Stainless brake lines are now on...

[Casper]

Guys

Just had the Stoptech Stainless Steel Brake lines installed and alli can say is WOW...it sure wasnt a real cheap experiment but i love how the brakes feel now. Imagine making the pedal harder but at the same time less effort (travel) is required to make the brakes work. Im still adjusting but its like this, for those with the Sport brakes, imagine the normal set point of effort that you would use for brakes well that point is just now off the first 1/4" of brake travel. For the entire ride home, i hadn't yet adjusted my braking reaction and when i would attempt to use the same effort with the brakes as before, I would literally get nose dive from the truck slowing so fast. Its great, its just like both of my past BMW's with their upgraded brake systems.

The total for the parts was 200, and the install is actually alot more intensive that once originally planned and hence the original estimate for install ($100) almost tripled (275) but that is due to my service place never doing it before. Those in areas where SS brakelines and brake flushes are done more often should see a reduction in the install pricing.

I was unable to go back to the truck for pictures while thei install was going on for insurance purposes (so they say) but i did take some pictures of the Fluid and the lines that I will post up soon.

As a last note, even the tech that installed the lines made mention to my service advisor that the brakes were much more effective and the braking force that much higher after his road test in the truck.

 

[bulldog-yota]

Sounds great!!!

BTW was the SS lines any longer than the old rubber lines?

 

[Casper]

Im not 100% sure but i would think that they would be equal to or slightly longer

 

[Bluto]

Do you think the SS lines will improve the effectiveness of TRAC? I think it would.

 

[Casper]

Do you think the SS lines will improve the effectiveness of TRAC? I think it would.

Hard to really say but i guess theoretically it would.

 

[TeCKis300]

Do you think the SS lines will improve the effectiveness of TRAC? I think it would.

Glad you like the SS lines. I have personally put these on my IS300 and love the feel. Solid, firm, and reassuring especially for track sessions.

As for whether it would improve TRAC and ABS for that matter...that would be up for debate. The stock system is tuned for some compliance in the braking system. With SS lines, this compliance is removed and the TRAC or ABS systems, if exerting the same pressure on the brake lines, would brake harder than the supposed braking force it is trying to exert.

It has been rumored in the IS community with Team Lexus that SS lines had the effect of increasing braking distances when activating ABS.

 

[zig]

Just wondering how the long time trial of these has turned out. Has anyone installed these themselves, and problems? I think that I remember someone mentioning that they had to use a dremel to widen the bracket's?

One more thing, where did you get the lines and fluid?

Thanks!

 

[greasefingers]

I congratulate you. Good job mate. If sometimes bothers me that so many people are focused on squeezing out more horsepower, but never give the brakes a second thought. Brakes are more important to me.

I will be interested in the pics.

 

[Casper]

My lines have been flawless in some 12K+ miles. The stoptech lines that I purchased came with new mounting brakcets so there was no need to widen anything with a dremel. I did not have them installed but had them done by the local dealer as the need to reprogram the braking system with the new lines is required (from what I was told at the dealer).

The lines were purchased from Dave Zeckhausen www.zeckhausen.com and then drop shipped from Stop Tech directly. I have trusted Dave Z on all of my cars from my BMW M-series cars forward.

The fluid I originally purchased was ATE Typ200 which is a Dot4 fluid and have used it in other vehicles but I have switched over to Valvoline SynPower (full synthetic) Dot4 which is less expensive, easier to find at local auto stores and has higher dry and wet boiling points.

 

[mole177]

Im not 100% sure but i would think that they would be equal to or slightly longer

I beg to differ. just because the lines are stainless steel, meaning re-inforced lines are stronger doesn't necessarily mean they last longer. you should still check the brake lines regulary.

comming from experience, i had good-ridge SSB brake lines in my solara. after sitting for a while, the rear pasenger had busted under a fairly hard braking.

OP: glad you like the SSBB upgrade. imho, it's way better than just a rotor/pad upgrade.

btw, what/which DOT fluid are you using?

 

[boston_kevin]

It has been rumored in the IS community with Team Lexus that SS lines had the effect of increasing braking distances when activating ABS.

Uh, don't you mean decreased the braking distances? (or increased the efficiency of the braking system)...

 

[zig]

Reprogram the brake system? Does anyone know what that intails? So does that mean that you have to have the brakes reprogramed after a flush? I wouldn't think that there would be much difference.

Have you noticed any difference in the ATRAC?

 

[Casper]

I believe its because of the EBD and Brake Assist that it needs to be reprogramed.

There is no difference in systems operation with the SS lines or fluid. The only difference comes with pedal feel/modulation and overal performance.

Eyes are easily sucked from sockets under hard braking now.

 

[TeCKis300]

Uh, don't you mean decreased the braking distances? (or increased the efficiency of the braking system)...

Nope...read a few posts up.

