some camping questions????

[ddnww]

Im planning a camping trip in the near future, and have some questions that Im hoping some of you can chime in on. Im definately not new to camping, but i havent camped in a remote dangerous area in a long time. Mostly overnighters at the lake or close to civilization. This will be our first big rodeo in the t4r and with my 11 year old son.

Im just kind of nervous this being our first extended stay deep in the forest with my wife and son. Looking for safety tips, must bring items etc. Keep in mind im not a millionaire.

The place we're going is my favorite camping place i have been to, and i havent been there in about 12 years. It is gorgeous and some of the amenities of the trip include:

7000ft elevation
60 - 80 degree weather
200ft water fall
creek with rainbow trout
mountain cliff indian ruins
peaks where you can see all the major mountain ranges in AZ
2 mile hike to canyon with 800-1000ft sheer cliffs(90 degree drop offs)
beautiful forest trees etc

Along the hike to the canyon and cliffs, the trail gets a little dangerous. There are areas near the canyon where the canyon is next to the trail and one slip can potentialy be disasterous. Im wondering if i should tandem a rope to my son to be extra safe or am i being too overly cautious and protective.

Im trying to keep the items im taking to a minimum or compact in size. Has anyone used any pocket size camping gear before? I was looking at the pocket saw and was wondering if stuff like that really works.

Considering the temperature, ice wont last too long. This will be a 3 -4 day trip. I was wondering the best method of keeping things cold without buying a camping fridge or anything like that. Maybe dry ice? Hows that work?

What foods do you guys take? planning on fishing for dinner, but still need some steak etc. Also some dry foods, canned goods and what not.

Any tips on safety, suggestions for fun around the camp or things to do , items that come in handy etc etc would be appreciated. Or "dont forget to" do this or that also.

Sorry my post is kind of scatter brained and what not.

Trying to make this a great , unforgetable camping trip and want to make the most out of it.

THanks for any help.

 

[Quatre Coureur]

For keeping things cold, what I do is freeze items solid before hand. Steaks, chicken, brats, chops, whatever, freeze'em before. They'll help keep other items cold like ur eggs, butter,milk. I have a Coleman Extreme ice chest and it really does the job. For a saw I use a bowsaw with about a 2' blade. They're narrow and light and don't take up much space. As far as tethering ur boy, why not? Especially in the tricky sections. Better to be safe than sorry. An accident at those heights is fatal. You would never forgive yourself if something happened that could've been easily prevented. Your boy may not like it but ur the dad. He doesn't get a choice. Simple as that. Also dont tie yourselves together. No sense taking him with u if ur the one who slips. I'm sure u will get a lot of good advice. Be safe and post lots of pics.

 

[iBison]

You dont mention where you are going so we don't know if it is a bear or mountain lion active area.

Freezing things as was mentioned is a good idea. Dry ice can work, but anything that is resting on it will freeze, pop, ice cream bars, etc. You'll probably get two to three days if it's in a cooler and you have enough.

There are tons of things you can take that don't require cooling. Your son might get a kick out of making some backpacker meals. Read some reviews online some are good, some suck. They say eggs will keep for a month or longer if they are fresh, unwashed and unrefrigerated, oatmeal, beef jerkey, dry cured bacon, canned tuna, etc, etc, etc. A jetboil stove boils water super fast so you can do oatmeal, ramen, hot tea/cider and other things.

You could take a separate cooler with ice, say frozen 2 liters or pack it real tight, keep it in the shade and don't open it. It may outlast the main coolrs ice. You may want to try out at home first.

If you tether your son, make sure that if he slips his fall can't pull you down too, a real possibility. If you are concerned about the safety of the hike it would be best to find a different trail. And take a first aid kit.

check these links camping food that doesnt need to be unrefrigerated

 

[MyHigh]

Like mentioned above first aid kit is a must. As far as the hiking trail, your boy is 11 he's old enough to understand that during a certain point on the trail he needs to be extra careful, I'm not a fan of roping together while on trails. When ice climbing it's understandable however while hiking it's just not ideal in my mind, but that's completely up to you. Maybe a helmet for the boy too?

Coming from a S&R understanding I can think of a few preventable measures to take. First, always let someone know where you are going and when you will be back. Second, get aluminum foil and take footprint outlines, just lay it on a flat surface and step on it with the shoes you will be wearing. Third, get an article of clothing, well worn! Seal said article of clothing up in a ziplock bag, this gives a good strong scent for the dogs if need be. Fourth, I'm not a fan of fanny packs but at the very least each member should have that filled with basic survival gear such as whistle, mirror, flashlight, fire starter, compass. Fifth, have a blast! Be protective of your family but don't be a helicopter, it will stress you out and when stressed poor decisions are made.

If you leave your camp for a day hike, be sure to leave the foil, clothing with scent and a note of your plans for the day at your base camp or in your vehicle a picture wouldn't hurt either. Trail mix is a good "trail" food to take, pound for pound it provides the best amount of calories "fuel" while hiking.
Water, water, water, water you can never have to much of the stuff!

Last but not least take a camera, and use it your boy will look back upon those pictures and remember what a great dad he has!

 

[KidVermicious]

Prep your meals beforehand, so that all you have to do is heat them up and eat - it makes cooking and cleanup in camp an afterthought. Freeze them before like mentioned, it'll make your ice last longer. Other things you can do to maximize your ice - 1) Precool the cooler. Throw a sacrificial bag of ice in there the night before you leave. A huge amount of icemelt happens in the first several hours as your ice brings the cooler down to temp. The sacrificial bag of ice will buy you an extra day of ice in the field. 2) Dry ice in the bottom of the prefrozen cooler, then bagged ice over that. The dry ice will keep the tempurature lower, and as the bagged ice melts anyway the meltwater will be refrozen by the dry ice. The dry ice won't last the entire trip, but it'll definitely extend the life of the bagged ice. 3) As mentioned, freeze everything you can beforehand. Frozen food will keep longer (and keep your ice longer) than unfrozen food. 4) If you have any empty space in the cooler at the start of the trip, fill it with frozen bottled water. 5) Keep the cooler shut and in the shade. Don't keep your drinks in the cooler or it'll be open all the time - consider one of those 12v thermoelectric cooler thingies to keep drinks cool, or leave them in the creek if you have running water nearby. If the only time you open the cooler is to get meals out and then close it immediately, you'll near double the lifespan of your ice. Keeping it in the shade is critical too, and if you're really feeling jiggy, wrap the cooler in a thermal blanket or shiny tarp. With the above techniques, I can make 2 bags of ice and a small chunk of dry ice last six days in a $50 coleman cooler.

Dry foods, canned goods, all good ideas to keep the amount of food that needs cooled to a minimum. Snag your condiments from the 7-11 hot dog counter - mayo, mustard, relish, hot sauce, all in convenient use packages that don't need fridged. I'm a big fan of pepperoni and summer sausage for lunch, with crackers and fruit. If you're not a sausage person, a foil packet of tunafish with some of that mayo and relish goes great on a Ritz cracker. Anything in a can (chili, soup, baked beans, ravioli, etc) can be heated right over the coals, making cleanup supereasy. An aluminum pan-grabber makes getting the hot cans out of the fire easy. Dehydrated mashed potatoes (I like The Idahoan brand) and boxes of flavored easy rice are both supereasy sources of carbs that go well with your protein of choice. Breakfasts can be bagels toasted over the fire with a bowl of instant oatmeal or a granola bar and some dehydrated milk - no cooler cracking required. If you don't have one, get yourself a couple of cast iron pie irons - they make cooking over the fire a breeze, and you can make all kinds of numminess with them. Midnight grilled cheese is my favorite. Don't neglect the freeze-dried backpacking meals - Mountainhouse is my favorite because it's good calorie bang for the buck, but there's definitely other options out there. Just google "freezedried meals", most can be ordered online. Even when you're carcamping, freezedried stuff makes a great supplement to a complete meal.

Some good advice upthread, too - if you're sketched about taking your boy on a particular trail, don't use that trail. Trying to rope up without an understanding about how to safely use ropes could be disastrous. Check with the land management agency for that area about bear activity - they might require bear-proof food boxes and bear bags. Make sure somebody knows where you are and when you're due back, and if you have cell coverage nearby, use it.

As far as having your kid in the wilderness, it's your call how much you want to do because the safer you make it, the less of a growing experience it is for him. I've been taking my boy out with me since he was 5 (he's 8 now) - he carries a whistle, he knows if he gets lost to sit his ass down and blow that whistle and wait for me. He's learning to manage his own hydration but he still needs reminders, and I definitely still stay on him to wear sunscreen and bugblock because he's as riddled with ADD as I am and will forget. A little fannypack for your boy with snacks is a great idea because a boy in the wild will burn mad calories - he'll be hungry all the time but he might not slow down enough to notice it, so keep him fueled.

Have fun!

 

[wallytoo]

i'm not a fan of "tethering" to someone, even if it's your kid. if you aren't comfortable with him hiking it, you need to hike with him on different trails until he demonstrates to you that he'll be capable of hiking that trail. you don't start with the most dangerous. you start with places where the kids can choose a more difficult route if they are comfortable with it, but where there are alternatives.

i started my kids out on relatively short easy hikes, and progressed to short more difficult hikes, or hikes that had short, but technically challenging, difficult sections.

on one of the first four-thousand footers we tried in the white mountains, we turned back after it was apparent they were too young for the technical sections the trail demanded, and we came back the next day for a different route up. i had them climbing a steep, wet section above me. when the youngest was sliding down the face, i grabbed him as he went by. that was the point we turned around.

that was years ago; they're both in high school now, and taller than me.

 

[Clone of the Mean]

Plan on no fires. No shooting guns, or driving off road after 9 am. Forest officials discovered that a trucks catalytic convertor sparked the Jack wildfire outside of HappyJack yesterday.

I think it's Stage II restrictions. Look it up on INCIweb.com or SWCC.com

BTW, some great tips. Those extreme coolers aren't worth a sh*t in Arizona…..

 

[ddnww]

[MENTION=84642]Quatre Coureur[/MENTION] thanks for the great advice on keeping stuff cold. What do you suggest if i dont tie to my son.
[MENTION=91230]iBison[/MENTION] this is my favorite camping spot, and i really dont wanna give it up lol. But im sure once i post pics, someone in AZ will know the spot. I will tell you where its at after the trip. It is bear, mountain lion, and javelina country. Thanks for the great advice on dry and cold food. Open to suggestions on how to tether without risking both our lives. There is no other trail to our desitination from our camp site. I do have a good first aid kit.
[MENTION=88597]MyHigh[/MENTION] Those are some awesome ideas you posted, i had of course already planned to give detailed info of our plans and location to close family, but i will be adding some of your input as well.
[MENTION=49649]KidVermicious[/MENTION] WOw, some great advice on food and cooling, i have already spoke with ranger stations about our trip and bear, mountain lion activity and all's clear. I agree with you on the more you hover over the kid the less they learn, he has his own backback with lots of safety and self survival gear and we do some survival training pretty often.
[MENTION=95305]wallytoo[/MENTION] thanks you for the advice, sounds like you and your kiddos have done some good hiking
[MENTION=69873]Clone of the Mean[/MENTION]

thanks for the advice, im planning on waiting till we get the monsoon rains and these fire restrictions hopefully get lifted, Cant go camping without a campfire. You are correct, we are on stage II restrictions. I have spoken with the ranger station about our camp location. I had heard it was a closed camp site a while back. They told me its open, none of the fires affected this area, although still on stage II restrictions.


I will address all of your advice on the hike in one response.

