Strong vibration's 65+, had inspection done. Thoughts?

99Runnr

New member
I had asked before in regard to a vibration. I searched again before making this and didn't want to clutter that thread with a different perspective on things.. so here goes again.

PROBLEM: Driving 65+ mph, vibrations are very pronounced, from the rear of the vehicle. It is strong enough to slightly "shimmy" the door panel/truck through the whole cab. Accelerating further seems to enhance the vibration slightly. I didn't go past 75, but it wasn't going away.

The shifter handle (manual trans) and t-case handle, both have minimal vibrations under all conditions versus what the rest of the truck is going through.

I am mechanically able, but I'm a backyard mechanic. Thing's like this eat me up due to inexperience and when they don't make sense, I'm chasing my tail. Combined with 6 weeks now of bronchitis, I had it inspected, details below;

Driveshaft was clocked after initial re-assembly post clutch job. No change.

Drivetrain was inspected. Got a clean bill of health. In gear, on the ground, my quick test revealed no play at all in the u-joints. Roughly 1/8 turn on the driveshaft before thing's tightened up. Didn't seem excessive. Driving truck, getting on and off the gas, I can hear a faint clunk after truck transitions to deceleration. Nothing otherwise. This seems mostly like normal truck mechanical noises. Perhaps the pinion backlash is excessive? What is normal there?

I had the rear wheels rebalanced using the proper Toyota hub at discount tire. They were off 1.5 oz, but it wanted a lot of weight. 6 oz in total on the drivers side rear. The tires are new, 2k miles new. Cooper A/T stuff in stock size. Rebalancing did nothing for my freeway symptoms.

I have someone telling me they are 99% sure it's runout on the wheel/tire or both after describing the freeway experience. Does anyone else have insight on this? I want to get this done right and 4 hours of shop inspection/brain storming got me nowhere this weekend. It honestly almost feels worse after the wheel balancing.
 
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I've had nothing but problems from Discount Tire. First set of Cooper ATP's couldn't balance. Cupped from bouncing. They prorated them ( cost me 250.00) and sent me a set of Cooper AT3's. Had them balanced at 4 different shops all using the proper hub and aligned once. Can't balance them...too much road force. 3000 miles on them. Discount said they would replace them one more time but I would have to pay for mounting and balancing AGAIN! I said forget it. When they wear out I'll buy from someone else. BTW..Cooper AT3's on my Tundra bought from another vendor--No problems..balanced fine.
 
I've had nothing but problems from Discount Tire. First set of Cooper ATP's couldn't balance. Cupped from bouncing. They prorated them ( cost me 250.00) and sent me a set of Cooper AT3's. Had them balanced at 4 different shops all using the proper hub and aligned once. Can't balance them...too much road force. 3000 miles on them. Discount said they would replace them one more time but I would have to pay for mounting and balancing AGAIN! I said forget it. When they wear out I'll buy from someone else. BTW..Cooper AT3's on my Tundra bought from another vendor--No problems..balanced fine.

So you went to Discount and 4 different shops and none of they could fix your vibrations. Sounds like its not Discounts fault to me lol something else is wrong with your car, and its not your tires.


To the OP, 6 oz is A LOT of weight for stock size tire. Normal would be around 1-3 oz. Have you tried rotating your tires to see if the vibrations moves around? Also are you running steel or alloy wheels?
 
So you went to Discount and 4 different shops and none of they could fix your vibrations. Sounds like its not Discounts fault to me lol something else is wrong with your car, and its not your tires.


To the OP, 6 oz is A LOT of weight for stock size tire. Normal would be around 1-3 oz. Have you tried rotating your tires to see if the vibrations moves around? Also are you running steel or alloy wheels?

They are alloy wheels from discount tire direct lol. 16x8 rims, the level 8 rims. Pretty damn popular from what I've seen. Never heard of anyone having an issue.

I was vaguely told 6 oz is a lot of weight as well. I will give rotating them a shot because I'm doing my tundra brake upgrade soon as I feel up to working on the truck some. Will be easy to swap wheels.

They are Cooper Discovery tires actually. Just looked at them, pretty docile tire, they are pretty awful in rain already so if they need to go, I won't be too upset.
 
