Sulphur TSB on 03-04 4runners

[Johnnytoyota]

No help from Dealer at all

Well I finally got my 4Runner in on 10/19/2004 to get my problem fixed with the loss of performance since the sulfur TSB was done. After having it for 2 1/2 hours they told me they found no fault codes or check engine lights on and everything was just FINE!!!
I proceeded to tell them (along with my wife), that the decrease in performance and the loss of over 2mpg was not acceptable. They told me there is nothing else they can do, but call Toyota in California and see if there has been a problem. So I leave the dealership and they call me 10 minutes later, stating that they called California and there have been no reports of loss of performance or gas mileage. I find it hard to believe that they got through to Toyota in California and talked over my situation wih them in 10 minutes. So now I have called Toyota customer care and they have sent my concerns to the customer relations manager at the dealership. Why do I feel like a ping pong ball????
What really ticked me off the most, was that the service department did not even attempt to try reprogramming the computer at all. They answer is NO FAULT CODES- EVERTHING IS OK!! Well I work for a dealership and know that is not true all the time. Sometimes you have to look at everything that is going on with a vehicle and troubleshoot yourself. We all know you can't depend on computers all the time. The other thing that makes me mad is that the technician only drove the vehicle for 1 mile. I'm sorry but that is not a test drive to me. Why didn't they ask me to go for a test drive with them? I'm fed up right now!!! Is it too much to ask for the performance and gas mileage back when you have paid over $30,000.00 for a vehicle?? I don't think so.
I bought my 4Runner with confidence and was happy with it until I had this damn TSB done. I could have gotten a steal on a Dodge, but I did not want it nor do I want it. If Toyota can't fix this problem, I'm ready to give them the 4Runner back. I can't afford to be getting only 14mpg when they advertise 15-19mpg and I was getting 18.7-19.4 before the TSB of course.
My advice for anyone wanting to get the sulfur TSB done. DON'T DO IT, YOU WILL REGRET IT!! Deal with the smell.:cursin:

 

[sharp4runr]

I had the TSB done with no visible change in gas mileage. I have the V6, but I think you have the V8. I know the CATS are different and pretty positive the ECU programming is different as well.

Good luck with getting your truck fixed.

 

[live4swell]

Now that this is all being mentioned I feel the same way, I thought it was my new tires (which i know wouldnt have anything to do with it) but after the TSB my truck feels a little more sluggish. So I agree with the performance decrease after the TSB.

 

[Johnnytoyota]

Finally, my 4Runner is back to normal

Just wanted to let you know the outcome with my dealer. After I contacted Toyota they had me work with the customer relations manager at the dealership. The lady spoke with wad very nice and concerened about my needs. She set up an appointment with the regional rep. from Toyota, to me with me and drive my 4Runner. I had a 10:30am appointment, but the service manager and Toyota rep. did a good job of basically ignoring me for over 1 hour. As I sat in the waiting room, growing impatient, I got up to see if the dealer had any '04 V8 4Runners on the lot. As I walked outside, I found that my 4Runner was not there. I thought this it was odd that they would test drive the vehicle without taking me with them. As I was walking back in, here comes the rep., his trainee, and the service manager in my 4Runner. After I was introduced to the rep., he tells me he drove the vehicle and does not see any problem with it. I asked him if he thought it might be important that the customer go with them on the test drive to explain their concerns, especially since this was a performance issue. He telss me it's neither here nor there. I can tell he already has a smart-ass attitude, so that in turn fuels my attitude I can get when people piss me off!! I told him the 4Runner was not even close to performing the way it did before the TSB was done. He tells me that he was driving a 4Runner demo about 5 months ago and it ran EXACTLY the same as mine was now. I told him (sarcasticly) that he had a pretty damn good memory if he could remember what his demo drove like 5 months ago!! I then told him my wife and I did some homework and found a dealer with a '04 V8, that we took for a test drive. I proceeded to hand him a 2 page report of our findings in gas mileage and performance. We even went so far as to compare shift points under different throttle percentages on the test drive vehicle vs. ours. It was true that the TSB changed shift points, reduced gas mileage, and de-tuned the engine performance. I told him this was not acceptable and I would not deal with the situtation. I then told him either put the vehicle back to what it was, or take the damn thing back and give me my money back. He then had a short discussion with the service manager. They agreeded to let me drive another V8 if there was one on the lot. Hey, did my homework again and told them they had 2 on the lot. Well we took one for a drive and it ran much better than mine. The rep. of course said he did not feel any difference. The service manager said he would swap computers and give that a shot. It took about 38 minutes but after they swapped them neither vehicle would start. The rep. came over to explain this and said they would have to call California. I thought it might have to do with the immobilizer key and found out I was right, after they called California. Well in the proccess, both vehicles shut down and I had to wait until the ECU would accept the new key.
The GOOD NEWS is that my baby is back. I left the dealership and drove it hard to set the ECU for my driving habits. The gad mileage has increased and the torque I remebered came back too. This thing actually pulls you up inclines and accelerates quickly. The rumble of the exhaust even sounds different when accelerating. Why did I have to go through so much aggravation (and gas) to get this taken care of?? This could have been resolved on my 2nd trip if they would have been willing to try swapping an ECU. Maybe they think I'm just a stupid customer, but I guees I'm not too stupid if I proved my point. Oh yeah, so far the sulfur smell is not back either. I'm keeping my fingers crossed.
My suggestion to anyone with the sulfur smell is to get the new convertor, but DO NOT have them perform the recalibration of the ECU. This is only my personal opinion and maybe I'm too anal, but I wanted to share this information with my fellow 4Runner members. Thanks for your help. Appreciate all the info and comments.
By the way, I'm going in on 11/16/04 to get my sunroof glass replaced because the weatherstrip is separating at the corners. I hope I won't regret it.

 

[dcampen]

I bought my 4Runner with confidence and was happy with it until I had this damn TSB done. I could have gotten a steal on a Dodge, but I did not want it nor do I want it.

Glad to hear that you are happier now.

On a side note, I used to have a 1990 Dodge sedan that had a strong sulfur exhaust stink. A few years later when my wife got a Camry she used to take great pleasure in pointing out that my Dodge stank but her Camry didn't.

 

[toy4smi]

sulfur smell

Am very glad to hear you got your truck back the way it should be. Sounds like if you hadnt done your homework and been prepared they would definately have shafted you big time . HUGE lesson for us all . We have had our 05 now 5 weeks with 8800 miles on it and the smell has DISAPEARED cdompletely . Am a vert happy camper . Good luck with the moonroof .

 

[TechWrench]

I have a friend who has the '03 V8 SR5 which he got a few months after I got my V6, and he just had the sulphur TSB done last Wednesday. According to him, he feels (by seat of the pants method of observation) that the engine is much peppier than before. He always complained that his V8 didn't seem any faster than my V6, and I would have to agree with him. But he now feels that his V8 feels like is should have all along. I haven't gotten a chance to drive his myself. No mileage figures to report yet.

 

[live4swell]

Johnnytoyota:

So they swapped ECU's, is there any way for them to just reprogram it? I definitely want it put back, I feel the performance degradation as well as the mileage being down. I have a feeling it will be a pain just like you saw though.

 

[scott78945]

I just had the sulfur bulletin fixed on my 2003 V6 Runner. They replaced all the necessary and I do find that the engine does seem to run differently. However, now my VSC Trac and VSC Off ligts on my dash will not go off. The dealership said that they tried to recalibrate the computer 3 times and it wouldn't take. They are now ordering me a new ECU I believe. So it has to go back again. I still have the constant knocking in my engine though. Supposedly, "normal" but that is a whole different story.

 

[Johnnytoyota]

Hey live4swell,
Sorry I did not respond to your question sooner, but it has been hectic for awhile.
I did ask the dealership if they could just reprogram the ECU but they told me thet could not. I also told them to order a new ECU and they said it would already have the new programming in it. I don't know if that was pure B.S. or the truth. I bought the service manuals and from what I read it seems to be the truth. I was fortunate enough to get this thing back in time while there were some '04's still left on the lot. They did the swap for me and I noticed an improvement right away. I trained this ECU from the moment I left the dealership lot and it seems to have worked so far.
I hope you can get yours straightened out, cause it is very frustrating when it is running poorly. Show the guys at the dealership these threads of complaints. I did just to try and get them to understand I was not the only one having this problem. Good luck and Have a Happy New Year.

 

[uberdog]

I had this TSB fix done on my '03 V8 and did not notice any change (positive or negative) in engine performance. Not sure about gas milles, since I don't track that (pretty much sux eiher way with the iForce V8).

After my ECM was flashed I drove the truck very hard while it was in "learning mode" and feel that it is just as responsive as ever. This is seat-of-the-pants only, but I ride a Hayabusa and know what acceleration and speed feel like...

It could be that they did not properly flash your ECM?

 

[Sad4RunnerOwner]

Re: Re: 2004 4Runner V8 sulfur smell

This is exactly the type of problem I was worried about. I do not want to sacrafice performance. Since I don't ususally drive with the rear window down, I don't know if the getting the TSB is worth all the problems I've heard about.

:awais:

That is why I had my pipe bent out to the right. Plus, it helps to prevent a burn when loading a boat or changing while skiing.

