Hi all!! Ok, I bought a 97 about 2 weeks ago. It is in excelent shape inside and out. Unfortunately, I cant see inside of the engine and Im a firm believer that using synthetics from the get go will extend a vehicles life exponentially longer than without. Im getting ready to do my post buying a vehicle maintenance update (changing all fluids, filters, shocks, blah blah blah...) Heres the question, is there any way for me to tell what kind of oil was used previously because I heard that if your vehicle started out life on regular oil or even a blend that there comes a point where its almost worse for the vehicle if you swap over to synthetics. I mean, Id hate to cause any new leaks in my ride but it just irritates me to not know what kind of fluids are in it. (Im talking all fluids too. Trany, diffs, xfer case, motor...) If it is possible, then what is the process because I also heard that doing a tranny or motor flush this late in the game is bad for your junk too. I mean I saw the post by ajitaw and that scares the hell out of me. Whats the deal??!!
Switching to synthetics after 130k
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What makes you a firm believer that synthetics should only be used? Have you had engine failures or other engine troubles from using dino? I ask this in sincerity.
Personally, I have only used dino in my 4Runner(s) and other Toyota's. Modern day dino oils are much MUCH better than the oils from the past and will protect your engine just fine. This is why Toyota dealerships (and others) just recommend regular oil. I have not seen a single engine that had sludge build-up or blew up, from the use of dino oils. The KEY is, change it at the appropriate intervals and use ASE certified oils.
I have used full synthetic oils before. They were used in high-revving engines, which sustained those revs for an extended period of time. That is the advantage of synthetics--their viscosity. They will protect your engine better **at higher RPM's and heat, and has a higher tolerance for breakdown.** BUT, your 4Runner, nor mine will ever see 9,000 RPM's and a day at the track. Dino will protect your engine just as well as synthetics in our application. The only advantage, IMO, is extended change intervals for synthetics. However, I don't mind changing out my oil every 4-5,000 miles (vs. 6-10,000 miles for synthetics). Keeping a consistent schedule of oil changes, I have yet to encounter sludge or other engine related problems.
Just my $.02
Personally, I have only used dino in my 4Runner(s) and other Toyota's. Modern day dino oils are much MUCH better than the oils from the past and will protect your engine just fine. This is why Toyota dealerships (and others) just recommend regular oil. I have not seen a single engine that had sludge build-up or blew up, from the use of dino oils. The KEY is, change it at the appropriate intervals and use ASE certified oils.
I have used full synthetic oils before. They were used in high-revving engines, which sustained those revs for an extended period of time. That is the advantage of synthetics--their viscosity. They will protect your engine better **at higher RPM's and heat, and has a higher tolerance for breakdown.** BUT, your 4Runner, nor mine will ever see 9,000 RPM's and a day at the track. Dino will protect your engine just as well as synthetics in our application. The only advantage, IMO, is extended change intervals for synthetics. However, I don't mind changing out my oil every 4-5,000 miles (vs. 6-10,000 miles for synthetics). Keeping a consistent schedule of oil changes, I have yet to encounter sludge or other engine related problems.
Just my $.02
RonMAIDEN
Super Moderator
With my very raced turbo Eclipse I ran M1 syn and still changed my oil about every 3500 miles since it was very abused on the street and track and I run the same in my 4Runner (Redline in the gearboxes) but with 9000 miles between changes I only have to change my oil every 10 months which makes it convenient.
Plus synthetic is much more temperature indifferent and even at temps just below zero F the synthetic pours much more easily than dino oil which makes starting a frigid engine much easier.
I'll never run dino oil in anything except my mower or maybe a daily beater.
Plus synthetic is much more temperature indifferent and even at temps just below zero F the synthetic pours much more easily than dino oil which makes starting a frigid engine much easier.
I'll never run dino oil in anything except my mower or maybe a daily beater.
RonMAIDEN said:
Well, first of all, M1 is not a true synthetic. Perhaps, once it was, but now, they are producing a watered down version (it is group 3). A true synthetic oil would be Amsoil, Redline, RP, Castrol 0w-30, etc.
Secondly, I, myself, will not run anything but synthetic on my race cars, but on a truck or regular passenger car, dino does just fine. Starting issue is non-existant (I am at 4500 ft and it does get frigid cold here, but hardly below 0, which is the same in CO). I can guarantee that UOA test will reveal that my engine's condition is just as good as someone else running synthetic (which I'm getting ready to send in the sample to Blackstone coming up shortly).
Like I've already said, the only advantage would be the change intervals. But for me, I don't mind spending the extra 20 minutes to put in some fresh oil every 4000 miles, or 3-4 times a year.
RonMAIDEN
Super Moderator
I've poured M1 syn and a quart of dino oil at just 10 above and the pour rate is still a fair amount different plus it costs me the same to run syn for 9k vs dino for that same 9k and I it gives me peace of mind when wheeling at 12,000ft.
Any motor that sees abuse is a good candidate for synthetic.
M1 is a group IV synthetic as in "Group IV. Poly-alpha-olefin (PAO) synthetic oils with VI of 125-150. PAO significantly outperforms Group III in low temperature applications without the need for pour point depressant additives. "
3. Is it a "True Synthetic"? Prompted by a challenge to Castrol's use of hydrocracked Group III base oils in its Syntec product, the National Advertising Division of the US Council of Better Business Bureaus in 1999 allowed the definition of "synthetic lubricant" to include Group III-based oils. This decision resulted in a quick replacement of PAO by Group III oils due to $1.50 to $2 per gallon cost savings: most oil producers (with the notable exception of Mobil) made the switch in their synthetic products. There is some controversy about claiming VHVI Group III base oils as "synthetic". According to an unnamed PAO expert quoted in Lubricant World magazine, "The quality of Group III products is inconsistent, and their physical properties are different from one manufacturer to the next." Marketers using G III VHVI base oils in their "synthetic" lines include Castrol (Syntec), Valvoline, and Petro Canada. Those using Group IV or V oils include Mobil. According to Lubricant World magazine, "The synthetic market in general has seen ... new blends, new product releases, and formulation changes" and this continues to the present. Because marketers do not freely disclose oil formulations, caveat emptor prevails.
Any motor that sees abuse is a good candidate for synthetic.
M1 is a group IV synthetic as in "Group IV. Poly-alpha-olefin (PAO) synthetic oils with VI of 125-150. PAO significantly outperforms Group III in low temperature applications without the need for pour point depressant additives. "
3. Is it a "True Synthetic"? Prompted by a challenge to Castrol's use of hydrocracked Group III base oils in its Syntec product, the National Advertising Division of the US Council of Better Business Bureaus in 1999 allowed the definition of "synthetic lubricant" to include Group III-based oils. This decision resulted in a quick replacement of PAO by Group III oils due to $1.50 to $2 per gallon cost savings: most oil producers (with the notable exception of Mobil) made the switch in their synthetic products. There is some controversy about claiming VHVI Group III base oils as "synthetic". According to an unnamed PAO expert quoted in Lubricant World magazine, "The quality of Group III products is inconsistent, and their physical properties are different from one manufacturer to the next." Marketers using G III VHVI base oils in their "synthetic" lines include Castrol (Syntec), Valvoline, and Petro Canada. Those using Group IV or V oils include Mobil. According to Lubricant World magazine, "The synthetic market in general has seen ... new blends, new product releases, and formulation changes" and this continues to the present. Because marketers do not freely disclose oil formulations, caveat emptor prevails.
I actually use a synthetic blend in all my vehicles, but that is mostly because that is what we use at the Infiniti dealership that I work at. I have never had any problems with it, but I change my oil every 3000 miles. It is a practice I got into with my CRX because it is swapped and has a turbo and nitrous and I beat the crap out of it all the time. The thinking just kinda bled over to my other vehicles. I did the same thing with my old Isuzu Rodeo and with over 200k miles on it, the inside of the engine still had no sludge buildup when I pulled the valve covers off. :biggrin2:
RonMAIDEN said:
That info is several years old. But, in fear of turning this into another oil debate, I'll just say that I am never going to use M1 again. I always seemed to burn off about half a quart @ 3500 miles, too. I think it's because they are a bit thinner than indicated.
Anyway, I don't think our engines get abused too much? The driveline takes most of the beating. Even off-road, my RPM's don't see above 4k too often (at least not for an extended length of time). Either way, I will see what the UOA has to say.
RonMAIDEN
Super Moderator
I burn off 1/4 of a quart in 9000 miles so maybe it's your engine and not the oil. I see no point in going with anything beyond M1 on my 4Runner since it's ok priced and easy to get but I just can't go back to dino oil since I don't want to change my oil 3-4 times a year is the big reason.
So,show me some other info that Mobile went to Group 3 since I did some looking and I couldn't find any,i am curious.
So,show me some other info that Mobile went to Group 3 since I did some looking and I couldn't find any,i am curious.
Still no real answer...
Ok, thanks for all the replys fella's. I had originally had a little intrepidation about posting this for fear of what it would turn into; (a debate about oil) and it seems that it has anyway. I know that everybody has their opinion about oils and when and where to use them and so on and so forth and I can appreciate that. This is America, and thats what its about. Thats also why Ive chosen not to respond so far. I can be a bit opinionated and Ive learned (after having 4 sisters and being with my wife for 8 years now ) youve got to know when to hold 'em and know when to fold 'em. My opinion is...I like to run synthetics in my junk...I dont plan changing that any time soon and I dont ask any of you to either. That being said, does anybody have any info on the original question
......is there any way for me to tell what kind of oil was used [in my motor] previously ......and......If it is possible, then what is the process [to change over to synthetics from conventional]? Thanks for the help guys!! :biggrin2:
Ok, thanks for all the replys fella's. I had originally had a little intrepidation about posting this for fear of what it would turn into; (a debate about oil) and it seems that it has anyway. I know that everybody has their opinion about oils and when and where to use them and so on and so forth and I can appreciate that. This is America, and thats what its about. Thats also why Ive chosen not to respond so far. I can be a bit opinionated and Ive learned (after having 4 sisters and being with my wife for 8 years now ) youve got to know when to hold 'em and know when to fold 'em. My opinion is...I like to run synthetics in my junk...I dont plan changing that any time soon and I dont ask any of you to either. That being said, does anybody have any info on the original question
......is there any way for me to tell what kind of oil was used [in my motor] previously ......and......If it is possible, then what is the process [to change over to synthetics from conventional]? Thanks for the help guys!! :biggrin2:RonMAIDEN said:
I am not saying M1 is bad to use, but I would not pay that much if I could get Amsoil, RP, Redline, etc. for just a little more. I usually burned about 1 qt. per session on my ITR AND S2000. And 1/2 qt. per oil change. Other ITR owners also have reported the same. Did not burn a single drop with Amsoil or Castrol 0w-30 (full syn).
Again, to not hijack, just google mobil 1 group 3.
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Thank you p_nut! Question is, are there going to be any adverse affects to switching over. See, I always use amsoil and Ive heard that you have to use some type of engine cleaner or something before you switch over. I also heard that sometimes its not adviseable to switch after a while because with conv. oil you get these deposits that build up and I guess sort of fill in crevices and slow down leaks (which sounds like BS to me but I guess on older cars maybe its possible) that will get opened up when you switch over to synthetics.
I am like you I run synthetics in all my cars and trucks. If the oil that the other owner ran is still in the in the motor take a sample and send it to Blackstone or a other company that can analyze the oil and they can tell you anything you what to know about the oil. I just got a 1996 4runner that has 148,000.00 miles on it and I have 6 qt of M1 synthetic high mileage oil that will go in it. I have own 4 different Toyota and I have ran synthetics in them all and I run RP in my 2003 Mustang GT with a Kenne Bell supercharger making 426RWHP and 446 RWTQ @9 lbs of boost. So just drain the oil and pour in what type of synthetic oil you want and the oil will slowly clean the motor or you can have it flushed at your Toyota dealer. Just take the oil you want to run with you. Good luck with whatever to go with.