Have you check the U-joints in your drive shaft. If the floor vibrates, then it is most likely the drive shaft. Check the rear most U-joint.
 
I am not an expert but my 65MPH+ vibrations went away after I did the following;
lubed driveshaft
replaced rear u-joint
replaced rear lower control arm bushings
replaced front lower control arm bushings

I did not do everything at once but each step seemed to help a bit.
 
U-joints and driveline were inspected. Granted people may miss things, but if you were in the business of making money, I'd think they would find something if it looked sketchy.

My control arm bushings look good, shocks are brand new, u-joints felt tight/no clunks/inspection checked out.

No issues with the front end, it's all new as well. Balljoints, Inner/outer TRE's, shocks, alignment.

I am going to dig into the one wheel that took a substantial amount of weight tomorrow at discount a second time. Perhaps I'll just get the BFG AT's I wanted should this tire be screwed up. I'll update as I check things off the list for anyone interested.

Thanks for the feedback.
 
I have to disagree with the 6oz being a lot of weight. Not for an aftermarket wheel. I routinely see 9-14 oz on aftermarket wheels. And the more aggressive tires can be worse. I visit tire shops for a living and even some OEM set ups can take 4-8 oz if you are balancing dynamically.

Bottom line here is if your tire is balanced, it doesn't matter how much weight is on there. If it's not balanced, then you could have a vibration issue there.
 
I have about 4 oz on one of my stock rims. But my tires are ruined because the PO had a really sloppy suspension on it, balancing was a last ditch effort to get rid of some bad steering wheel shakes that actually worked.
 
So you went to Discount and 4 different shops and none of they could fix your vibrations. Sounds like its not Discounts fault to me lol something else is wrong with your car, and its not your tires.


To the OP, 6 oz is A LOT of weight for stock size tire. Normal would be around 1-3 oz. Have you tried rotating your tires to see if the vibrations moves around? Also are you running steel or alloy wheels?

I beg to differ with you. It is the tires. They cannot balance the road force out of them. My t4r is in perfect mechanical condition.
 
Have an appointment in an hour for the manager at discount to check out the issue here. They have been very helpful thus far, as was discount direct with my wheels.

If they don't find or see the runout in this tire, I am only having this kind of weight with 1 of 4 wheels. So we are setting sights on that particular wheel today. If all this comes clean, I am going to have one more shop do a driveline inspection.

My bushings seem ok, but I will order energy suspension replacements for good measure. Running out of idea's here. This truck runs great, everything feels good and tight driving under 65 mph lol.

I am just anal about my vehicles. I will fix this or it will eat at me until I do. Which BTW, did the tundra brake upgrade last night. That went, less then smoothly, but it's done and stops great.
 
I beg to differ with you. It is the tires. They cannot balance the road force out of them. My t4r is in perfect mechanical condition.

It "could" be the tires, this is true. But it could be the wheel, and it could be poor quality equipment, or operator error.

Road force is just a made up term, for marketing, by a company in St. Louis. It isn't an industry standard and there is no engineering standard. The proper term is Radial Force Variation. All tires have some RFV, which is ok as long as it is within the acceptable standard, usually expressed as a weight. When the peak of the variation occurs is how it is diagnosed, the tire has a waveform signature, and the first harmonic is the most likely cause, but the 2nd harmonic can also come in to play. No doubt some tires will have too much, and should be scrapped, but aren't.

Sadly tire mounting personnel are rarely trained properly, and very few shops have equipment to properly diagnose a problem tire. Match mounting solves a lot, but even that doesn't happen often enough.

Here are some Wiki pages about RFV and Tire uniformity(including harmonics).

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Radial_force_variation

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tire_uniformity

The company in St. Louis has a balancer that claims to help, but it's complicated to use and a pain too. The "other guys" have one too, it's call an RFV2000, no rollers, but better results. Ask for it!

:phone:
 
from experience, once a tire is NOT balanced correctly the first time, all subsequent balances are a pipe dream. its already OOR aka out of round already. a unbead and rebead might help.

what i would do is watch them balance the tire. see if the tire wobbled up and down in the machine while it is spinning. if it does its out of round. check the wheels to see if they are bent. another thing is to try and run the truck on the lift with the tires on and all 4 wheels off the ground. might be another issue.
 
