Synthetic Vs Conventional motor oil
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Presta24
New member
what synthetic are you guys running in your 4.7L's?
12guns
New member
Search and you'll find countless threads on synthetic oil.
I have used Penzoil Platinum, Royal Purple, and I now have Penzoil Platinum Ultra Sythetic in my V8 4runner. I bought it from Wal-Mart for low cost. I can't remember what filter I used....I think it was K&N. I have a Mobile 1 high cap filter for my next oil change. I'l be going a full 10k between changes this time. From what I've read our 4.7 V8's are easy on the oil. I'll be sending off a sample soon and post the results.
Good luck!
I have used Penzoil Platinum, Royal Purple, and I now have Penzoil Platinum Ultra Sythetic in my V8 4runner. I bought it from Wal-Mart for low cost. I can't remember what filter I used....I think it was K&N. I have a Mobile 1 high cap filter for my next oil change. I'l be going a full 10k between changes this time. From what I've read our 4.7 V8's are easy on the oil. I'll be sending off a sample soon and post the results.
Good luck!
Presta24
New member
what does it cost and where do u send the samples too, what does it cost u for oil and filter for a syn oil change?
KB084RUNNER
New member
Go to Walmart and buy whatever synthetic is on sale and use that. Not much difference that the high priced boutique oils like Amsoil or Royal Purple. For your application I would use Maxlife syn blend.
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Koz
New member
I've posted this info in the past and feel it was worth posting again. It explains some of the differences between dino and syn. It also explains why synthetic can be used for longer change intervals.
Even though petroleum refining is an advanced science, small amounts of contaminants, such as sulfur and reactive hydrocarbons cannot be completely removed from petroleum, and end up in motor oil base stocks. Synthetics base stock are designed in a lab and therefore do not contain these contaminants. So right from the start petroleum oil is contaminated.
Petroleum oil molecules are of varying sizes. So, as a petroleum oil heats up, the smaller molecules begin to burn off. Deposits and sludge are left behind to coat the inside of your engine. In addition, as smaller particles burn off, the larger, heavier molecules are all that is left to protect the engine. Unfortunately, these larger particles do not flow nearly as well and tend to blanket the components of your engine which only exacerbates the heat problem as friction builds-up. Synthetic oils, on the other hand, because they are not purified, but rather designed within a lab for lubrication purposes, are comprised of molecules of uniform size and shape. Therefore, even if a synthetic oil does burn a little, the remaining oil has the same chemical characteristics that it had before the burn off. There are no smaller molecules to burn-off and no heavier molecules to leave behind. OK, I said I would try to keep it short, bottomline is synthetics contain almost no contaminants compared to petroleum oils since they are not a refined product. As a result, if oil burn-off does occur, there are few, if any, contaminants left behind to leave sludge and deposits on engine surfaces.
Petroleum oils also contain paraffins (wax), they tend to thicken up considerably in cold temperatures. Additives are used to help keep the oil from thickening too much due to these waxy contaminants. Synthetic oils, on the other hand, contain no paraffins. Therefore, they need no additive to help with cold temperature operation. Moreover, even without the additives, synthetics flow at far lower temperatures than petroleum oils. Remember additives cause contamination!
Since synthetics contain no additives to aid with cold temperature flow, synthetics maintain their cold temperature flow characteristics for a long period of time. Additive depletion is not a factor in the cold temperature flow of synthetic oils. Synthetics do not thicken due to burn-off. So, this is not a factor in cold temperature flow either. Of course, the obvious result is that you don't need to change synthetic oil as often to regain adequate cold temperature flow.
Water causes acids to be created within the oil and corrosion will begin within your engine. So, there are additives in the oil which are designed to combat these acids. Synthetics contain higher quality and a higher quantity of these additives in order to properly neutralize these acids for a longer period of time. These additives do deplete over time, but it takes longer with synthetic oils than with petroleum oils.
Here's a couple important facts; Additives are also used to keep oil contamination in check and to keep it from damaging your engine. These additives keep potentially wear causing contaminants suspended and contained in your oil so they don't cause excessive wear or deposit build-up within your engine before your filter can remove them. Synthetics have higher additive treat rates than petroleum oils (in addition to using higher quality, more expensive, additives), so they can perform this contaminant control function for a much longer period of time than a petroleum oil can.
To control acids the Total Base Number (TBN) describes the acid neutralization ability of an oil, with higher TBN oils providing longer lasting acid neutralization. Synthetics nearly always have higher TBN values than petroleum oils do. The result: longer and better acid neutralization capability allowing for extended drain use.
Koz
Even though petroleum refining is an advanced science, small amounts of contaminants, such as sulfur and reactive hydrocarbons cannot be completely removed from petroleum, and end up in motor oil base stocks. Synthetics base stock are designed in a lab and therefore do not contain these contaminants. So right from the start petroleum oil is contaminated.
Petroleum oil molecules are of varying sizes. So, as a petroleum oil heats up, the smaller molecules begin to burn off. Deposits and sludge are left behind to coat the inside of your engine. In addition, as smaller particles burn off, the larger, heavier molecules are all that is left to protect the engine. Unfortunately, these larger particles do not flow nearly as well and tend to blanket the components of your engine which only exacerbates the heat problem as friction builds-up. Synthetic oils, on the other hand, because they are not purified, but rather designed within a lab for lubrication purposes, are comprised of molecules of uniform size and shape. Therefore, even if a synthetic oil does burn a little, the remaining oil has the same chemical characteristics that it had before the burn off. There are no smaller molecules to burn-off and no heavier molecules to leave behind. OK, I said I would try to keep it short, bottomline is synthetics contain almost no contaminants compared to petroleum oils since they are not a refined product. As a result, if oil burn-off does occur, there are few, if any, contaminants left behind to leave sludge and deposits on engine surfaces.
