Synthetic or conventional oil?
- Thread starter rwh963
- Start date
150,000 miles in 26 mile long Nassau bahamas on 2005 4runner that has never seen the shop except tires and brakes.
Nobody builds trucks and cars better than Toyota.:gun6:
Synthetic Oil vs Conventional Oil - Which Type For Your Car Engine
YouTube · 986,000+ views · 11/7/2017 · by Scotty Kilmer
scotty kilmer on synthetic - Bing video
In my own V6 4runner (2005) I switched to synthetic after 12 years of conventional and immediately got drips from using the synthetic - so I switched back and the drips stopped (1 drip a week now).
I have a two car garage here in Bahamas and laid down some cardboard to watch - so I know what I am talking about. It is not a serious issue IMO as not enough oil loss to cause any issues.
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Wow, you guys are still going.
***(go to bottom for Cliff Notes)
OK, I have a question for which I'd like to get thoughts and opinions.
Waaaaay back on Page 1 or 2 of one of these threads, I commented that I switched a vehicle with 105k over to synthetic. It had an unknown oil change history prior to that, and no leaks up to that point.
Once I changed to synthetic, I did get a small amount of seepage around the rear seal and perhaps a drop or two....
BUT
That moist area and the drips stopped after about 3500 miles, and never reappeared afterwards. I used Amsoil, M1, SuperTech, Pennzoil and Valvoline synthetics, all with no further leakage.
At first I was concerned about the seepage and drips. After doing a bunch of research, including spending entirely too much time on Bobistheoilguy, I figured it out. Assuming a seal doesn't need to be replaced:
1) Conventional oils can form a crust near seals.
2) Synthetics remove these layers of crust, exposing the seals.
3) The seals behind the crust are dry and hard and therefore leak, sometimes a lot, sometimes a little
4) Once the seal has been in contact with fresh oil (and additives) for awhile, it softens up and begins to work properly again.
I know a couple guys that have had the same thing happen - initially a leak when changing to synthetic, which stopped after something less than 5000 miles.
Cap'n, I asked you many many pages back how long you'd left the synthetic oil in, and you answered (IIRC) "about a week". I would postulate that IF your seals are good, and IF you had left the synthetic oil in longer, say 5000 miles, then the leaks would have stopped. But if and since you've decided to stick with conventional oil, I respect your decision. But please please stop posting up the Kilmer videos.
***Changing to synthetic on a higher mileage vehicle CAN result in leaks in some cases. However if the leaky seal does not need to be replaced, these leaks will generally dry up within several thousand miles.
***(go to bottom for Cliff Notes)
OK, I have a question for which I'd like to get thoughts and opinions.
Waaaaay back on Page 1 or 2 of one of these threads, I commented that I switched a vehicle with 105k over to synthetic. It had an unknown oil change history prior to that, and no leaks up to that point.
Once I changed to synthetic, I did get a small amount of seepage around the rear seal and perhaps a drop or two....
BUT
That moist area and the drips stopped after about 3500 miles, and never reappeared afterwards. I used Amsoil, M1, SuperTech, Pennzoil and Valvoline synthetics, all with no further leakage.
At first I was concerned about the seepage and drips. After doing a bunch of research, including spending entirely too much time on Bobistheoilguy, I figured it out. Assuming a seal doesn't need to be replaced:
1) Conventional oils can form a crust near seals.
2) Synthetics remove these layers of crust, exposing the seals.
3) The seals behind the crust are dry and hard and therefore leak, sometimes a lot, sometimes a little
4) Once the seal has been in contact with fresh oil (and additives) for awhile, it softens up and begins to work properly again.
I know a couple guys that have had the same thing happen - initially a leak when changing to synthetic, which stopped after something less than 5000 miles.
Cap'n, I asked you many many pages back how long you'd left the synthetic oil in, and you answered (IIRC) "about a week". I would postulate that IF your seals are good, and IF you had left the synthetic oil in longer, say 5000 miles, then the leaks would have stopped. But if and since you've decided to stick with conventional oil, I respect your decision. But please please stop posting up the Kilmer videos.
