Some WS Transmission Woes

[Fleethammer]

A little background- I bought my 4Runner in May of 2012 with 117K on it. It was fantastic and drove like new. I decided to do a full transmission flush and fill because I was planning on towing with it, and used the Toyota flush procedure for WS transmissions and the DIY's that other users have posted (thank you!)

So, the used transmission fluid that came out during the flush looked and smelled fine, better than most auto transmission fluids I've changed in days of old. Probably could have left it in there for another 50K but because of the towing issue, I decided it was best to change it.

I only managed to shoehorn 11 quarts into it during the flush. With 12 quarts, the fluid just poured out the stand pipe when I had on level ground. I drained about 1/2 quart out until it came to a "slow trickle" as The Toyota fluid flush instructions specify.

I feel like the flush messed up the performance of the transmission just a little bit. It doesn't shift as snappy as it used to, like the transmission hesitates or "thinks" about what gear it wants to be in. I thought it would get better with time, but it has stayed the same. This is only when driving to and from work at speeds under 45mph and I try to pass someone. When I press the accelerator, the motor bogs down like a manual trans would do if you left it in 5th gear and hammered it, and it takes 1 or 2 seconds before it shifts. After it shifts, it sorts realizes that dropping one gear wasn't enough, and it downshifts a second time into the correct gear. This also happens when turning corners- I will slow to 10mph lets say to take a turn and when I complete the turn and get on the gas, I realize the trans stayed in fourth gear the whole time and I have to stand on the gas to get it to drop into second or whatever gear is needed to accelerate up to the normal speed of traffic.

Before the flush it shifted very fast (or at least faster than other automatics I remember), and "knew" how many gears it needed to drop according to how much I pressed the pedal and how fast I was moving. On the highway it's fine since you usually only go down one gear to pass or just unlock the torque converter. I might do another flush and fill and drop the pan to inspect it for signs of excessive wear. Anyone have any other suggestions? Is it possible it's overfilled or under filled slightly?

 

[chmura]

How did you check the level of the fluid in the transmission?

There is a temperature check mode that you have to enable to be able to check the transmission fluid level properly. This basically lets you know when the transmission temperature is ready and is able to be checked. Without enabling this temperature check mode you basically do know if the fluid is too hot or too cold. There is a temperature window when you are able to check the fluid level for proper level.

It is very important to make sure you have the proper level by using Toyota's procedure to check the transmission fluid properly and not just eye ball it. Fluid expands and contracts with temperature change so this is the only way to accurately set the level of the transmission fluid.

I would make sure you do this before anything else.

So the way to check the fluid.

Put the transmission in temp check mode. I do not have the instructions with me at this time. You can find it online. A solid AT light will be lit on your dash when transmission temperature is ready to be checked. If the AT light is blinking, transmission temperature is too high so you have to turn off the vehicle, let it cool and try again.

Unscrew the overflow nut and unscrew the fill hole of the transmission. (Yes have both unscrewed). Fluid might come out of the overflow nut so just catch the fluid.

Start pumping in transmission fluid in the fill hole until you start seeing some come out of the overflow hole. Wait till it comes to a small trickle and tighten the overflow nut. Then tighten the fill hole.

You should be good to go. This is just a brief explanation of how to properly check the transmission level.

 

[Fleethammer]

Yes, I did the check procedure as specified. The whole flush and check procedure wasn't that hard, just time consuming. It took a couple tries to get the trans in check mode, but it definitely works as described. The vehicle was also on poured concrete surface in my garage. Just to be safe, I checked the frame rails to see that they were level from to back. The front was a little lower than the rear so I put the jack under the front and give it one or two pumps to level it off completely. Side to side it was perfect and required no leveling.

I go to great lengths to make sure I follow instructions correctly- it's one thing I'm especially proud of What I don't understand is how sometimes when I do everything right, I don't get the desired results.

I'm thinking about putting another quart in and seeing what happens.

 

[ChaosStarter]

Yes, I did the check procedure as specified. The whole flush and check procedure wasn't that hard, just time consuming. It took a couple tries to get the trans in check mode, but it definitely works as described. The vehicle was also on poured concrete surface in my garage. Just to be safe, I checked the frame rails to see that they were level from to back. The front was a little lower than the rear so I put the jack under the front and give it one or two pumps to level it off completely. Side to side it was perfect and required no leveling.

I go to great lengths to make sure I follow instructions correctly- it's one thing I'm especially proud of What I don't understand is how sometimes when I do everything right, I don't get the desired results.

I'm thinking about putting another quart in and seeing what happens.

You really need to recheck it at the exact temp setting again. There are very sensitive transmissions as far as the fluid is concerned. Adding another quart may only just hurt the situation more unless you know that it's definately low.

 

[Fleethammer]

I can check it again, but I'm not sure why I would get different results than the first time. I connected the two ports in the OBDII port as specified and when the transmission was at the correct temp, I opened the check plug (not the drain plug, lol) and about 3/4 quart came out until it came to a "slow trickle". Then I put the plug back in, unplugged the jumper wire from the DLC and that was that.

Although it could be anything, I am thinking it's fluid level because it was working great until I flushed it. It's possible that I screwed up because the whole idea of a "slow trickle" is entirely subjective. What I consider a slow trickle will be different than what a Toyota engineer may consider a slow trickle. To me, it means just a little stream is coming out, like when you change your oil and the pan is almost done draining (right before the point where the stream turns to a drip). When I did the check procedure, fluid POURED out of the check drain when I opened it. I needed to get about 3/4 quart out to get to what I consider a "slow trickle". If this transmission is super-sensitive to fluid level, than a subjective visual observation for checking fluid level isn't going to cut it and will almost guarantee transmission damage when flushing the fluid due to over or under filling. We know however from the number of users who have done the flush, that this simply isn't the case. Each of us likely has slightly different amounts of WS fluid in our transmission because we will all interpret "slow trickle" differently. Because of this, we can assume that it's fine to over fill or under fill this transmission slightly with no ill effects. Supporting this is the fact that many users who did the flush have reported that Toyota under filled some transmissions and over filled others from the factory. It seems the over filling cases were over filled by as much as 2-3 quarts.

If the performance problem goes away after adding more fluid, than it was simply a little low. If it doesn't change or gets worse, I can always drain some out. The last thing I want to do is drain fluid out and not be able to drive to the dealer to get more because it's under-filled

Of course, now all my buddies who remember how back in the day we never changed the fluid in old American cars because the transmissions would go out, are saying "I told you so- NEVER change automatic transmission fluid!"

You really need to recheck it at the exact temp setting again. There are very sensitive transmissions as far as the fluid is concerned. Adding another quart may only just hurt the situation more unless you know that it's definately low.

 

[WillK]

I have nothing really to add then to say it does sound like a fluid level issue.

Just need to figure out if it's over or under, and do it without damaging anything...

 

[chmura]

I only managed to shoehorn 11 quarts into it during the flush. With 12 quarts, the fluid just poured out the stand pipe when I had on level ground. I drained about 1/2 quart out until it came to a "slow trickle" as The Toyota fluid flush instructions specify.

I do not understand this portion of your post when I reread it.

If I remember correctly I used 13-14 quarts. The more you use the better the flush.

What do you mean "the fluid just pored out the stand pipe". You mean the overfill hole?

 

[Fleethammer]

Yes, the overfill hole is a stand pipe inside the pan. So when I say stand pipe, I mean overflow hole. I bought a case of WS fluid (12 quarts) and performed the flush as detailed, using a graduated Rubbermaid container I got at the supermarket (I think it's for making iced tea lol). What I flushed out, I replaced as precisely as possible. Obviously there is no way to get it down ot the Cc or even teh ounce, but it was as exact as you can get it in a home garage. The way I removed the fluid was to unhook the return line and flush out exactly 2 quarts and then refill the transmission with 2 quarts. I did it 2 quarts at a time rather than three because I did not want to risk letting the trans pump run dry. I have remote start so I was able to control how much I wanted to pump out right from the container at the front of the vehicle. I didn't want to deal with running around the truck to turn it on and off, or run the risk of the cooler line popping out of the container and spraying fluid all over the place, making it hard for me to determine how much actually came out.

When I performed the check procedure after doing the flush, 3/4 a quart came out, so my entire transmission only holds about 11 quarts because of how much drained out when I did the check procedure. According to the Toyota documentation, it should hold about 12.04 quarts. 13 or 14 just seems like way too much

Here are the fluid capacities from the Toyota documentation in Liters (US qts, Imp.qts)

• Removal and installation of an oil pan (including oil drainage) 1.7 (1.80, 1.50)
• Removal and installation of a transmission valve body. 4.3 (4.54, 3,78)
• Replacement of a torque converter 5.4 (5.70, 4.75)

I do not understand this portion of your post when I reread it.

If I remember correctly I used 13-14 quarts. The more you use the better the flush.

What do you mean "the fluid just pored out the stand pipe". You mean the overfill hole?

 

[chmura]

I used the same bucket, the ice tea one works really well.

In theory you can flush out how much/how little fluid you want. Since you are catching the old fluid from the return line and putting in the same amount back into the fill hole in the trans. You can do this all day literally. That's why I used 13-14 quarts, yeah I probably wasted 1-2 quarts but when I was finished cherry red fluid was coming out of the return line vs brownish red. The more flush the better in this case.

The way you describe it, that's the way I did mine. I just used a few more quarts than you did.

I noticed an improvement in my shifts. After a two off road trips (Death Valley and Anza Borrego) my transmission behaves the same.

The only thing I can think of. I had 52k miles on my transmission and you have over 100k. Many people say that doing a simple drain/fill is better for a 100k+ mile transmission that has never been serviced instead of a complete flush like you did.

Try resetting the battery and leave it unplugged for 15 minutes. This is a long shot, maybe this will reset the shift points/pattern of the transmission.

 

[08T4R]

The jumper wire needs to be removed also as it alters the idle slightly. This is noted in one of the Toyota pdf's I read. Once you put it in check mode it will stay until you cycle the key off and on again. You can check that by going to park or neutral if I remember right and the at light will flash once to show its still in check mode. I know it works because I removed the jumper and connected a SGII to check the temps. I made a post about it like a month or two ago. I doubt it'll have much affect on fluid level. Just throwin it out there.