Strange Starter Issues

[benjhind]

Folks,

I'd like to get some help with starter issues I've been having. I have a 2000 T4R 3.4L with manual transmission (I've heard there are different starters for auto?) in case that matters.

I replaced the starter last summer with a rebuilt starter in the summer. At that time the issue was I'd turn the key and hear a 'click'. Trying again, a couple minutes and many many clicks later, it would engage and start normally. I assumed this was the solenoid connections and just replaced the starter with a rebuilt unit to avoid having to figure out which contacts to buy and how to do that. I'm not a good mechanic!

I have put very few miles/starts on the new starter, maybe 5000KM/3100Miles.

It now is behaving strangely and I will do my best to describe it. This usually happens after sitting overnight or for a long period. I turn the key, and hear the whizz of the starter spinning, but it does not turn the engine over (note: not just a click, I can hear the starter spin). I let go of the key. I turn the key again, and hear the starter spin. When I let go of the key, as the starter slows down, I can hear the starter engage the engine at the last second. The next time I turn the key, the engine starts normally.

Sometimes it takes 2 or 3 tries before I hear the starter engage the engine, but it always engages the engine after I've let go of the key, and it always starts normally on the next turn.

What the heck is going on here? The starter functioned normally for several months after I installed it, and now for the last month it has given me this issue. I can always get it going, but I'm looking at selling my beloved T4R in the near future and need it to function well for the buyer.

Many thanks,
Ben

 

[thegipper]

Did you use an el cheapo auto parts store starter? If so, that was your second mistake.

Your first mistake was not just putting new contacts in your old starter. It isn't hard to figure out which ones to order, the hardest part is getting that stupid starter out (especially if you have 4WD).

I know you say you're not a good mechanic but if you were able to pull the starter, that's 90% of the "hard" work.

Not trying to beat ya up here but most likely the issue is the replacement starter is a POS. I'm assuming this since you said you put a "rebuilt" starter in.

 

[benjhind]

Even if you were beating me up, it would be openly encouraged

Should have mentioned: yes, it is 4WD. Yes, it was a PITA to pull the starter!

As I was shelling out $250 for the starter, it didn't really occur to me that it could be an 'el cheapo' version. I got it from an auto parts store and didn't really think there were different grades of starters. I thought a rebuilt starter would be better than reusing the one I had. The worst part is I had to give up the one I had to get the 'core charge' refunded. I'm not a good mechanic!

A large driver was the fact that bass season was in full swing and I didn't want any down time looking for parts. Need the 'Runner to pull the boat!

Okay - can I get consensus that this starter is likely junk? It has a warranty so I should be able to have the parts store replace it. My only worry is that since it does work intermittently, I'll pull the damn thing just to have them tell me it worked fine when they tested it.

 

[RS Dude]

A large driver was the fact that bass season was in full swing and I didn't want any down time looking for parts. Need the 'Runner to pull the boat!

THIS was your first mistake. A day of bass fishing more important than your starter???:crybaby:

 

[RAD4Runner]

THIS was your first mistake. A day of bass fishing more important than your starter???:crybaby:

That's the reason why he have our trucks

Anyway, back on topic...

O.P.
The starter solenoid may not be pushing the bendix(?) gear far enough to engage the flywheel.
Yes, that is most likely because of a bad starter.
May I also suggest cleaning all - absolutely all, not just the cliched "check grounds" - contact points/connections from battery posts, to cables, to starter solenoid stud connector, to block ground, to surface where the starter is mounted to. Any corrosion in those will cause you to lose power going to the starter and COULD cause that problem - even if the starter solenoid plunger were not stuck.

 

[benjhind]

THIS was your first mistake. A day of bass fishing more important than your starter???:crybaby:

:fishing:
Car parts vs. memories of my kids yanking in big smallies???
:fish2:
You'll never guess which one I'd pick if I had to go back

 

[benjhind]

That's the reason why he have our trucks

Anyway, back on topic...

O.P.
The starter solenoid may not be pushing the bendix(?) gear far enough to engage the flywheel.
Yes, that is most likely because of a bad starter.
May I also suggest cleaning all - absolutely all, not just the cliched "check grounds" - contact points/connections from battery posts, to cables, to starter solenoid stud connector, to block ground, to surface where the starter is mounted to. Any corrosion in those will cause you to lose power going to the starter and COULD cause that problem - even if the starter solenoid plunger were not stuck.

Great points. The problem did seem to start at the beginning of "salt season" here in Ontario. You gotta love road salt...

I have an oil change coming up so I'll do my best to clean up connections. Its supposed to climb above freezing on the weekend here so good opportunity.