Pedal feel has nothing to do with ultimate braking distances. Under ABS engaged braking, brake feel goes out the door. At that point, it is up to the computer and the pretuned system to utilize the maximum grip available. If the SS lines significantly change the expected ABS response, then it may very well increase braking distances. That said, I still wouldn't have it any other way...brake feel all the way up to engaging ABS is critical for the track sessions in my IS300 at least.

For the truck that will see duty in temperature extremes (ski trips) and regular road use, I'm keeping stock lines. They will ultimately last longer IMO.

 

[boston_kevin]

Nope...read a few posts up.

Pedal feel has nothing to do with ultimate braking distances. Under ABS engaged braking, brake feel goes out the door. At that point, it is up to the computer and the pretuned system to utilize the maximum grip available. If the SS lines significantly change the expected ABS response, then it may very well increase braking distances. That said, I still wouldn't have it any other way...brake feel all the way up to engaging ABS is critical for the track sessions in my IS300 at least.

So this negatively affects braking performance (outside of track use) by increasing the distance required to stop the truck... I can do the same thing with some grease... The only benefit is the brake fade is decreased which, unless you are constantly on the brakes, should never happen anyway... Yea, I'll stick with my stock lines.

 

[Koz]

The OEM brake lines are hard rubber, flexibility is needed because the brake calipers are attached to the wheels/suspension. This is the line attached from the frame/inner fender to the caliper. Because of the heat and pressure exerted on the OEM rubber lines they tend to expand and thus reduce the actual pressure to the pads/rotors. The steel-braided lined will have less expansion and therefore provide more pressure to the pads/rotors. It is real important that you get the braided lines that are plastic/vinyl coated. Dirt/debris gets in between the rubber hose and the braided cover and damages the rubber/Teflon hose. Make sure the lines are plastic/vinyl coated (over the steel/kevlar braided covers).

Koz

 

[Casper]

Nope...read a few posts up.

Pedal feel has nothing to do with ultimate braking distances. Under ABS engaged braking, brake feel goes out the door. At that point, it is up to the computer and the pretuned system to utilize the maximum grip available. If the SS lines significantly change the expected ABS response, then it may very well increase braking distances. That said, I still wouldn't have it any other way...brake feel all the way up to engaging ABS is critical for the track sessions in my IS300 at least.

For the truck that will see duty in temperature extremes (ski trips) and regular road use, I'm keeping stock lines. They will ultimately last longer IMO.

Teckis,

Im not quite sure I understand your thinking. You mention tracking your IS300. I totally understand your thoughts that unless the ABS system can accurately take advantage of the increased line pressure under high pressure situations. This is a true statement as anything that changes the ABS actuators and solenoid reactions CAN have a adverse affect on the system. As for braking distance, if you can egage the ABS system, then theoretically contact patch area is really the limiting factor in braking distance.

Vehicles with Brake Assist (like our 4runners) must be reprogrammed to take advantage of the increased line pressure and the resulting lack of pressure loss seen in the OEM lines due to expansion. Though NO information I have seen from Brembo/Stoptech/AP/Alcon would state that the switch over to SS lines would actually increase the resulting braking distances. In the end, if higher pressure is ultimately availible every time the control valve opens and closes, thus allowing piston movement in the caliper, that should reduce or at least create more predictible stopping over multiple times. Exactly what they are stated to do.

As for your comments on extreme temps and normal everyday driving. In extreme temps, the rubber lines are actually more succeptable to degredation due to enviornmental conditions than that of the Stainless lines. While both lines will ultimately last near the life of the vehicle, the metal lines will ultimately have a longer life span (if properly constructed---thanks Koz for the info back up. Spot on!)

 

[Casper]

I beg to differ. just because the lines are stainless steel, meaning re-inforced lines are stronger doesn't necessarily mean they last longer. you should still check the brake lines regulary.

comming from experience, i had good-ridge SSB brake lines in my solara. after sitting for a while, the rear pasenger had busted under a fairly hard braking.

OP: glad you like the SSBB upgrade. imho, it's way better than just a rotor/pad upgrade.

btw, what/which DOT fluid are you using?

Mole,

Im completely with you on checking your brake lines on a regular basis but honestly, few people on this board will ever check theirs.

As for your story, that is quite an irregularrity...I know many people running SS lines with and without an accompanying Big Brake Kit and have never heard first hand that a line had busted.

 

[TeCKis300]

In the end, if higher pressure is ultimately availible every time the control valve opens and closes, thus allowing piston movement in the caliper, that should reduce or at least create more predictible stopping over multiple times. Exactly what they are stated to do.
[/B]

It is exactly because of this behavior that the resulting ABS engaged stops *might* be longer. Because the compliance is taken out, each control valve action can result in too much pressure to the caliper resulting in an instantaneous lockup of the tire which is bad fro traction.

However, there are of course many other variables such as road conditions/tire/traction so I wouldn't get hung up on this.

 

[Casper]

honestly what needs to be considered the most is actually F/R bias. I think that there might be a lil' too much front bias right now with my current setup and might be trying different pads to reduce nose dive and bring bias back a little closer to normal.