There is only one trail in and one trail out. Its not much of a technical hike, but there are the couple spots i mentioned where there is the possibility of a dangerous slip. Kind of like these people who are at the grand canyon and simply slip and fall. My son is athletic and has done plenty of hiking, and he can definately tackle this hike. Its just a couple spots on the hike where there is the chance of a fatal slip. I guess i can just hold on to him there or get slightly downhill from him and let him tackle it on his own.

 

[MtnT4R]

There is only one trail in and one trail out. Its not much of a technical hike, but there are the couple spots i mentioned where there is the possibility of a dangerous slip. Kind of like these people who are at the grand canyon and simply slip and fall. My son is athletic and has done plenty of hiking, and he can definately tackle this hike. Its just a couple spots on the hike where there is the chance of a fatal slip. I guess i can just hold on to him there or get slightly downhill from him and let him tackle it on his own.

When you get to those areas, slow way down and talk your way through the area with your son. Point out the fall zones, note the condition of the trail and weather(wet, frost, dry, etc.) and make sure he maintains 3 points of contact with the trail at all times. If only one limb is moving at a time you can truly minimize the possibility of a slip.

It looks like the others have hashed out all the major stuff. if you plan to do this sort of thing more often, buy a SPOT to keep in contact with the rest of the family, just in case. Those gadgets are one of the most useful pieces of equipment you could bring, besides a well stocked med kit.

 

[ddnww]

[MENTION=91673]MtnT4R[/MENTION] great advice, thanks. That's exactly how I planned on those spots. Stop, talk over strategy, the dangers and how to execute getting safely through them.I think we will be fine with out the use of rope. My fatherly worries got the best of me I guess.

I was actually looking at that same device at the outdoor store the other day.

I haven't set my runner up with a cb yet, was thinking bout a hand held one.

 

[iBison]

[MENTION=91230]iBison[/MENTION] this is my favorite camping spot, and i really dont wanna give it up lol. But im sure once i post pics, someone in AZ will know the spot. I will tell you where its at after the trip. It is bear, mountain lion, and javelina country. Thanks for the great advice on dry and cold food. Open to suggestions on how to tether without risking both our lives. There is no other trail to our desitination from our camp site. I do have a good first aid kit.

I wouldn't worry much about the animals, but I follow common practices. Mt lions would be somewhat a concern for me if traveling alone. National or state park websites should have info on animal safety. You only have to worry about black bears. I don't know how many are in tat area, but some common sense practices are don't have food in your tent, or clothes that may have had food spilled on them.

I can't advise on tethering as that isn't something I have done. You are the parent, safety is your responsibility. You know the kid and what he's like and if it will likely be a problem. If you don't think it would be safe don't take him there, simple as that. Think about what you would have to live with if something happened to him, or what he would do if something happened to you. My son was smart enough when he was 8 to follow instructions and not do something dangerous if I explained the situation, unless maybe he was with a group of kids. Of course I have no idea of the place or actual risk involved and I haven't been to AZ yet.

 

[Clone of the Mean]

My son is a fire fighter for Coconino Natl Forest. He was telling they're going to shut the forest down completely. Oak Creek is on fire again. Sounds like a safe bet to wait for rainy season.
It's brutal here in Tucson…..

 

[GiGi's 1996]

7000ft elevation
60 - 80 degree weather
200ft water fall
creek with rainbow trout
mountain cliff indian ruins
peaks where you can see all the major mountain ranges in AZ
2 mile hike to canyon with 800-1000ft sheer cliffs(90 degree drop offs)
beautiful forest trees etc

Subscribed!op2:
Just to see where this mystery campsite is located......lol.
Trying to think of a location that has all of listed points of interest.
Any camping trip is wonderful up North when you can be where it is not 108 degrees outside! Good Luck.

 

[preacher35]

I was going to guess that you are talking about Coconino or Apache Sitgreaves. I've camped all over both and they are BEAUTIFUL! I am a die hard Texan, but if I EVER had to call any other place home, it would be Arizona!