So the one requiring lots of weight is out of round. Rim spins true. I got a donor tire and it is slightly better but still there. He said the passenger rear wheel is about 50% as bad and rebalanced that for the third time in total. Both rears were done by the manager today and he was their go to guy for these types of problems.

The vibration is improved slightly. The symptoms are the same. A low rumble occurs (like driving over packed gravel) as soon as I hit 65. The noise persists to 70, I wasn't able to hit a higher speed tonight. The rumble intensifies slightly once in neutral. It completely disappears in neutral below ~58 mph. The vibrations completely cease in the truck below ~63 mph once they have started.

I am going to get my new tires tomorrow, replace rlca bushings. If the vibrations persist I will get new ujoints or remove it and rake it to a shop. If that doesn't fix it, I'm getting rid of the rear end with the glorious elocker I won't use. If that fails, my video burning it to the ground will be on youtube.
 
I didn't read your whole thread but I chased a vibrations at that speed for over a year. my biggest fix ended up being the rear driveshaft ujoint. I had it inspected as well and was told it was fine. I looked up the cost and when I realized they were only ~20 buxks I decided to put a new one in and it significantly helped. These trucks are old so it's probably coming from multiple worn sources so until you have replaced every suspension link and rebuilt the driveline some vibration will likely always be present. So start with the cheap parts!
 
Steve's got it, these issues are normally a plethora of things, not one simple issue. You've noticed it's improved with the new tire but there's still sound. I'm yet to hear an out of balance tires make noises but the driveline sure will. Keep chasing it and you'll eventually take it out.

For me it was:

Ball Joints
Sway Bar Bushings
New suspension (coils & shocks/struts)
Steering rack bushings
Tire Balance (this helped the most)
Tie Rods
New steering rack (completely gone)

All of these parts were worn considerably and had play or had leaks/tears leading to their failure.
 
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It "could" be the tires, this is true. But it could be the wheel, and it could be poor quality equipment, or operator error.

Road force is just a made up term, for marketing, by a company in St. Louis. It isn't an industry standard and there is no engineering standard. The proper term is Radial Force Variation. All tires have some RFV, which is ok as long as it is within the acceptable standard, usually expressed as a weight. When the peak of the variation occurs is how it is diagnosed, the tire has a waveform signature, and the first harmonic is the most likely cause, but the 2nd harmonic can also come in to play. No doubt some tires will have too much, and should be scrapped, but aren't.

Sadly tire mounting personnel are rarely trained properly, and very few shops have equipment to properly diagnose a problem tire. Match mounting solves a lot, but even that doesn't happen often enough.

Here are some Wiki pages about RFV and Tire uniformity(including harmonics).

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Radial_force_variation

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tire_uniformity

The company in St. Louis has a balancer that claims to help, but it's complicated to use and a pain too. The "other guys" have one too, it's call an RFV2000, no rollers, but better results. Ask for it!

:phone:

2 of the 4 shops I went to was a Toyota dealership. They charged me for the first balance and not for the second thinking the tires might have thrown a weight. After the second balance they informed me I needed a new set of tires. I only have 3600 miles on them. Regarding the wheels, I agree they could be out of round some, but why didn't I have any balance problems before using tires from Discount Tire? This is not a mechanical or suspension problem, it is a tire problem.
 
I have energy suspension bushings for the rear sway bar. Hadn't installed them but I'll throw them in.

Rear lca bushing and u joint ordered. I know about replacing cheap stuff all too well with this truck. It's at 219k roughly so it's when a lot of this crap starts going and hasn't been touched before.

I'll make a valiant effort to fix it for sure. I'm not spending more then I paid to chase my tail on parts though. I'm pulling the trigger on the tires cause I hated what I had and it seems like a fair enough time with cold weather coming to get real tires
 
Regarding the clunk coming off the gas, it's normal. That sounds like my first, and current 4runner. I wouldn't worry about that.

I had a shake that showed up at 60-65 mph - was more pronounced when the truck was cold. Turned out it was the steering rack. Replacing fixed the issue.
 

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