Stiff suspension on the Trail Edition

[TrailTex]

I'm new to the forum so I apologize if this has been brought up in another thread. I just bought a used 2010 Trail with KDSS from out of state (had it shipped) and it seems like I can feel every bump in the road. Don't get me wrong the KDSS is magnificent and I don't miss the body roll at all, but the suspension just seems stiffer than the SR5 I test drove.

Does the TE come with a stiffer offroad suspension than an SR5?

I do have aftermarket BFG LT 275/70/17 tires on it. Could that make for a rougher ride? I have them at 36 psi.

Any recommendations would be appreciated! I've always driven body on frame SUV's so I get that it should drive like a truck, but wasn't expecting it to feel quite so stiff. I am coming from a Lexus GX470 and it's air compression suspension was glorious and spoiled the snot out of me. :thanks:

 

[Y2KSR5]

Gotta be the tires. I cant feel ANY bump in the road on my SR5. Dont the TE and SR5 have the same shocks and springs? I thought KDSS was just like an electric sway bar disconnect.

 

[PracticalFJ]

Well, according to BFG Corporate your tires should be inflated to 50psi minimum. That's the amount of pressure I run in mine. I believe, that would make it stiffer.

If you change the tires back to OEM that will soften up your ride quite a bit.

 

[icsa]

...it seems like I can feel every bump in the road. Don't get me wrong the KDSS is magnificent and I don't miss the body roll at all, but the suspension just seems stiffer than the SR5 I test drove.

Does the TE come with a stiffer offroad suspension than an SR5?

:thanks:

One thing that KDSS adds is bigger sway bars. They are good for reducing body roll, but they also transmit vibrations to the body. Each time a wheel hits a bump, the vibration is transmitted through the bar to the oppposite spring. Not much you can do about it. Nothing comes "free" in life.

 

[UtahSooner]

I test drove a Limited and the Trail Edition (with KDDS that I ended up buying) before pulling the trigger. The Limited definitely felt a bit smoother on some rough pavement sections that I specifically tracked down to see if I could tell the difference in the suspension feel. I drove a Sport Edition 3rd Gen for 8 years before buying the new rig so I too was used to the slightly rougher ride but had been spoiled by some long road trips in friend's "cushy" SUVs and was considering going with the "grown up" options in the Limited...

I didn't drive the SR5 so I don't have that data point to compare agains, but according to the 4Runner specs webpage they should all be the same. I'd swear I read someplace before buying that the Trail had a different suspension setup than the SR5 and Limited (and more than just the addition of KDDS and/or the lack of X-REAS). Regardless, I definitely felt a difference during the test drive (and it was more than just the heated leather seats in the Limited, which were nice).

At the end of the day though, I love my TE and don't mind the stiffer feel.

 

[t4r4life]

Kings anyone lol

 

[TrailTex]

To anyone with KDSS who upgraded to Bisltein shocks, did you notice a big improvement in ride comfort? I want to soften up the ride a bit. Thanks.

 

[robotkiller]

To anyone with KDSS who upgraded to Bisltein shocks, did you notice a big improvement in ride comfort? I want to soften up the ride a bit. Thanks.

I did - my truck is less clunky over potholes than before. Dampening seems better controlled. Ride is better, IMO.

 

[reese2]

I notice the Trail had a rougher ride when I test drove and later purchased it in July 2010. Had also test driven a Nissan Pathfinder which had a much softer ride. After a while you get used to it. I'd been driving my 2005 Nissan Frontier Nismo (still am) so I was used to a stiffer suspension, but the truck had gotten softer after 80K miles. Other than possibly the air pressure change suggested above, I'd say stick with it and see if you get used to it before investing in after market shocks, etc. The biggest difference I noticed with the Trail vs. the Nissan truck is that it's more of a challenge to control on narrow roads. Migt have something to do with the higher clearance and shorter wheel base. Or, maybe its just something strange about my driving style.

The primary reason we purchased the Trail was for traveling. My wife felt sorry for me having to load the cargo area of my truck and then unload it again when we reached our destination. If it could rain, I had to wrap our bags in garbage bags as the cover was not water tight. Plus, she wanted to have navigation to reduce our "discussions" regarding maps and directions. Only way to get navigation and not get leather, due to my sometime hyper GSD, was the Trail. It has now been doggie proofed with covers tapes on the doors and a barrier between him and the back area as well as the front seats. I also took out the sliding tray so we could get all our stuff in the back area.

The Nissan truck is still my primary doggie and off-road vehicle for the GWNF and elsewhere. My wife doesn't want me to get the Trail scratched up as I have done with all my previous off-road vehicles. I am extra careful when we're on vacation and I take the Trail off-road.

