Subaru Outback AWD

[CHRIS240]

I just got home From South Tahoe , on the way back a Subaru Outback AWD ,infront of me was totally losed control and went on to incoming lane and hit a guard rail , lucky there was no car .
4Runner was doing it job well in snow weather . The Subaru driver constanly step on the brake the hold way , and he went too fast on the curve , and there he went . It make me not to driver in the Snow, especially at night .. What do you guy think ?:awais:

 

[HiluxSurfBMX]

I think he didn't know how to drive. This is my first 4x4 and I never went off the road in any of my old trucks. Mind you I'm from upstate NY.

 

[Expat]

As they would say in racing circles - its all in the driver:

 

[CHRIS240]

Yes ,it All about the Driver !!! . But also the car to .

 

[EDGE]

Nothing unusual, I've seen plenty of vehicles slide off the road in snow, it don't matter what you have, 4wd or awd is awesome but to much speed and a bend or corner and you will soon learn an expensive lession.

It should be required to take your vehicle after purchase out to a parking lot, rain and snow covered and test out it's abulity, I've taken all my vehicles to empty lots and know very well how they handle, so much so that in snow when cars are tailgating I will run stop signs, I know they can't stop so why should I let them hit me.

I think of all the people who can't drive when the roads and weather are perfect, then just add bad conditions, I've had 1 to many close calls with cars coming towards me

 

[Thai]

Most Subaru cars/wagons do not have stability control (VSC)...only the top-of-the-line have it.

 

[abin]

Luckly, this guy was not driving a 4Runner...

 

[ToolmanJohn]

Traction

Traction, or lack of it. What kind of tires, what kind of road surface, what kind of curve, how fast the vehicle is going, how skillful the driver are all factors in losing control.

Just because it's 4wd or AWD doesn't mean a thing if there's no traction. Too much speed in a curve can't easily be countered by the driver. Once the vehicle starts sliding, there is almost no chance of recovery because inertia will send the vehicle in the direction it was travelling at the time it lost traction.

People will say "steer into the skid". It won't help if there's no traction. The vehicle will continue to slide until it slows enough to regain traction. If someone enters a curve much too fast, it's over, that vehicle is heading off the road and nothing will stop it.

VSC won't save you unless the car regains traction. Period. try it in an empty lot with no-one else around. Drive straight then turn suddenly. VSC will kick in, but you will slide sideways out of control. Too fast is too fast.

 

[Sac State]

Its is the tires and speed/condition of the road. I've driven the I-80, Hwy 50 corridor many times during snow storms. There are many sharp curves/grades and black ice. Not to mention the horde of wannabe ricers racing up/down the hill at 95mph+.

Our Forester tracks very well in the snow/slush. We switched the tires to Michelin Harmony. The Forester driving position sits low to the ground and with a Boxer engine perfectly centered for maximum weight distribution, the trucklet really handles well.

Again, I say it was the tires because I had a spinout when I had the stock Dunflop AT20's on my Runner. These tires aren't too bad on dry roads, but any slush buildup and away I went.

So I don't think it was a generalized Subaru AWD characteristic. I've actually pulled out a Jeep with an Outback before. :arrow:

 

[Thai]

Re: Traction

VSC won't save you unless the car regains traction. Period. try it in an empty lot with no-one else around. Drive straight then turn suddenly. VSC will kick in, but you will slide sideways out of control. Too fast is too fast.

True...but, if you're taking a curve, then VSC can react quicker than most driver. VSC can sense a slide before the actual slide based on individual wheel sensor...so, in theory, it can brake the appropriate wheel(s) and de-throttle the engine. So, the car will be forced to slow down and regain traction on the wheel(s) that have lost it.

Of course, VSC does need to have at least 1-2 wheels with traction for it to work. But, the point of VSC is to hopefully PREVENT you from losing control by reacting to road condition.

 

[ToolmanJohn]

Thai, Try it, find the limits

I know you live in an area where you really can't test this in snow but bear with me.

Unless you are travelling at JUST BARELY the speed neccessary to lose traction, you'll slide out. On snow covered roads, if you are travelling too fast, once the slide begins, the yaw sensor (part of the VSC system) will TRY to brake the wheel that's lost traction to regain the position you have your steering wheel at, but unless you are travelling at BARELY over the speed to break traction, you will slide.

I find it VERY EASY to spin the 4runner, with 4WD engaged, from a standstill. The VSC TRIES to correct, but unless I take IMMEDIATE steps to counter the slide, the truck fishtails oh so easy. VSC will not save a driver going to fast for road conditions. Especially if you are on the gas accelerating. VSC is for all practical purposes useless. I find it much safer to drive at a reasonable speed for road conditions. It's good at detection for the rear going sideways on sand cover corners when turning, and correcting, but that's about it.

Snow like crazy today. I was PASSED by a newer model Cadillac today while on a long downhill. I was driving like a geezer, because there are a lot of side streets and driveways on this road, all of which slope down to the road because of the hills. I was worried that a car might not be able to stop if trying to slow down at a stop.

Sure enough, just as the Caddy was about 200 feet in front of me and accellerating, ne nearly nailed a car that slid too far past the end of his driveway. The Caddy went sideways at about 35mph in a 40mph speed limit zone as he swerved to avoid. Of course, that Caddy had VSC, but as soon as he was into his emergency turn, that was it, loss of traction, and sideways. He ended up stopping backwards, on the other side of the road, against the curb. SOOO lucky there were no cars coming from the other direction.

 

[ToolmanJohn]

Snow on the roads

Drive slow on roads like these. VSC won't save you.

 

[footracer]

It was probably an automatic tranny outback. The manual tranny in my WRX keeps me from having to touch the brakes in most circumstances. The driver probably just put it in "D" for "go" and went...

 

[CHRIS240]

Oh Also , Behind me was a Escalide EXT with 22 ..

 

[CHRIS240]

I think Is really important if you keep your speed steady

 

[MicaBlue03]

VSC has its limits but . . .

ToolmanJohn, are you sure your VSC is working ok? I've experimented a bunch on slick parking lots (and only a little on slick roads, for obvious reasons) and can't duplicate what you mention. If I floor it from a standstill in either 2WD or 4WD and don't whip the steering wheel back and forth a bunch it just moves forward with the normal braking and dethrottling. It's just no drama at all, moving straight ahead.

I agree that VSC can't save you when there is just not enough traction, but it has a couple of advantages over us mere humans. It can do things the cars don't normally allow us to do, such as braking one or both wheels on a side. It can also react faster than we can in some situations. It tends to help in avoiding oversteer and the sideways sliding that can produce deadly rollovers.

 

[EDGE]

It was probably an automatic tranny outback. The manual tranny in my WRX keeps me from having to touch the brakes in most circumstances. The driver probably just put it in "D" for "go" and went...

I don't think the transmission has anything to do with loosing traction cause your going to fast

 

[footracer]

The tranny has a lot to do with weight dispersion of the subaru. The original post said the guy was constantly hitting the break. If he's geared down... no breaks needed, etc. If he hits the break in the middle of the turn, the weight dives to the front wheels of the car and woosh! into the guardrail.

 

[EDGE]

It has to do with the driver, you yourself said you have no problem with your 5speed, would you crash in the snow I don't think so, it's your level of experience, obviously the guy in the subaru had none, what ever trans was in it, same goes for all those morons riding around on 20's with racing slicks complaining the 4wheel drive sucks

 

[Hitman]

Re: Thai, Try it, find the limits

.... VSC is for all practical purposes useless. I find it much safer to drive at a reasonable speed for road conditions. It's good at detection for the rear going sideways on sand cover corners when turning, and correcting, but that's about it....

Of course it is always safer to drive responsibly. VSC isn't intended to keep idiots from smashing guardrails because they're driving recklessly. It is intended as more of a safety net for unexpected circumstances.

I've experimented quite a bit in the snow this winter and I have been able to get the vehicle to slide with the front wheels at full lock. But that required more speed that I would be travelling under those conditions--and a hard jab of the brakes and quickly turning the steering wheel. In other words, yes, I can intentionally do it, but in the real world, it probably would never have happened that way.

On the flip side, I have intentionally took a turn too fast on a snow-covered road and had the VSC kick in and prevent the vehicle from losing control. Again, this was at reasonable speeds and I guess there was enough traction available, despite a fully snow-covered road.

But VSC is useful for much more than snow-- it actually works very well on dry roads also. I remember one time when I was driving my 4Runner on the highway and took the exit ramp too fast (I take this particular ramp at high speed in my M3 without any problems-- must have been a brain fart...didn't realize that I was in my 4Runner) and the stability control system stepped in before I had to deal with an out-of-control 4Runner! I can definitely say that it did its job in that situation....