***Changing to synthetic on a higher mileage vehicle CAN result in leaks in some cases. However if the leaky seal does not need to be replaced, these leaks will generally dry up within several thousand miles.
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Not sure you are right about the synthetic oil working well in my 4runner (2005). When I switched back to conventional oil the drips slowed dramatically to 1 drop every few days (from several drops a day on synthetic). The synthetic was in my 4runner for about 5 days, and I had seen enough!
If you change your oil every 5000 miles synthetic is a waste of time and will leak like mad - compared to regular conventional - in a 15 year old Toyota 4runner.
For the first 15 years on conventional, I had zero to hardly any drips. Synthetic didn't work well in my 2005 4runner.
I have 15 year old 4 runner - who purchased it new - and the synthetic didn't work well and actually caused more oil drips.
I'm using conventional only now with few to no drips again.
Scotty Kilmer is expert and TV star mechanic (and multimillionaire - his own words). Who are you to tell me to stop posting his link where he says the same things about synthetics in older cars?
BTW.. I'm a multimillionaire too, and I know it does matter.
Has Scotty Kilmer been banned here?
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So because synthetic costs more its better than conventional. :thanks:
scotty kilmer on synthetic - Bing video
Why not just buy a BRAND NEW ONE ....BLOWHARD
The point I'm trying to make is that, although synthetic leaked in your 15-year-old 4Runner, it was only in for 5 days. Had you left it in, based on my and others' experience, the leaks would have stopped within 5,000 miles.
Switching back and stopping the leak, by scientific method, only shows that it doesn't leak on conventional, not that it wouldn't stop leaking with synthetic.
Not trying to persuade you to change back either. Just having a conversation.
I agree, 5k on synthetic is a waste. I'm a proponent for longer oil changes, based on analysis. Be that as it may, I'd like your perspective on my 'crust' discussion in the previous post. We've all seen videos or pictures of sludged or crusted engines; and though I'm not saying yours looks like that, what I am saying is that, after 15 years on conventional, your seals could have some crusted oil around them. It would of course depend on many factors, but it's possible. It's also possible the seal that was leaking is going bad.
Mr. Kilmer has some good ideas, and in some videos some questionable ones. He's not banned to my knowledge.
Whether he's actually an expert is not something I know about for certain. What I *do* know is that he's very successful on YouTube and that his presentation style is captivating for some and irritating to others. You could say the same about Chris Fixx or any number of other presenters.
I want to be clear: I didn't TELL you to stop posting links to his videos. I asked, in what I intended to be a polite way. My point here being that anyone who reads the thread will see the same videos posted earlier in the thread and will already be aware of and possibly have viewed them already. For those that have read the entire thread, it's repetitive and unnecessary - your point has already been thoroughly made!
Personally, I'm glad you're a multimillionaire and are enjoying life in the Bahamas. However pointing it out repeatedly is unseemly for someone of your station, and perhaps a multimillionaire would aspire to be the better man.
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Your answer seems illogical to me. Has your 4runner ever leaked oil? Do you own a 4runner?
My 2005 4runner (purchased new for $43,000 cash) leaked when I tried synthetic. It would have leaked for 20 years on synthetic. I get one drip a week on conventional.
I switched back to conventional. Do you think I did so to show synthetic is inferior?
The 4runner was leak-free for over 10 years. The leaks started as the car got older and after I switched to synthetic. The leaks are much worse using synthetic. I only use conventional now.
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firebirdguy
Member
Here are some FACTS about synthetic oil & oil in general for the “expert” on here that cant understand logic & reason…
Synthetic oil is superior to conventional in every way, proven by countless tests from professional engine builders & the scientists that develop oils (tribologists).
It flows better when cold providing better lubrication to engine parts at critical cold starts & cold starts can be 60-70*f but in winter temps its easily noticeable in how the engine cranks over.