 

[1engineer]

All great advice. DO NOT TETHER OR ROPE UP! Why? Because odds are you could slip and fall just as easily (or more because you are old) as him and if you are roped together and you slip he can't hold you....

He is 11 years old. If you think it's too dangerous for him then go somewhere else.

 

[snivilous]

Didn't see it stated anywhere but there's like 15 pages of text to read through--bring a handgun or some kind of easily portable weapon. So if someone goes Deliverance on you you have a means of defense. And bring lots of water. And a dog. And matches. You can survive a long ass time with those if all else goes south.

 

[ddnww]

I wouldn't worry much about the animals, but I follow common practices. Mt lions would be somewhat a concern for me if traveling alone. National or state park websites should have info on animal safety. You only have to worry about black bears. I don't know how many are in tat area, but some common sense practices are don't have food in your tent, or clothes that may have had food spilled on them.

I can't advise on tethering as that isn't something I have done. You are the parent, safety is your responsibility. You know the kid and what he's like and if it will likely be a problem. If you don't think it would be safe don't take him there, simple as that. Think about what you would have to live with if something happened to him, or what he would do if something happened to you. My son was smart enough when he was 8 to follow instructions and not do something dangerous if I explained the situation, unless maybe he was with a group of kids. Of course I have no idea of the place or actual risk involved and I haven't been to AZ yet.

im not worried about the animals, i have camped this area many times without seeing anything, but i will still be prepared. thanks for the advice.

My son is a fire fighter for Coconino Natl Forest. He was telling they're going to shut the forest down completely. Oak Creek is on fire again. Sounds like a safe bet to wait for rainy season.
It's brutal here in Tucson…..

yes, im definately waiting for the monsoons, however, the area we're are going to be in has not been affected by the fires at all.

Subscribed!op2:
Just to see where this mystery campsite is located......lol.
Trying to think of a location that has all of listed points of interest.
Any camping trip is wonderful up North when you can be where it is not 108 degrees outside! Good Luck.

lol, you may know the area once i post it. Gotta love the Arizona outdoors.

I was going to guess that you are talking about Coconino or Apache Sitgreaves. I've camped all over both and they are BEAUTIFUL! I am a die hard Texan, but if I EVER had to call any other place home, it would be Arizona!

Those are beautiful spots indeed, but i won't say whether you're right or not:hatsoff: I remember reading that Arizona was one of the top rated states for beautiful outdoor spots.

All great advice. DO NOT TETHER OR ROPE UP! Why? Because odds are you could slip and fall just as easily (or more because you are old) as him and if you are roped together and you slip he can't hold you....

He is 11 years old. If you think it's too dangerous for him then go somewhere else.

THanks for your input.

Didn't see it stated anywhere but there's like 15 pages of text to read through--bring a handgun or some kind of easily portable weapon. So if someone goes Deliverance on you you have a means of defense. And bring lots of water. And a dog. And matches. You can survive a long ass time with those if all else goes south.

I will have my S&W m&p 40. and my bolt action 30-06. I suffer from migraines, so i always have more than enough water with me at all times to keep me hydrated. I've been contemplating on whether to bring my dog or not. She goes to the lake with us all the time and does good, but she has never been on a camping trip. I know she would do good and have fun and keep us alert of dangers, but some of the climbs we will hike are mild rock climbing. I dont know how she will do in those spots.

 

[ndcent]

Perhaps frivolous suggestions, but a few things I never camp without...

LED Headlamp

Hatchet

LED Lantern with hand crank

Handgun

 

[ddnww]

Perhaps frivolous suggestions, but a few things I never camp without...

LED Headlamp

Hatchet

LED Lantern with hand crank

Handgun

good, I got all those items. :bravo:

 

[MtnT4R]

As far as pocket camping items goes:

- what sort of pocket saw were you looking at? Don't bother with the wire ones- I think someone mentioned a hunting bone saw, which is pretty much all I use
- have you looked into Sawyer squeeze water filters? they are the best, most compact filters, bar none.

Are you bringing a stove or cooking over the campfire?