Good luck!

 

[rando]

My mileage has never been more than 12-14mpg ever since I got the Sulfer fix. Truthfull it was never great but at least used to be reasonable for highway driving (closer to 17-18mpg). I switched from Chevron Premium to regular unleaded after the first month of use (before the Sulfer fix) and didn't notice much any change in performance or mileage.

Here's the deal. Last night while driving home from Anza-Borrego, I stopped in Temecula and grabbed 14G of Chevron premium. I noticed on the ride back to Redondo that the trip computer was showing 18mpg, then 19, ... and by the time I got home it was at a whopping 23mpg (100+ miles from fuel up). That morning, my trip computer had read ~16mpg over the course of my trip from Redondo to Temecula. The only difference was the grade of gas -- Chevron regular on the way there, premium on the way home. I always reset the computer at each fill up.

I know the trip computer isn't accurate but most people from here have reported about 10-12% error. Using that math, my truck was probably getting around 14mpg on the way to Temecula (i.e. what it has been doing for 6 months) but 20mpg on the way back (i.e. closer to what it used to get before I got the Sulfer fix). Is it possible that the Sulfer fix mod'd trucks are more sensitive to fuel grade?

For those of you with V8's and having problems after the fix, what type of fuel do you normally use?

 

[uberdog]

That is interesting regarding the octane level and mileage...

I don't recall what the manual sys, but I think the V8 requires mid-grade or better. Might be worth trying Chevron regular and see what happens.

 

[sharp4runr]

V6/V8 both require regular (87).

 

[rando]

According to the manual, the V8 needs

Unleaded gasoline, Octane Rating 87 (Research Octane Number 91) or higher. For improved vehicle performance, the use of premium unleaded gasoline with an Octane Rating of 91 (Research Octane Number 96) or higher is recommended.

This has been discussed before but most people confirmed that they didn't notice much of difference between regular and super.

What I'm trying to figure out is if the difference might somehow be greater after the Sulfer fix is installed.

 

[live4swell]

I have only used regular and definitely have noticed the decrease in MPG since the sulphur fix...I havent tried premium gas, never really thought it would effect it...but maybe you are on to somethin

 

[rando]

Just an update, I stopped in to fill my tank this morning to confirm my actual mpg. By the time I got the Chevron, the trip computer was reading 21.6mpg. It took 5.0G and had gone 92 miles for just over 18mpg! I'm going to stick with 91 octane for a while just to see if things are different for my more routine city driving.

 

[Jim_Chow]

I always use Chevron 91 in all my cars. In my 86 22re 4runner (2" OME lift, ARB winchbar, Kaymar rear bar w/ tire carrier, sliders, 31's w/ 4.56 gearing), I get a consistent 23.5-24mpg. I heard premium has a little more energy in it but that's not my reason for using it (it's to eliminate the pinging and for more power on the climbs...at 116hp [really more like 130hp w/ the modified exhaust and new cam], I need every little pony I can muster).

I'm not sure about gas in the CA desert, but they might not be subject to as stringent pollution standards as the gas in the city, so maybe less MTBE or whatever smog reducing additive they add. When i lived in LA, the best I could get on my 86 4Runner was 21-22mpg and 26mpg in my '01 honda prelude. Here in Tucson (our gas also has MTBE/ethanol), I get 29-32mpg in the honda and 23.5-24 in the 4runner. Granted, the driving here has a lot fewer stoplights and less idling, but more A/C use. Fuel economy definitely improves during the summer,despite the constant A/C use. I'm guessing since the air is hot/dry (thin), the mixture is leaner?

 

[mjfrank]

I always use Chevron 91 in all my cars. In my 86 22re 4runner (2" OME lift, ARB winchbar, Kaymar rear bar w/ tire carrier, sliders, 31's w/ 4.56 gearing), I get a consistent 23.5-24mpg. I heard premium has a little more energy in it but that's not my reason for using it (it's to eliminate the pinging and for more power on the climbs...at 116hp [really more like 130hp w/ the modified exhaust and new cam], I need every little pony I can muster).

Higher Octane fuels are not any more combustible than the lower grades. The increase in octane actually reduces the volatility of the fuel, which is what helps to reduce pinging or detonation in your engine. Because the high octane fuel is less prone to pre-ignition, the engine management computer is able to allow more ignition advance, which results in better performace from your engine. Therefore your reasons for running it are correct, which is to reduce pinging.

As an aside, running high octance fuel in engines not designed for it (i.e. those that can't advance ignition timing far enough to take advange of it), can result in increased combustion chamber deposits due to incomplete burning of the fuel.

--Mike