It withstands heat far better & provides better lubrication during all temps of the engine.
It does not break down as easily under stress or abuse & is proven to make more horse power due to less friction & better flow.
It also lasts longer with a better additive package than most normal oils. Yes there are conventional racing oils that have more zddp in them for older flat tappet lifter cams but those are considered a specialty oil for racing purposes.
Synthetic oil is thinner of the same weight compared to conventional & “can” find its way around compromised gaskets & seals but it does NOT cause leaks when gaskets & seals are in good condition. This is backed up by every single oil company & was even clearly explained in a link that was posted about mobil1 oil that contradicts the statements made by a certain person on these oil threads. Those statements also clearly show why the synthetic leaked in that 15 year old 4runner... it still has “drips” even on the 10/40 conventional that’s being used. That says one thing, the gaskets & seals are compromised or failing if it still leaks on conventional & has been since it was “10 years old”. Doesn’t take a rocket scientist to figure that out, even non millionaires can understand this...
Another fact about oil is that the worst thing you can do for an engine is to make short trips not getting the oil to full temps, such as 2-4 mile trips regardless of the outside temps or climate. Doing that doesn’t allow the condensation, fuel blow by & acid formations inside the engine to burn off & that creates sludge, which will damage gaskets & seals very quickly & can clog up PCV valves that create high pressures in the crankcase & cause or contribute to oil leaks.
Bottom line, as I said many times in these oil threads, is that both types of oils are totally adequate to use in a 4th gen 4runner & anyone can use what they want, but the benefits of synthetic are scientifically tested & proven, they may not be “needed” for an average daily driver unless you want or need the benefits I mentioned above or go longer oil change intervals etc.
But it is a FACT that you cant blame synthetic oil for leaking when you still have leaks on conventional oil… it is the condition of the gaskets that are allowing either of the oils to leak or drip. Period.
& as shown by the comments from others in these threads or the “which oil do you use” poll I started a few weeks ago, that 99% of people with the same age/miles & even older & higher mileage 4runners DO NOT HAVE LEAKS ON SYNTHETIC.
Ask any competent mechanic & they will tell you the same thing. Then, ask them if synthetic oil causes “head gasket issues or engine damage” & they will probably laugh you right out of their shop!
I realize that you just cant talk reason or sense into some people even when providing facts & basic mechanical fundamentals, but to just keep posting misinformation & ignorance is not providing any benefit to anyone on this forum who may not know better or comes here to learn things. & im pretty sure anyone on here that stated their experience with their 4runners, probably actually owns one!
Prove me wrong on anything I stated with verifiable facts & I will gladly admit im wrong. Until then, please stop with the anecdotal, uneducated & flawed opinions.
Have a nice day
Synthetic oil is superior to conventional in every way, proven by countless tests from professional engine builders & the scientists that develop oils (tribologists).
It flows better when cold providing better lubrication to engine parts at critical cold starts & cold starts can be 60-70*f but in winter temps its easily noticeable in how the engine cranks over.
It withstands heat far better & provides better lubrication during all temps of the engine.
It does not break down as easily under stress or abuse & is proven to make more horse power due to less friction & better flow.
It also lasts longer with a better additive package than most normal oils. Yes there are conventional racing oils that have more zddp in them for older flat tappet lifter cams but those are considered a specialty oil for racing purposes.
Synthetic oil is thinner of the same weight compared to conventional & “can” find its way around compromised gaskets & seals but it does NOT cause leaks when gaskets & seals are in good condition. This is backed up by every single oil company & was even clearly explained in a link that was posted about mobil1 oil that contradicts the statements made by a certain person on these oil threads. Those statements also clearly show why the synthetic leaked in that 15 year old 4runner... it still has “drips” even on the 10/40 conventional that’s being used. That says one thing, the gaskets & seals are compromised or failing if it still leaks on conventional & has been since it was “10 years old”. Doesn’t take a rocket scientist to figure that out, even non millionaires can understand this...
