Suggestion: Make a standard policy documenting vehicle mods

[T.A.Kirk]

One of the joys of buying a used vehicle is trying to puzzle through what the previous owner may or may not have done to it during their ownership. Little things like swapping out the headlights for HID, installing the Tundra brake upgrade, stuff like that.

What makes it really difficult and aggravating for a new owner is to find that a mod was done, and then have to puzzle through what the PO did, where they got the parts, and what specifically was installed. Good luck figuring out the supplier for a lot of this stuff, especially if the manuals and so forth were not retained.

And, yeah... It would be pretty much par for the course if a half-ass PO wouldn't bother with making any notes about mods in the first damn place, but if there were an industry-wide standard, then we could at least make a beginning at the issue.

I'd suggest maybe a log-book style affair, kept with and maybe attached to the owner's manual, something that a mechanic or 4X4 shop would make their modification notes to, and have everybody in the industry standardize on the size of the things to make that workable.

Like as not, I get that there are a bunch of people out there who just ain't going to bother, but it'd be nice if there were at least a framework to work within, to make it easier. It'd also be a damn good selling point, were you to have such a thing to point at when going to sell the rig--"Hey, looky here... I logged all the work and modifications, and here are the supporting documents all properly included in the vehicle log...".

King Canute, and all that... I get it. But, geez... Wouldn't it be nice if people actually did something like this? And, if we had an industry-wide standard operating procedure?

 

[cblock406]

The build threads on car forums serve as pretty good record of maintenance and modifications.

 

[T.A.Kirk]

The build threads on car forums serve as pretty good record of maintenance and modifications.

If you're lucky enough to buy the rig the owner is doing that with... I'm thinking we ought to have something as an industry-wide policy, for shops and people doing their own work.

Say that everybody took the format for the owner's manual, size-wise, and then made all their manuals to match that, and then Toyota, or whoever, made their manual in such a way that you could put the whole thing into a binder which would hold everything. Binders, of course, also being aftermarket. Or, not.

As well, it'd be smart if we had some SOP of maybe marking a specific spot on the vehicle to denote a mod had been made... Maybe under the trunk, a line drawing of the vehicle, and you put a paint dot on it where the mod was made?

 

[absalom]

Interesting thought, but I wouldn't limit it to just 3rd gen 4runners!

 

[T.A.Kirk]

Interesting thought, but I wouldn't limit it to just 3rd gen 4runners!

I'm not. I just happen to own one, and trucks of that vintage have generally been through at least one owner, and have mods...

Undoubtedly, the majority aren't gonna do this stuff, but if there were a general sort of SOP for doing documentation, and the industry were to support it by making their manuals/documents to a set size that would fit in with the owner's manual...? Maybe more would.

Just an idea.

 

[4Runner fun]

log

Are you suggesting a governing body mandate a log of everything done to said used vehicle?

If you are then...….

NO, No thank you. The last thing I'd be interested in is having someone look over our collective shoulder to document what we are doing. The next step is setting standards as to what we can and can't do based on someone else's opinion. As this forum shows, there are many ideas of what the perfect rig is.

I would say that's you're due diligence in shopping for a used car, a better documented car commands a higher price.
I shopped many 3rd gens, many with less mileage but obvious problems. I finally settled on a truck with higher mileage and a higher price due to the fact it came with much better documentation.

but if your just suggesting people on the forum start a book so when they sell they can pass along, that might be an idea.
I usually save every receipt, and owners manual to pass along. It usually helps bolster my higher asking price. and has served me well.


I don't really want someone in my business thank you.

 

[T.A.Kirk]

Are you suggesting a governing body mandate a log of everything done to said used vehicle?

If you are then...….

NO, No thank you. The last thing I'd be interested in is having someone look over our collective shoulder to document what we are doing. The next step is setting standards as to what we can and can't do based on someone else's opinion. As this forum shows, there are many ideas of what the perfect rig is.

I would say that's you're due diligence in shopping for a used car, a better documented car commands a higher price.
I shopped many 3rd gens, many with less mileage but obvious problems. I finally settled on a truck with higher mileage and a higher price due to the fact it came with much better documentation.

but if your just suggesting people on the forum start a book so when they sell they can pass along, that might be an idea.
I usually save every receipt, and owners manual to pass along. It usually helps bolster my higher asking price. and has served me well.


