for good grip in cold and at least marginal grip on ice, little or no siping, reduced contact area, etc. They are basically a joke for the mixed and rapidly changing conditions (sometimes over literally a few blocks) that make up winter. You can go from 10 inches of snow and ruts on a side street to a polished intersection around the corner. You can hit a patch of black ice on the highway any time. Freezing rain can turn to heavy snow over a few hours but with the ice just under a few inches. etc.

 

[RAD4Runner]

I think my point was that A/T or M/T .

That's why I said:
"When there is ice on the road, traction devices are required."

And I also said:
"When there is ice (underlined in original post), chains are required because rubber, no matter the lugs does not bite into ice."?

How many words do I need to say so it is clear that I agree with you


- LOL!

 

[WCVanHorne]

Although we may be violently agreeing. eace: I think there is one important subtlety here that is my point.

Forget all talk of chains and studs for a moment. As winter tires, summer AT/MT tires generally bad. They are made for off road durability and grip in loose material, with massive lugs and spaces that clear easily. E.G:



This means in most winter conditions, except perhaps a heavy snowfall with no ice or hardpack underneath, they tend to suck:

-The rubber is hard in low temperatures since they are generally made for durability, thus reducing grip on all surfaces including ice and causing the tire to conform less reducing contact area;

-The large lug spaces further reduce contact area on surfaces from ice to dry (but possibly 25 below) pavement; and

-There is generally little to no siping that is critical for grip on many hard surfaces, particularly icy or wet ones.

Here is a proper non-studded winter tire for comparison:



Note the large amount of siping, greater contact areas, and (what you can't see) the softer/low temperature rubber compounds.

I am trying to get across that for broad winter use you don't want MT/AT tires at all. The ability to stop and chain them up is moot. You aren't going to stop and chain up except for the very odd event. You need proper tires all the time because there is often ice and hardpack everywhere and/or anytime. Even with out studs proper winter tires have far superior grip on ice without having to break out the chains. Leave the MT/AT stuff for playing around off road in the summer.

Now apologies if you also agree completely with this. It just seemed to me you were suggesting that AT/MT tires with chains in the back seat were a viable option for anywhere with actual winter.

 

[RAD4Runner]

Yep, got your point, and thanks
We do not get real winters here in So Cal, so I was only referring to times when there's snow on mountain roads and Hwy Patrol allow 4WD without chains to proceed.

Also agree with the studded tires. If we had real winters here, I would surely prefer to just have the studded ones throughout the winter months. I remember one time I was in L.A. when there was some sort of competitions among schools nationwide, and I saw an SUV from Colorado (IIRC) driving around Sunny L.A. with studded tires.

I noticed that the Wrangler Duratracs are studdable. Would be nice to have the studs on mountain roads.