Stay away from Semi-Metallic Brake Pads

[89FourRunner]

For those of you bringing your 1st gen back to life, and spending hard earned money on replacement brake parts like calipers and rotors, I wanted to make mention of some basic brake information.

As per the factory service manual, the OE material used for the brake pads of our 4Runners is "organic". Most of us go into an autozone and grab a set of brake pads and never consider the material. 90% of the time, the material sold at these parts stores is semi-metallic. Semi-metallics claim to fame is less brake fade and stronger bite on the rotors (and therefore a different feel at the brake pedal).

What many non-gear heads do not realize is that semi-metallic brake pads chew up rotors, even if you change them on time. It has become common place to expect your rotors to need refinishing after a few brake pad changes, but that is actually not normal. They should rarely if ever need to be resurfaced or replaced. It is the introduction of semi-metallic brake pads thst cause the rotors to be destroyed this quickly. Stop wasting money.

Organic brake pad material is softer, and softer brake pads have more give. This means more brake dust, and a shorter pad life. You want the pad to give faster rather than have the pad last a few extra thousand miles but need to replace the rotors. Also, organic pads are super quiet. If you have a squealing problem but your pads are not ready to be replaced, you are most likely hearing the semi-metallic pads chew your rotors. Little inconsistant chunks of metal wear grooves into the rotor. You think it is the wear indicator, and its not.

Toyota and many OE manufactuerers use organic pads because they keep your braking system reliable and like new much longer. The trade is the pads have a shorter life.

This used to be common knowledge, but now it seems hard to find organic pads. Napa and car quest stocks them, but autozone and advance auto do not.

When you are rebuilding your brake system, ensure you do not waste your money by installing semi metallic pads. Always enquire about the pad material. Do not let a salesman explain that semi metallic is an upgrade because of less brake dust and a stronger bite when braking. All you are doing with this upgrade is chewing rotors and making your brakes noisy.

Organic is OEM material for a reason, these are not mack trucks, they do not need a pad aggressive to the point of drstroying brake components.

Keep them reliable and on the road!

 

[ntsqd]

I don't patronize the chain stores any more than I absolutely have to. Real parts stores tend to have real parts counter people, something anyone in the automotive hobby world will eventually come to appreciate. It is worth the small difference in price to keep those people employed where they can help you.

I tend to buy CarQuest's "Fleet Service" brake pads, though I've been told that the name has recently changed to something that I don't recall. A good counter person will know what the new name for those pads is. I get good cold bite, reasonably low dusting, decent pad fade resistance, and reasonable life from these pads. The only pads that I've driven in a Yota that were better were the OEM pads, which are worth serious consideration.

 

[T5RUNNER]

I would choose ceramic over organic every time for any street vehicle. Ceramics did not exist yet back when your truck was built with organic pads.

 

[89FourRunner]

It is true that ceramics are getting popular. Ceramic pads also damage rotors rather quickly in comparison to organic. I wouldn't use them. If I had to chose ceramic over semi metallic I definitely would though. I still want the softest pad available.

 

[KDKKJS]

Ceramic all the way

 

[KidVermicious]

I'll be That Guy, I guess. Everything the OP says about rotor wear is true, they are noisier and they do chew through rotors faster. But they bite better at all temperatures, and most importantly for me, they bite much better at temps that would have organic pads dripping from your wheel wells. Trying to hurry down a steep mountain pass half an hour before you lose daylight is the last time you want to have to stop and let the brakes cool down.

Organic is great for daily driving and light use. But I'll always run SM on my wheeling trucks. The decreased rotor life is worth the increased performance for me.

 

[89FourRunner]

I'll be That Guy, I guess. Everything the OP says about rotor wear is true, they are noisier and they do chew through rotors faster. But they bite better at all temperatures, and most importantly for me, they bite much better at temps that would have organic pads dripping from your wheel wells. Trying to hurry down a steep mountain pass half an hour before you lose daylight is the last time you want to have to stop and let the brakes cool down.

Organic is great for daily driving and light use. But I'll always run SM on my wheeling trucks. The decreased rotor life is worth the increased performance for me.

That makes plenty of sense. I ran semi metallic for quite some time too. But I was tired of dealing with rotors, especially with these trucks, it isn't like they just pop off. What drew the line for me was the last time i ever used semi-metallic pads I resurfaced my rotors, installed semi metallic, and drove them 8000 miles before I thought I was hearing the wear indicator. No, one of the pads put a gash around my rotor, and upon inspecting the pad I could see where on the pad this was created. This was the SECOND time this happened to me. They were auto zone semi metallic. I switched to organic and never looked back, they rotors stay smooth between brake jobs, and I haven't had any brake fade with daily driving on 31s.

Your explanation of constant downhill braking to beat day light while wheeling makes total sense though, so in that regard I understand completely.

 

[ThorInc]

Can always switch to CCM, carbon ceramic but it's pricey. Heck, they do rotors and brakes.

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[ntsqd]

I would venture that the problem was not with the semi-metallic pads, but with the source. I have yet buy any wear part from VatoZone/Schlep Boys/O'Reagan's etc. that was worth a damn. I don't care that the box may have had a brand name on it, those 'big box' stores seem to be able to get seconds or lower quality parts or whatever from those name brands that they then sell for less than more reputable (aka Real Parts) stores and the average guy thinks he's getting the same parts. As far as I'm concerned the name brands are shooting themselves in the foot by doing that.

Off my soapbox......

 

[RonJR]

If you're getting your brakes hot enough to fade coming down a steep mountain pass while wheeling (or on the highway for that matter), you need to review your driving technique. Brakes are for bringing your vehicle to a stop, not for speed control on long downhills. That's what gears are for. Ask any trucker about that, especially the one you see stuck half-way up a runaway truck ramp.

 

[00Sebby]

When it comes to brakes, less dust, less fade and more bite are what's important to me. I don't care to replace a rotor every 100k miles if I need to. I used to have a MINI Cooper S and the brakes on it were made out of charcoal apparently. The pads wore out super fast and would dust up a clean wheel within 10 miles. I hated that.

 

[Kean]

Not all pads are created equal. There are quite a few manufacturers/products to choose from with varying quality, compounds, performance, etc. ....and a lot has changed over the last 30 years. The key is choosing the right pad for your needs/application and make sure it's of good quality or risk increasing your chances of having a bad experience.

 

[89FourRunner]

I guess the quality comes into play. Perhaps the autozone semi-metallic are worse than other semi-metallic but a lot of these parts are the same shit these days.

Regardless, I found them noisy as hell, I could hear the brakes working away, and many times it squealed as if I needed brake pads. I found them to chew up my rotors really quickly. Like I said I resurfaced my rotors smooth as glass, and in a mere 8,000 miles they are bumpy everywhere, and several rings in several spots on the rotors. I can see where on the pad the ring was created. It is nuts.

With the organic, it brakes quite, I don't hear a thing, ever. They keep the rotors smooth. Like I said I run 31" tires and a hardtop with the 3VZE (the heaviest scenario on these things), and I havn't had issues with any brake fade or anything. The truck sees mild conditions though. Stop and go street driving, and regular offroad conditions: farm, trail, snow, small obstacles.

I cannot attest to a 4Runner on 35" tires with steel wheels at a total of 100 pounds of unspring weight or anything lol, so, I was merely commenting on keeping these trucks reliable in stock form.

I consider needing to resurface/replace brake calipers every time you need new pads, coupled with a noisy service life to be a less than optimum experience. I was starting to say to myself: "okay, both calipers are three years old, I baby the brakes and engine brake when it is acceptable to do so - what the hell am I doing wrong?". Then it clicked one day and I looked into the material used on the autozone brake pads (they only offer one grade level), and it was semi metallic. I referenced my service manual, it called for Organic. The rest was history.

I go with the cheapest Organics I can find too! They have been wonderful.

If you are chewing up rotors, have squeaky brakes and find yourself changing them before they are even worn out I am jsut saying I have been there and the fix is the softer pad for sure.

 

[Thefishguy77]

I run ceramics. Period. Less dust and good bite. I also resurface rotors every other break job. Needed or not. As any truck driver will tell you anyone one can get a heavy load to go. Getting it to stop is the art. Also ask racing drivers. Breaks are what make you faster. Being able to break later and harder in to the corner give you a longer run on the loud peddle.

I don't mind taking a day, pulling the rotors, driving down to napa in town having them resurface them. Then putting it back together. Also don't forget that you need to change your break fluid every so often. The harder you are on breaks the more often you should change it. (imho the most overlooked aspect of the break system)


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[ntsqd]

Brakes only slow you down.

Resurface the rotors with every pad change if you want to, but you're just wearing them out faster and reducing their thermal mass each time you do so. A good scuffing with 80 grit on a long board followed by a thorough washing with brake cleaner is all I give mine. Any transfer layer that may be there isn't terribly deep. If gouged or scored I give thought to replacing them and admonish myself to pay more more attention to them because something went wrong.

The brake fluid should be flushed at least every two years and more often if in a moist environment. I'm guilty of not doing this either. It was a PITA until I built a system to make it easy to do. Bought a turkey baster to evacuate the reservoir (figured using the one in the kitchen might be a problem.... ), hook up the hose to furthest away bleed nipple and add about 5 psi air pressure with the regulator. Stop when the reservoir is full, then empty it with the baster. Move to the next closer wheel and repeat.

 

[Thefishguy77]

Brakes only slow you down.



Resurface the rotors with every pad change if you want to, but you're just wearing them out faster and reducing their thermal mass each time you do so. A good scuffing with 80 grit on a long board followed by a thorough washing with brake cleaner is all I give mine. Any transfer layer that may be there isn't terribly deep. If gouged or scored I give thought to replacing them and admonish myself to pay more more attention to them because something went wrong.



The brake fluid should be flushed at least every two years and more often if in a moist environment. I'm guilty of not doing this either. It was a PITA until I built a system to make it easy to do. Bought a turkey baster to evacuate the reservoir (figured using the one in the kitchen might be a problem.... ), hook up the hose to furthest away bleed nipple and add about 5 psi air pressure with the regulator. Stop when the reservoir is full, then empty it with the baster. Move to the next closer wheel and repeat.

Great tip on swapping break fluid. I have always given it to a friend that has a shop he only charges me the cost of the fluid. I know I'm spoiled. But I will give the 80 grit technique a try next time. Won't hurt anything.

Thanks for the tips.


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[ntsqd]

I should mention that while I'm no expert by any means, I did spend nearly two years (2000-2002) designing brake system components for one of the racing brake parts mfg's. What I do know or have learned from experience I tried to summarize in a thread on 'Mud's FJ60 forum called "Comments on Brakes"