Another fact about oil is that the worst thing you can do for an engine is to make short trips not getting the oil to full temps, such as 2-4 mile trips regardless of the outside temps or climate. Doing that doesn’t allow the condensation, fuel blow by & acid formations inside the engine to burn off & that creates sludge, which will damage gaskets & seals very quickly & can clog up PCV valves that create high pressures in the crankcase & cause or contribute to oil leaks.
Bottom line, as I said many times in these oil threads, is that both types of oils are totally adequate to use in a 4th gen 4runner & anyone can use what they want, but the benefits of synthetic are scientifically tested & proven, they may not be “needed” for an average daily driver unless you want or need the benefits I mentioned above or go longer oil change intervals etc.
But it is a FACT that you cant blame synthetic oil for leaking when you still have leaks on conventional oil… it is the condition of the gaskets that are allowing either of the oils to leak or drip. Period.
& as shown by the comments from others in these threads or the “which oil do you use” poll I started a few weeks ago, that 99% of people with the same age/miles & even older & higher mileage 4runners DO NOT HAVE LEAKS ON SYNTHETIC.
Ask any competent mechanic & they will tell you the same thing. Then, ask them if synthetic oil causes “head gasket issues or engine damage” & they will probably laugh you right out of their shop!
I realize that you just cant talk reason or sense into some people even when providing facts & basic mechanical fundamentals, but to just keep posting misinformation & ignorance is not providing any benefit to anyone on this forum who may not know better or comes here to learn things. & im pretty sure anyone on here that stated their experience with their 4runners, probably actually owns one!
Prove me wrong on anything I stated with verifiable facts & I will gladly admit im wrong. Until then, please stop with the anecdotal, uneducated & flawed opinions.
Have a nice day
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Synthetic is garbage IMO in older vehicles (fine in new cars) . I get serious leaks (drips) with it and changed right back to conventional - and 1 drip a week.
2005 4runner 150,000 miles - purchased new for $43,000 - Nassau Bahamas
When you get leaks all over your two-car garage you'll switch back to conventional too.
I don't buy it that synthetic is better than conventional oil.
Change oil every 5,000 miles and I'll get to 500,000 miles on my 4runner - with some luck! It's more the brand Toyota than the oil IMO. Never heard of a Ford going 500,000 miles or more 1 million miles, but it is possible :wtf:
What year 4runner does this poster own. A 2013? How many miles. They don't leak for 10 years from new IM experience.
BTW.. You have no proof for your statements and have not interviewed 200 4runner owners.
The leaks (drips) on synthetic oil was 10 times what I got from conventional in my 2005 4runner.
THIS GUY went back to conventional oil after synthetic (Royal Purple). synthetic oil leaks in older cars - Bing video
THIS link says stay with conventional Is Synthetic Oil Bad for Old Engines? - Maintenance/Repairs - Car Talk Community
Anyway, when I switched back to conventional in My 2005 4runner (150,000 miles) I got far fewer drips.
scotty kilmer head gasket sealer - Bing video
2005 4runner 150,000 miles - purchased new for $43,000 - Nassau Bahamas
When you get leaks all over your two-car garage you'll switch back to conventional too.
I don't buy it that synthetic is better than conventional oil.
Change oil every 5,000 miles and I'll get to 500,000 miles on my 4runner - with some luck! It's more the brand Toyota than the oil IMO. Never heard of a Ford going 500,000 miles or more 1 million miles, but it is possible :wtf:
What year 4runner does this poster own. A 2013? How many miles. They don't leak for 10 years from new IM experience.
BTW.. You have no proof for your statements and have not interviewed 200 4runner owners.
The leaks (drips) on synthetic oil was 10 times what I got from conventional in my 2005 4runner.
THIS GUY went back to conventional oil after synthetic (Royal Purple). synthetic oil leaks in older cars - Bing video
THIS link says stay with conventional Is Synthetic Oil Bad for Old Engines? - Maintenance/Repairs - Car Talk Community
Anyway, when I switched back to conventional in My 2005 4runner (150,000 miles) I got far fewer drips.
scotty kilmer head gasket sealer - Bing video
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ok!!