I don't really want someone in my business thank you.

I don't know where you get that I'm suggesting "someone" mandate this, because I think it's pretty clear that I'm not. What I'm suggesting is that there should be an established framework or SOP for recording and documenting the changes from factory-standard. Toyota and other manufacturers could/should get on board with making it easier.

If there were a "log book"-style affair included or available to use from the factory, then the guys who cared could use that log of work to establish what changes have been made to the vehicle from production.

It would also help establish whether or not specific new-version parts have been installed. A case in point would be off my FZJ-80, where they changed the steering arm studs from hex-head to the new 12-point style so that you could torque those in better and easily check them during maintenance.

There's a lot of stuff that needs documenting past just the usual maintenance check-offs. For example, if you logged this stuff, you'd know that this particular engine has a habit of eating specific sensors, and maybe know to keep more of an eye on them after you bought the rig.

I'm basically tired of the "magical mystery tour" as I try to figure out what the hell the PO did to this poor thing. Some of the work that's been done classifies as mechanical abuse, and I find myself wishing for a vehicular version of the freakin' ASPCA...

What I really need is a "truck whisperer"... "What did they do to you, girl...? Who touched you in the bad places, and put the wrong fasteners back in...? What did they remove...?".

Unfortunately, the technology for that is WAAAAAY off. On-board AI, that tells you who/what/when something was done...? That'd be sweet. It'd also be a serious discourager for those hacks that don't do things right--"Him. He did it... That bastard, John Doe, and he did it in his so-called "service center"... That wasn't an oil change; it was mechanical rape!!!".:jk:

 

[Jungoes]

Too much reading required on this thread ....

*goes back to excel spread sheet with maintenance log*

 

[weekendclimber]

https://www.toyota.com/owners/

 

[theesotericone]

Where's the larger tires, 5.29, F/R ARB Locker, ARB Compressor, Dual Case, F/R Bumper, Winch, After Market AUX Panel checkbox? lol

If your buying the rig it's up to you, the buyer, to inquire about these things. If the owner can't, or won't, supply that info walk away. To try and get people to document what they did via a "industry standard" log is a nice utopian idea but it will never be a reality.

 

[T.A.Kirk]

https://www.toyota.com/owners/

It's nice, but show me where it helps anyone document the changes made to your specific vehicle over the years, especially stuff that's not Toyota. Y'know, like most of the stuff in your sig line?

 

[T.A.Kirk]

Where's the larger tires, 5.29, F/R ARB Locker, ARB Compressor, Dual Case, F/R Bumper, Winch, After Market AUX Panel checkbox? lol

If your buying the rig it's up to you, the buyer, to inquire about these things. If the owner can't, or won't, supply that info walk away. To try and get people to document what they did via a "industry standard" log is a nice utopian idea but it will never be a reality.

And, it won't be a "reality" because nobody wants to set up a framework for it. Or, apparently, discuss it realistically.

 

[weekendclimber]

It's nice, but show me where it helps anyone document the changes made to your specific vehicle over the years, especially stuff that's not Toyota. Y'know, like most of the stuff in your sig line?

I don't have to prove anything to you, but I've documented it all along with the mileages and dates that it was done at.

 

[theesotericone]

And, it won't be a "reality" because nobody wants to set up a framework for it. Or, apparently, discuss it realistically.

It won't be a reality because not many are going to take the time to do it even if there is a framework in place IMO.

 

[4Runner4Leon]

*goes back to excel spread sheet with maintenance log*

Precisely what I've done for years with all my vehicles :thumb:

In the past I used to save all receipts and instructions for things I bought in a big manila folder, and hand them over to the buyer. But now most of what I buy is online, and I'm too lazy to print out the receipts and instructions. It's all in my email inbox somewhere.