 

[TrailTex]

I did - my truck is less clunky over potholes than before. Dampening seems better controlled. Ride is better, IMO.

robotkiller - Was it a noticeable difference in ride smoothness or just slightly better dampening? In the GX470 it actually allowed for you to adjust the suspension from comfort to sport which gave you the best of both worlds.

Ideally I'd like to soften the suspension without compromising the KDSS. Seems to me the Bilsteins would stiffen the ride since they are made for killing it off road. Am I way off on that?

 

[PracticalFJ]

TrailTex - I'm pretty sure it's your tires. Your BFG's are E rated and extremely stiff/strong.

I just switched from the OEM to the same size BFG's that you have and can't believe the ride difference. Much firmer and actually harsh at times over bumps, and road imperfections although much better when cornering. Also, I lost about 2 miles per gallon in both city and highway.

Personally, it works for me but may not work for everyone.

If you were to switch back to the BFG A/T in the stock size (265 70 17), they come in both C and E rating. Get the C rated tire and will find they make your ride that much comfortable..for that matter you could go with any brand tire as long as it's not E rated (stiffer sidewall).

Hope this helps, and enjoy your trail!

 

[Jtraskell]

TrailTex - Get the C rated tire and will find they make your ride that much comfortable..for that matter you could go with any brand tire as long as it's not E rated (stiffer sidewall).

Hope this helps, and enjoy your trail!

Just to cover all the bases as to the reference above about "any" tire, I have a "D" rated Light Truck tire, 8 ply, not BFG. As I understand it, "E" rated tires are 10 ply. The 8 ply Light Truck tire is also pretty stiff etc. etc. So keep that in mind if you switch out and go with another brand or type. The very soft OEM tires were "C" rated Passenger Car tires......one of the reasons many changed out the OEM tires. Just too soft.

 

[ATL4R]

The original tires are P-metric tires and are super soft and bouncy! The Load C, D, E tires will be much stiffer than the P-metric tires because they must be run at higher PSI to meet the load carrying capacity that the P-Metric tires had at 32psi. The P-metric tires are spec'd at 32 PSI for the 4Runner. Load C, D, & E tires will need to have higher PSI than 32, to match the load carrying capacity of that P rated tire @ 32psi. Load C and Load E's at similar PSIs will feel very similar. They both have 3 polyester plies in the sidewalls (If they are BFG AT KOs). Load inflation tables show that C,D,& E have almost identical capacity at each loads max... (example: the C's max out at 50 PSI around 2470 lbs per tire, while the E's also carry about 2500 lbs at 50 PSI, BUT the E's continue to increase in load carrying ability all the way up to 80psi - where they can probably support around 3500 lbs a piece!) - For reference, your 4Runner weights just under 5000 lbs.

There is a general rule that if you are switching from P to C,D, or E you should put 10-15psi more than what is called for on the door. The real way to do it is to compare load ratings in a load inflation table. I run my Load C KO's at 39psi which feels comfortable and allows me to carry a few thousand pounds if needed. At 39psi my Load Range C - BFG KOs are capable of supporting more than the axles on the vehicle are rated for MAX.

Just to cover all the bases as to the reference above about "any" tire, I have a "D" rated Light Truck tire, 8 ply, not BFG. As I understand it, "E" rated tires are 10 ply. The 8 ply Light Truck tire is also pretty stiff etc. etc. So keep that in mind if you switch out and go with another brand or type. The very soft OEM tires were "C" rated Passenger Car tires......one of the reasons many changed out the OEM tires. Just too soft.

 

[Jtraskell]

The original tires are P-metric tires and are super soft and bouncy! The Load C, D, E tires will be much stiffer than the P-metric tires because they must be run at higher PSI to meet the load carrying capacity that the P-Metric tires had at 32psi. The P-metric tires are spec'd at 32 PSI for the 4Runner. Load C, D, & E tires will need to have higher PSI than 32, to match the load carrying capacity of that P rated tire @ 32psi. Load C and Load E's at similar PSIs will feel very similar. They both have 3 polyester plies in the sidewalls (If they are BFG AT KOs). Load inflation tables show that C,D,& E have almost identical capacity at each loads max... (example: the C's max out at 50 PSI around 2470 lbs per tire, while the E's also carry about 2500 lbs at 50 PSI, BUT the E's continue to increase in load carrying ability all the way up to 80psi - where they can probably support around 3500 lbs a piece!) - For reference, your 4Runner weights just under 5000 lbs.

There is a general rule that if you are switching from P to C,D, or E you should put 10-15psi more than what is called for on the door. The real way to do it is to compare load ratings in a load inflation table. I run my Load C KO's at 39psi which feels comfortable and allows me to carry a few thousand pounds if needed. At 39psi my Load Range C - BFG KOs are capable of supporting more than the axles on the vehicle are rated for MAX.

Well done ATL4R. I keep confusing "C" tires with Passenger car or "P" metric. Good catch. Yea, my "D" tires have a max load at 65 psi cold of 3195 lbs! I run them at 45 PSI.