Endlessblockades
Senior Member
[MENTION=279139]Captsolo[/MENTION]
You are a "multimillionaire' living in the Bahamas and you're counting oil drips on a 15 year old 4Runner? Maybe chill on the netbanging and enjoy life before what the hurricanes have left behind is finally consumed by rising sea levels.
You are a "multimillionaire' living in the Bahamas and you're counting oil drips on a 15 year old 4Runner? Maybe chill on the netbanging and enjoy life before what the hurricanes have left behind is finally consumed by rising sea levels.
You should get your sykiatric deplorable!
We don’t get hurricanes in December.
One or two oil drips no big deal.
4Runner runs better than a brand new Ford or Chevy
Never an overheat in 15 years.
shocks and struts still great on Bahamian roads.
Ever own a Toyota?
I had a GMC Jimmy I bought off a dealer's lot new.
After ten years there was rust everywhere. Rear hatch was falling off.
Doors were rusting out. Same for hood.
4runner hasn't a speck of rust anywhere except under the frame
where it gets hit with salt and water.
Nothing serious. Still all solid steel!
We don’t get hurricanes in December.
One or two oil drips no big deal.
4Runner runs better than a brand new Ford or Chevy
Never an overheat in 15 years.
shocks and struts still great on Bahamian roads.
Ever own a Toyota?
I had a GMC Jimmy I bought off a dealer's lot new.
After ten years there was rust everywhere. Rear hatch was falling off.
Doors were rusting out. Same for hood.
4runner hasn't a speck of rust anywhere except under the frame
where it gets hit with salt and water.
Nothing serious. Still all solid steel!
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firebirdguy
Member
ok boomer...
theres this thing called google... do some research & maybe you can educate yourself a little better.
is synthetic oil better than conventional oil - Google Search
theres this thing called google... do some research & maybe you can educate yourself a little better.
is synthetic oil better than conventional oil - Google Search
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BackOff
New member
My 2004 V6 has had Royal Purple in it since 2010...ZERO drips.
The one time i took scotties advice on SteelSeal...head gasket repair.:toilet:
Needed new water pump and radiator after it killed the water pump and plugged up the radiator and started to run 190*+.
I have no following or friends and dont make money off the internet.
Just some guy that likes 4runners.
The one time i took scotties advice on SteelSeal...head gasket repair.:toilet:
Needed new water pump and radiator after it killed the water pump and plugged up the radiator and started to run 190*+.
I have no following or friends and dont make money off the internet.
Just some guy that likes 4runners.
Good to know.
My 2005 4runner (150,000 miles on island where you can't drive to 60mph except 1 time a year) has had no engine problems since I bought it new (15 years), and I always wondered what to do if my HG failed.
If the HG is badly damaged I doubt anything but a new HG will fix the problem. I'd try the Steelseal. What have you got to lose? If it don't work, find your mechanic for a new HG. :fencing:
I check my coolant level (in the overflow canister) twice a week. It is always on the same line, never low, but I still keep checking it 'cause it is a 15 year old 4runner.
Never had 1 overheat (OH), and don't want one OH!
I use regular conventional oil recommended weight, and change it every 5000 miles in the driveway! Taking it to the dealer is just a waste of time. They always ask me to leave it overnight. Takes 30 minutes with a filter in my driveway, on my time. Just don't overtighten the drain bolt.
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I tried synthetic in my 2005 V6 4runner with 150,000 miles and I got lots of drips right away.
I switched back to conventional and the drips slowed down dramatically to a drop or so a week.
Synthetic oil is overhyped IMO. Better off with conventional and change it every 4000 miles.
I swear my engine got noisier on synthetic too.:bounce:
highest milage cars - Bing video
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Warwicke36
New member
Time to lock this thread, no new information being presented. Keeps getting bumped to the top pushing actual issues farther down.
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