 

[Ifirefight]

I have kept track of every oil change,tire rotation,brake job,fluid change,part change any and all maintenance on pretty much every vehicle,lawn mower,ATV,UTV,motorcycle I have ever owned. I tend to buy my vehicles new and keep them a very long time. I recorded this information for myself mostly but I suppose it comes in handy when you do sell your vehicle. I’m anal and type A, so I get it...but not everyone is like that...(and by the way, I wouldn’t wish it on anyone)


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[128keaton]

Okay this thread has inspired me to make a word document modeled off the TSB Documents. Would be cool if you maintained your own private repository of documented changes to your car, that way if you pass on your vehicle, you have a fat stack of documentation for the new owner.

http://stuff.128keaton.com/toyota-tech/tmd-template.docx

Here is an example I typed up for a horn swap I did:
TMD Document Example by keaton.burleson, on Flickr

 

[4Runner fun]

One of the joys of buying a used vehicle is trying to puzzle through what the previous owner may or may not have done to it during their ownership. Little things like swapping out the headlights for HID, installing the Tundra brake upgrade, stuff like that.

What makes it really difficult and aggravating for a new owner is to find that a mod was done, and then have to puzzle through what the PO did, where they got the parts, and what specifically was installed. Good luck figuring out the supplier for a lot of this stuff, especially if the manuals and so forth were not retained.

And, yeah... It would be pretty much par for the course if a half-ass PO wouldn't bother with making any notes about mods in the first damn place, but if there were an industry-wide standard, then we could at least make a beginning at the issue.

I'd suggest maybe a log-book style affair, kept with and maybe attached to the owner's manual, something that a mechanic or 4X4 shop would make their modification notes to, and have everybody in the industry standardize on the size of the things to make that workable.

Like as not, I get that there are a bunch of people out there who just ain't going to bother, but it'd be nice if there were at least a framework to work within, to make it easier. It'd also be a damn good selling point, were you to have such a thing to point at when going to sell the rig--"Hey, looky here... I logged all the work and modifications, and here are the supporting documents all properly included in the vehicle log...".

King Canute, and all that... I get it. But, geez... Wouldn't it be nice if people actually did something like this? And, if we had an industry-wide standard operating procedure?

I didn't mean to sound like I was arguing , but those three statements sound like a database of sorts, also you mentioned a standardization of upgrades, If owners are doing things and logging them privately how would enthusiasts or shop owners know this data unless you publish it publicly.

 

[T.A.Kirk]

Okay this thread has inspired me to make a word document modeled off the TSB Documents. Would be cool if you maintained your own private repository of documented changes to your car, that way if you pass on your vehicle, you have a fat stack of documentation for the new owner.

http://stuff.128keaton.com/toyota-tech/tmd-template.docx

Here is an example I typed up for a horn swap I did:
TMD Document Example by keaton.burleson, on Flickr

That's more like it... We need a template, and maybe some way of marking the vehicle itself to alert people working on them.

One of the issues with things like doing the Tundra Brake Upgrade is that if you or, say, your significant other, ever has to let the dealer or someone else work on the vehicle, whoever is actually turning the wrenches on it is going to be going "WTF...?!?!?! This ain't right...".

Don't have a way of alerting people to this sort of thing, and you may well wind up with someone "doing you a favor...", and returning your truck to stock. "Oh, my gawd, baby... I took your truck in to the dealer, and they said you had the wrong brakes on there!! You could have died!!".

Documentation could be a lifesaver, in such situations. Or, at least, a relationship-saver...

 

[T.A.Kirk]

I didn't mean to sound like I was arguing , but those three statements sound like a database of sorts, also you mentioned a standardization of upgrades, If owners are doing things and logging them privately how would enthusiasts or shop owners know this data unless you publish it publicly.

All I'm suggesting is that there ought to be something standard, so that the guy in the dealer who is working on your truck knows to look somewhere standard for mods...

I mention the Tundra Brake Upgrade, which is pretty common, as an example--Go out of town for some reason, leave the 4Runner with the wife/girlfriend/kid brother, and have them discover a need to take it somewhere for work...? Then, have the dealer/independent shop find the Tundra brake stuff on the truck, go "WTF, this ain't right...", and sell them new 4Runner brakes?

Yeah, it's not really a likely thing, but... I'd still suggest that if we had an agreement between everyone, owners, manufacturers, and installers, stuff like that would be precluded. Not to mention, you'd cut down on the diagnostic time for these things, when someone goes to work on the vehicle.