 

[TrailTex]

The original tires are P-metric tires and are super soft and bouncy! The Load C, D, E tires will be much stiffer than the P-metric tires because they must be run at higher PSI to meet the load carrying capacity that the P-Metric tires had at 32psi. The P-metric tires are spec'd at 32 PSI for the 4Runner. Load C, D, & E tires will need to have higher PSI than 32, to match the load carrying capacity of that P rated tire @ 32psi. Load C and Load E's at similar PSIs will feel very similar. They both have 3 polyester plies in the sidewalls (If they are BFG AT KOs). Load inflation tables show that C,D,& E have almost identical capacity at each loads max... (example: the C's max out at 50 PSI around 2470 lbs per tire, while the E's also carry about 2500 lbs at 50 PSI, BUT the E's continue to increase in load carrying ability all the way up to 80psi - where they can probably support around 3500 lbs a piece!) - For reference, your 4Runner weights just under 5000 lbs.

There is a general rule that if you are switching from P to C,D, or E you should put 10-15psi more than what is called for on the door. The real way to do it is to compare load ratings in a load inflation table. I run my Load C KO's at 39psi which feels comfortable and allows me to carry a few thousand pounds if needed. At 39psi my Load Range C - BFG KOs are capable of supporting more than the axles on the vehicle are rated for MAX.

Thanks for all the info!

ATL4R, how is the ride on your Load C KO's? I have my E's at 36 psi and they feel super stiff. Would C's feel any different? I may just get a set of soft road tires which I assume would be the P's. Does tire size matter in terms of comfort? Would a 275/17/70 in a 'P' feel as cush as the stock 265's?

 

[sandcrawler]

Thanks for all the info!

ATL4R, how is the ride on your Load C KO's? I have my E's at 36 psi and they feel super stiff. Would C's feel any different? I may just get a set of soft road tires which I assume would be the P's. Does tire size matter in terms of comfort? Would a 275/17/70 in a 'P' feel as cush as the stock 265's?

your Es are underinflated. yes, Cs will be slightly softer, but still not as soft as the POS OEM Ps.

 

[ATL4R]

My Load C KOs are pretty comfortable. They are definitely harsher than the P-metric tires which came on the 4Runner, but very civilized (my wife didn't notice any real ride difference). I only had the P-metric tires for 500 miles before I upgraded - so I can't make a in depth comparison. I do remember when I hit the brakes hard, the P-Metrics would bulge and make the vehicle feel like it was really squatting.

I may not be the best person to ask, because I came from a 08 F250 Crew Cab Diesel Super Duty riding on Load E's at 80 PSI. So the lower PSI in the Load C's feel like a cloud to me haha

You may want to look at something like the General Grabber AT2s or Goodyear Wrangler Silent Armors. Both of these tires come in P-metric sizes which fit our trucks and have pretty aggressive tread patterns. They will definitely have a softer ride than the LT tires. If you go with the Goodyear, verify they are putting the P-metric ones on instead of LT tires on because Goodyear makes a P265/70R17 and an LT265/70R17 in the Silent Armor.

Thanks for all the info!

ATL4R, how is the ride on your Load C KO's? I have my E's at 36 psi and they feel super stiff. Would C's feel any different? I may just get a set of soft road tires which I assume would be the P's. Does tire size matter in terms of comfort? Would a 275/17/70 in a 'P' feel as cush as the stock 265's?

 

[robotkiller]

robotkiller - Was it a noticeable difference in ride smoothness or just slightly better dampening? In the GX470 it actually allowed for you to adjust the suspension from comfort to sport which gave you the best of both worlds.

Ideally I'd like to soften the suspension without compromising the KDSS. Seems to me the Bilsteins would stiffen the ride since they are made for killing it off road. Am I way off on that?

For me, it was a noticeable difference. I wouldn't spend the money on Bilsteins for that reason alone, but there is no question in my mind that the truck rides and drives better than before.

I'll echo everyone else and say the tires make a bigger difference in ride quality. I previously ran BFG Load range Cs and switched to Firestone Destination AT 285s in a p-metric (primarily for the better wet performance). The ride is clearly smoother now and I don't feel I sacrificed anything in terms of ride stability or handling. Bonus is the tires are 3 pounds lighter than the BFGs (though the larger diameter of the tires may mean the increased rotational inertia cancel that benefit out). Either way, the truck doesn't feel slower. Given the relatively light offroading I do, the p-metric was ultimately the right choice for me.

 

[TrailTex]

ATL4R and robotkiller, many thanks! I will check out the P-metric recommendations you suggested. Robotkiller, those 285/17/70 Destinations look pretty rad on your truck. I'm thinking those in a 275 size might just do the trick for me! Thanks again. :hatsoff: