Spacers Void Warranty?

[Even Steven]

Who said anything about what the techs get paid? I said the dealerships make less money on warranty work, not the techs. This is a well known fact, not a theory. Since they are paying the techs the same regardless of warranty/non-warranty, then this is plenty of incentive for the dealership management to give the non-warranty work priority.

Okay, so you're just proving to me that you don't know how a dealership service department works.

Do you realize that both the techs AND the dealership get paid either way? Do you realize that Toyota Motor Corp. subsidizes warranty work? Do you realize that the dealership doesn't have to foot the bill for Toyota's warranty coverage?

Most importantly, do you know that the majority of work performed in a dealership is WARRANTY work? Most people will bring their vehicles back to the dealer when it is under warranty, but the majority of those people will service their vehicle elsewhere after the warranty has expired.

If dealerships relied on non-warranty work, most of them would be in pretty sad shape.

 

[ProMed]

Okay, so you're just proving to me that you don't know how a dealership service department works.

Do you realize that both the techs AND the dealership get paid either way? Do you realize that Toyota Motor Corp. subsidizes warranty work? Do you realize that the dealership doesn't have to foot the bill for Toyota's warranty coverage?

Most importantly, do you know that the majority of work performed in a dealership is WARRANTY work? Most people will bring their vehicles back to the dealer when it is under warranty, but the majority of those people will service their vehicle elsewhere after the warranty has expired.

If dealerships relied on non-warranty work, most of them would be in pretty sad shape.

LOL, you are missing the point here. Toyota pays the dealership less for warranty work than the public would pay for the same job out of pocket.

 

[Even Steven]

LOL, you are missing the point here. Toyota pays the dealership less for warranty work than the public would pay for the same job out of pocket.

No they don't... the work peformed is paid by flat rate. For example, if a head gasket needs to be replaced, and the flat rate book lists that particular job at 4.5 hours, then the dealership gets reimbursed for its shop rate (typically $70-80/hour in my area) multiplied by 4.5 hours. It doesn't matter how long it takes the tech to perform the job, the pay remains constant.

Now that can be both good and bad, depending upon the speed of the tech. If he can do the job in half the time, he's effectlively doubling his hourly rate of pay. That's why so many techs can earn 60-80 hours of pay in a 40-hour work week.

The flat rate books are ALWAYS very conservative.....and most techs can easily beat the flate rate time by at least 50%

 

[ProMed]

No they don't... the work peformed is paid by flat rate. For example, if a head gasket needs to be replaced, and the flat rate book lists that particular job at 4.5 hours, then the dealership gets reimbursed for its shop rate (typically $70-80/hour in my area) multiplied by 4.5 hours.

So you are saying that Toyota pays the Toyota dealership the same amount to have a head gasket replaced that they would charge me? I find that hard to believe after hearing nothing but the opposite for so many years. Even if true, the dealership still makes more money off the paying customers from their big mark-up on the actual parts used in the service.

 

[Even Steven]

I'm just saying that flat rate is flat rate, regardless of warranty work or not. Years ago, they used to have two flat rate books; one for warranty work and one for non-warranty work. Of course each book had different times listed, but that practice was abolished when people started crying foul.

I still think working for flat rate pay sucks, even if it is easy to beat the book time. I'd much rather work at a slower pace and get paid an hourly wage. But I'm no longer in the business, so it doesn't matter to me.

 

[ProMed]

There's no doubt that a dealership can give you a hard time....but my point is that we should all know our rights and how to deal with a dealership that isn't following warranty law.

If we just keep walking away without standing up for our rights, then they win and we ALL lose. I hate to think this is an "us versus them" type of situation, but that seems to be pretty accurate, mostly because of all the people who were not informed and did not stand up for their rights.

Why do dealers give owners a hard time with warranty work if this is how they make most of their money in the service department? Understaffed with techs, only want the big ticket warranty work, or what? Everytime I have had to get warranty work done it is like pulling teeth with them. They flat-out wouldn't do several of the jobs if I didn't have a copy of the TSB already printed to hand them.

On the other hand, if I go in for basic out-of-pocket service they are trying to up-sell me to get even more work done..

 

[Even Steven]

I'll tell you why... and this is the total truth that MOST people don't know about.

When you bring your Toyota vehicle in for service, the dealership techs are obligated to diagnose and repair it correctly. In the past, a lot of the techs were simply "parts swappers" who didn't really know how to diagnose a vehicle properly. Of course this was unacceptable to Toyota Motor Corp, since they were footing the bill for unnecessary repairs. So Toyota started doing something very smart. They started to REQUIRE that dealerships collect the supposed faulty parts that were removed and replace by the dealership technicians. These parts were shipped to Toyota where they were tested by company engineers. What they found was incredible--the majority of the parts returned were not faulty. To make a long story short, Toyota started charging back to the dealership the cost of any unsubstantiated warranty claim. In effect, the root cause of the problem was mostly a faulty diagnoses by dealership techs, so Toyota put the burden back on the dealership, which ended up taking money out of their pockets.

I'm not 100% sure how much Toyota monitors this today, but I remember when it was a hot issue internally with Toyota, and the dealerships really got smacked with footing the bill for the replacement of parts that didn't need to be replaced.

I believe this still carries over to today where some dealers give customers a harder time with warranty work. These dealers know that there is always a possibility of problems when it comes to warranty work, and they also know that they can get away with making the customer pay for replacing parts that may not need to be replaced without worrying about Toyota chargebacks.

 

[josh220]

So that's why they use any excuse possible to not do warranty work? And how can they use something like that to refuse service to you for something as small as a 1" leveling kit?