 

[Thehopping1]

Since you already have the starter in there I would clean all the connections and try the big 3 "mod" first to see if that fixes it. I rebuilt my starter a few months ago and got all the parts off amazon for $20.00 and like everyone said the hard part is pulling the starter. If you can, try to find a Toyota starter and swap new parts into that as they are so much better than anything you can get at Autozone it is actually ridiculous.



http://www.toyota-4runner.org/3rd-gen-t4rs/139597-performing-big-3-wiring-ugrade-3rd-gen-toyota-4runner-how.html


https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0031HMS7C/ref=oh_aui_detailpage_o05_s00?ie=UTF8&psc=1

 

[muellernautique]

The starter solenoid may not be pushing the bendix(?) gear far enough to engage the flywheel.
Yes, that is most likely because of a bad starter.

right on the money. exactly what happened with my other truck and the miata, bought an el cheapo rebuilt ultima and it failed in a month.

op, take your starter to hi-lo and have them test it. or if you have a jump pack or something similar, hook it up and test it yourself. it'll generally be obvious if the solenoid is weak. watch and make sure when it engages, that it hits hard and stays there. if the bendix walks back, or is weak engaging, it's bad. good luck, let us know how it goes.

 

[Link12]

Mine has been doing the same thing. I was hoping the grease was just thick on bendix drive being that it has been so cold here but I am afraid it is time to replace it as it now does it on warmer mornings. It will only do it when you first turn it over of a morning. Once the engine warms up it never does it again until it cools completely back off. I have been looking on Rock Auto at rebuilt Denso units. Anyone ever run the AC Delco new starters they have?

 

[phattyduck]

If you are getting the 'whirrrrr' of the starter motor without the engine turning, the starter is setup wrong. The motor should not be able to run until the plunger fully seats the starter gear on the flywheel (or flexplate, if auto).

You'll need to pull the starter and check the teeth on the starter and the teeth on the flywheel to make sure they aren't messed up. Cross your fingers that the flywheel isn't ruined...

And go get a Denso reman starter.

In the future, it would be better to get EVERY starter contact and solenoid that might fit (maybe $50 of parts?) and then put in what fits and toss the rest.

-Charlie

 

[Buckaroo]

I agree that the whirring means that the starter/solenoid is working and that the gears on the starter & flywheel are not engaging. When it finally "catches" for a moment at the end, the gears are positioned to engage for the next try. As pointed out by Phatty, this could be some missing teeth on the flywheel and/or starter or maybe an alignment issue if the starter was not installed correctly....that is where I would start. Next time you get the whirring without the catch at the end, leave it in gear and give it a little shove which should move the flywheel a bit - see if it starts normally.

Also, I believe that the starter is case grounded which means that the ground is provided by contact between the case of the starter and the engine. If you pull the starter to check alignment, make sure you have a good, clean mounting surface on both the engine & starter and the mounting bolts are tight. You may even want to sand some of the paint off of the starter at the points of contact - sometimes applied very heavy on re-man'd starters.

Buckaroo

 

[jgue467]

In the future, it would be better to get EVERY starter contact and solenoid that might fit (maybe $50 of parts?) and then put in what fits and toss the rest.

-Charlie

All that is needed is the curved one: https://www.amazon.com/OES-Genuine-...ords=2001+toyota+4runner+starter+contacts+kit

:cowboy:

 

[jgue467]

...


Also, I believe that the starter is case grounded which means that the ground is provided by contact between the case of the starter and the engine. ...

Buckaroo

They have 2 wires, hot and ground attaching to the starter. :cowboy:

 

[Buckaroo]

They have 2 wires, hot and ground attaching to the starter. :cowboy:

So now you went and made me look at the wiring diagram and I'm supposed to be painting - my wife is going to give me hell when she gets home and there has been no progress!

I think I am seeing that the ground wire runs to the solenoid but the starter motor itself is case grounded. With a marginal case ground, you could fire up the solenoid (clicking) but the motor would not turn. Do I have that right?

Buckaroo

 

[RAD4Runner]

...I think I am seeing that the ground wire runs to the solenoid ...

Unless your generation has a special starter, there is no ground wire to the solenoid.
The thick wire running from solenoid terminal stud/screw to starter motor carries high current from the contact to the starter motor. The other thick wire connected to the other stud terminal goes to battery positive. Both solenoid and motor use block ground.

With a marginal case ground, you could fire up the solenoid (clicking) but the motor would not turn. Do I have that right?

YUP! Solenoid takes only about 12 amps, starter motor over 100amps.

 

[phattyduck]

They have 2 wires, hot and ground attaching to the starter. :cowboy:

No, ground is supplied through the engine/transmission. The smaller wire is power for the solenoid that engages the starter. The larger wire is power to the starter motor.

-Charlie