Supra Injectors in a Runner?

[A.Wilson013]

are you running an aftermarket ecu? or other heavy mods? im curious myself and am wondering since a few people on the forums said they've had no issues with them plug and play. I also have the URD MAF/FTC Underdog Racing Development

also, after talking to URD today they recommended i not go with a smaller s/c pulley, even with thier 7th injector kit, due to being at sea level with watery 91 octane gas. it was very honest of him to tell me that instead of trying to sell me a pulley anyways. I am also at sea level, but I use 92 octane... I have never had any ping...

which brings me to this: how running supra injectors as well as the 7th injector kit??? hopefully compensating and adding up to allow a smaller pulley. compared to the kit you can pick up the injectors pretty cheap any day of the week, and if they still make a difference its a much better hp/$ ratio than the kit. to me if i already spend $1500 on the 7th, pulleys and a tune, another $200 for even more power is a no brainer for me personally to run them both. also seems like if you are already piggybacked with the 7IK that the supra injectors shouldnt be any more hassle even if they do need to be tuned since you will already be doing that. I think the injectors + 7th Injector Kit would be overkill. There is a point where there is too much fuel. If you only upgrade the injectors, I am pretty sure your stock ECU will still pump the same amount of fuel through them. I feel confident saying that if you have the 7th Injector Kit ( which is capable of supplying more than enough fuel) the larger injectors will be overkill. Very much so.

what do y'all think??? thanks for the info guys!

My responses are in the quote, in red.

 

[Mf Baker]

My responses are in the quote, in red.

thanks for the info man! im in cali and have never seen a 92 sticker on a pump here. what size pulley are you running?

to be clear, i asked urd about the 2.1 pulley, he said no no no, he recommended that i install the 7th injector, make sure its tuned and theres no ping whatsoever, then start with a 2.2 and make sure theres no ping and go from there. but we talked for over an hour and based on his stories of driving his truck from the east coast and 93 to 91 here he thought i would most likely run into the same leaning problem if i upped both fuel and air drastically at the same time( 7th and 2.1, big boosts in both fuel and air).

this is what i was basing my question about both fuel upgrades on. in theory if i add the 7th and a 2.1 and it still pings, the bigger 6 injectors might even that out and make it possible to run a constant 10+psi. in theory of course.

and ok, interesting to see you have an aftermarket ecu but without the 7th injector. seems like everyone else on this and the tacoma forums that has supra injectors with a stock ecu doesnt have any problems with them. based on my limited research so far.

also, have you done a fuel pump upgrade??? in fuel math more fuel pressure and flow means more flow from the injectors, so if you have a stock fuel pump and the supra injectors that might be the issue. the supra injectors are actually only 240cc, but when you push more pressure to them thats when they turn into 312cc(according to witchhunt and other sites). im guessing the 190 pump would not be adequate for the 7th and bigger injectors, would need a 210 or more likely to keep that flow rate.

maybe im way off and have done the math wrong, im no expert when it comes to engine numbers. ???

 

[tacosmasher]

also, have you done a fuel pump upgrade??? in fuel math more fuel pressure and flow means more flow from the injectors, so if you have a stock fuel pump and the supra injectors that might be the issue. the supra injectors are actually only 240cc, but when you push more pressure to them thats when they turn into 312cc(according to witchhunt and other sites). im guessing the 190 pump would not be adequate for the 7th and bigger injectors, would need a 210 or more likely to keep that flow rate.

maybe im way off and have done the math wrong, im no expert when it comes to engine numbers. ???

The only Problem with that is that when you raise your pressure to get more through a injector you reallly mess with the spray pattern (if your concerned about that) and then you would need to adjust your injector duration. Which would then effect your injectors duty cycle, and more than likely be past 100% if you are FI.

The 7th injector does sound like the cheapest way to go. That said I dont know what all Tuning hardware is available for the 4runner. And the only thing Im used to tuning is Hondas using Hondata, crome pro and AEM. :roadkill:

Also: how many CC's are stock 4runner injectors.

 

[Mf Baker]

The only Problem with that is that when you raise your pressure to get more through a injector you reallly mess with the spray pattern (if your concerned about that) and then you would need to adjust your injector duration. Which would then effect your injectors duty cycle, and more than likely be past 100% if you are FI.

The 7th injector does sound like the cheapest way to go. That said I dont know what all Tuning hardware is available for the 4runner. And the only thing Im used to tuning is Hondas using Hondata, crome pro and AEM. :roadkill:

Also: how many CC's are stock 4runner injectors.

great question. i wasnt able to find definitively online anywhere how many cc the stock injectors are. i also came up with the same part number for the supra and stock 4runner injectors, yet they look very different and have different colors, but the exact same part number. im guessing the answer is somewhere on witchhunter, but i couldnt find which oem for the stockies are.

 

[A.Wilson013]

Also: how many CC's are stock 4runner injectors.

Gadget @ URD has said that all stock 5vz-fe injectors flow in the 240cc range. I believe they're advertised at 245cc, however. They're also all "air tip" injectors, so they should all have the same spray pattern.

thanks for the info man! im in cali and have never seen a 92 sticker on a pump here. what size pulley are you running? I run the 2.2 pulleu

to be clear, i asked urd about the 2.1 pulley, he said no no no, he recommended that i install the 7th injector, make sure its tuned and theres no ping whatsoever, then start with a 2.2 and make sure theres no ping and go from there. but we talked for over an hour and based on his stories of driving his truck from the east coast and 93 to 91 here he thought i would most likely run into the same leaning problem if i upped both fuel and air drastically at the same time( 7th and 2.1, big boosts in both fuel and air).
He told me the same thing about the 2.1 pulley. That it's normally used for high elevation applications. A friend (Vital22re) on Yotatech is running the 2.1 pulley with the 7th injector kit. His tuning is so close to perfect it's sickening.

this is what i was basing my question about both fuel upgrades on. in theory if i add the 7th and a 2.1 and it still pings, the bigger 6 injectors might even that out and make it possible to run a constant 10+psi. in theory of course.
See above statement What are you talking about when you mention 10+ psi constant?

and ok, interesting to see you have an aftermarket ecu but without the 7th injector. seems like everyone else on this and the tacoma forums that has supra injectors with a stock ecu doesnt have any problems with them. based on my limited research so far. I have not looked into running just the injectors... For the reason I mentioned in my last post. I think they're living in ignorance.

also, have you done a fuel pump upgrade??? in fuel math more fuel pressure and flow means more flow from the injectors, so if you have a stock fuel pump and the supra injectors that might be the issue. the supra injectors are actually only 240cc, but when you push more pressure to them thats when they turn into 312cc(according to witchhunt and other sites). im guessing the 190 pump would not be adequate for the 7th and bigger injectors, would need a 210 or more likely to keep that flow rate. Yes, I run the Walbro 190. I had the 255 but was having some problems with it (not getting consistent fuel delivery, I believe it was a faulty pump) and after reading Gadgets website and speaking with him I made the decision the 190 was better for the application of my setup. As he put it, "There is such thing as too much fuel." The 190, in his research, is the best for my use.

maybe im way off and have done the math wrong, im no expert when it comes to engine numbers. ???

Same as last time, my responses are in red.

Here are the injectors for comparison. From Witch Hunter.

"245cc" Stock 5VZ Injectors PN: 23250-62040
http://www.witchhunter.com/flowdatapix/d2325062040.jpg
Witch Hunter lists them at 250cc@ 3bar

"315cc" Supra Green Tops PN: 23250-70080
http://www.witchhunter.com/flowdatapix/d2325070080.jpg
Witch Hunter lists them at 312cc@ 3bar

 

[Mf Baker]

ok, wait, so the supra and 4runner have the same exact part number injector when i look it up, and they are both rated at the same flow??? am i missing something or do these engines just have the same injectors??? surely there must be some difference.

 

[A.Wilson013]

As I said in the previous post

"245cc" Stock 5VZ Injectors (4Runner) PN: 23250-62040
http://www.witchhunter.com/flowdatapix/d2325062040.jpg
Witch Hunter lists them at 250cc@ 3bar

"315cc" Supra Green Tops (Supra) PN: 23250-70080
http://www.witchhunter.com/flowdatapix/d2325070080.jpg
Witch Hunter lists them at 312cc@ 3bar

 

[Mf Baker]

doh! i somehow completely missed that at the bottom of the post, must have been a little buzzed, lol!

 

[Mf Baker]

how about these?

http://www.witchhunter.com/flowdatapix/d2325046030.jpg

http://www.witchhunter.com/flowdatapix/d2325046050.jpg

 

[Bijan]

Gadget @ URD has said that all stock 5vz-fe injectors flow in the 240cc range. I believe they're advertised at 245cc, however. They're also all "air tip" injectors, so they should all have the same spray pattern.

Did you add the Walbro 190 as soon as you boosted or when you added the 7th injector?

 

[Scramble]

Did you add the Walbro 190 as soon as you boosted or when you added the 7th injector?

Thats a good question, I have EVERYTHING needed for my install with the 5th injector & smaller pulley (2.7L). Everything except the 190. I guess I'm waiting to see if it runs fine without the fuel pump upgrade.

 

[A.Wilson013]

Did you add the Walbro 190 as soon as you boosted or when you added the 7th injector?

Thats a good question, I have EVERYTHING needed for my install with the 5th injector & smaller pulley (2.7L). Everything except the 190. I guess I'm waiting to see if it runs fine without the fuel pump upgrade.

My 4Runner was supercharged when it drove away from the dealership in early 1999. It had no fuel modifications at this point.

When I bought it at 90k miles it had a bunch of weird modifications, one of which was a walbro 255lph pump. Stock pulley, at that point. Not sure when they added the pump in.

I am currently running a denso pump out of an evo 8 and it's pretty awesome. Put it in a month or two ago and really like how quiet it is. If either of you need the Walbro 190, let me know and I'll let it go for cheap. Obviously [MENTION=120787]Bijan[/MENTION] will have the first crack at it since he posted first.

 

[Scramble]

My 4Runner was supercharged when it drove away from the dealership in early 1999. It had no fuel modifications at this point.

When I bought it at 90k miles it had a bunch of weird modifications, one of which was a walbro 255lph pump. Stock pulley, at that point. Not sure when they added the pump in.

I am currently running a denso pump out of an evo 8 and it's pretty awesome. Put it in a month or two ago and really like how quiet it is. If either of you need the Walbro 190, let me know and I'll let it go for cheap. Obviously [MENTION=120787]Bijan[/MENTION] will have the first crack at it since he posted first.

A new one is $64 shipped from Amazon. Is this the same one?

https://www.amazon.com/Original-WAL...TF8&qid=1467076129&sr=1-1&keywords=WALBRO+190

 

[A.Wilson013]

A new one is $64 shipped from Amazon. Is this the same one?

https://www.amazon.com/Original-WAL...TF8&qid=1467076129&sr=1-1&keywords=WALBRO+190

Wow, I have never seen them so cheap! That's nutty. I paid $100 for mine from URD, lol.

 

[Bijan]

My 4Runner was supercharged when it drove away from the dealership in early 1999. It had no fuel modifications at this point.

When I bought it at 90k miles it had a bunch of weird modifications, one of which was a walbro 255lph pump. Stock pulley, at that point. Not sure when they added the pump in.

I am currently running a denso pump out of an evo 8 and it's pretty awesome. Put it in a month or two ago and really like how quiet it is. If either of you need the Walbro 190, let me know and I'll let it go for cheap. Obviously [MENTION=120787]Bijan[/MENTION] will have the first crack at it since he posted first.

I may end up going w/ the Denso one since you're satistified with it. I'll be running a 2.1 pulley, 7th injector, upgraded fuel pump, but no wideband. Do you run a wideband?

 

[A.Wilson013]

I may end up going w/ the Denso one since you're satistified with it. I'll be running a 2.1 pulley, 7th injector, upgraded fuel pump, but no wideband. Do you run a wideband?

I do. You'd be foolish not to run a wide-band especially once you slap on the smaller pulley and start doing fuel modifications.

 

[Scramble]

Wow, I have never seen them so cheap! That's nutty. I paid $100 for mine from URD, lol.

I know! I planned on from buying from URD too. If you compare pics the bladder/filter looks different. It's so cheap it makes me nervous to buy it. LOL

 

[Scramble]

I may end up going w/ the Denso one since you're satistified with it. I'll be running a 2.1 pulley, 7th injector, upgraded fuel pump, but no wideband. Do you run a wideband?

Alex & [MENTION=86041]Mc1337sauce[/MENTION] convinced me to go with the wideband. If something goes wrong you'll know in advance before destroying your engine.
Add another $180 to the project! :help::tea:
This is the one I bought & comes highly recommended by a few people on here.
https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00N3VGPYS/ref=oh_aui_detailpage_o08_s00?ie=UTF8&psc=1