Petroleum oils also contain paraffins (wax), they tend to thicken up considerably in cold temperatures. Additives are used to help keep the oil from thickening too much due to these waxy contaminants. Synthetic oils, on the other hand, contain no paraffins. Therefore, they need no additive to help with cold temperature operation. Moreover, even without the additives, synthetics flow at far lower temperatures than petroleum oils. Remember additives cause contamination!
Since synthetics contain no additives to aid with cold temperature flow, synthetics maintain their cold temperature flow characteristics for a long period of time. Additive depletion is not a factor in the cold temperature flow of synthetic oils. Synthetics do not thicken due to burn-off. So, this is not a factor in cold temperature flow either. Of course, the obvious result is that you don't need to change synthetic oil as often to regain adequate cold temperature flow.
Water causes acids to be created within the oil and corrosion will begin within your engine. So, there are additives in the oil which are designed to combat these acids. Synthetics contain higher quality and a higher quantity of these additives in order to properly neutralize these acids for a longer period of time. These additives do deplete over time, but it takes longer with synthetic oils than with petroleum oils.
Here's a couple important facts; Additives are also used to keep oil contamination in check and to keep it from damaging your engine. These additives keep potentially wear causing contaminants suspended and contained in your oil so they don't cause excessive wear or deposit build-up within your engine before your filter can remove them. Synthetics have higher additive treat rates than petroleum oils (in addition to using higher quality, more expensive, additives), so they can perform this contaminant control function for a much longer period of time than a petroleum oil can.
To control acids the Total Base Number (TBN) describes the acid neutralization ability of an oil, with higher TBN oils providing longer lasting acid neutralization. Synthetics nearly always have higher TBN values than petroleum oils do. The result: longer and better acid neutralization capability allowing for extended drain use.
Koz
Doozi
New member
Great info, Koz! I feel that synthetic is definitely the way to go... it's always cleaner than conventional when I drain it for oil changes. That explains why! I've always felt that synthetic oil is actually designed to use as engine lubrication while conventional oil is "earthen goo" that we refine to try and make suitable for lubrication.
~Doozi
~Doozi
message
Member
I've done quite a bit of research and despite a lot of opinions there's also alot of good test results out there if you do some searching.
Personally I run Royal Purple 5w30, though AMSOIL and Mobil1 are probably just as good...
Dyno run test: YouTube - Trucks TV! Reduces Engine Heat by Changing to Synthetic
Personally I run Royal Purple 5w30, though AMSOIL and Mobil1 are probably just as good...
Dyno run test: YouTube - Trucks TV! Reduces Engine Heat by Changing to Synthetic
Nuke
New member
I run M1 in the T4R (tow vehicle) and change it at 8k miles but I'm considering changing over to Pennzoil Ultra. I run Amsoil in my Mustang and change it at 10k miles.
I've ran both dino and full synthetics in cars close to and over 200k miles with 10k mile oil change frequencies. Never an issue.
If you change synthetics at anything less than 8k miles, you're wasting your money and should consider a synthetic blend.
Although driving conditions, environment and habits will dictate some variation, typically:
dino oil: 3k-4k mile oil changes or 6 months
blend: 5k-7k mile oil changes or 6 months
full syn: 8k-15k mile oil changes or 1 year
Oil analysis will tell you if your oil has retained enough of it's protective packages to go another X,000 miles but for the cost of the analysis you can change your oil.
And always use a decent oil filter.
I've ran both dino and full synthetics in cars close to and over 200k miles with 10k mile oil change frequencies. Never an issue.
If you change synthetics at anything less than 8k miles, you're wasting your money and should consider a synthetic blend.
Although driving conditions, environment and habits will dictate some variation, typically:
dino oil: 3k-4k mile oil changes or 6 months
blend: 5k-7k mile oil changes or 6 months
full syn: 8k-15k mile oil changes or 1 year
Oil analysis will tell you if your oil has retained enough of it's protective packages to go another X,000 miles but for the cost of the analysis you can change your oil.
And always use a decent oil filter.
Koz
New member
The color of the oil means nothing. Only a UOA (used oil analysis) will tell you what is the condition of the oil.
Toyota engines are well known to be gentle on oil. I've seen UOAs for dino oil (factory fill) with 10K miles on it and it was still providing safe protection. You should be able to use ANY brand of synthetic oil for 10K miles or one year. I recommend running the oil of your choice for 8K miles and then sending a sample to find out its condition and how much longer you run it. I also believe changing your oil with less then 8K (dino), 10K (synthetic) is just a waste of money. In my last 4Runner I ran the same oil (0w-30 Amsoil) for over 40K miles with a bypass system and the last UOA showed no end in sight. I do recommend using 0w oil (0w-20 or 0w-30). Up to 80% of engine wear occurs at start up. This is the time the oil takes to get to the vital areas of the engine, during start up. The lower the pour rate the better.
Koz
Toyota engines are well known to be gentle on oil. I've seen UOAs for dino oil (factory fill) with 10K miles on it and it was still providing safe protection. You should be able to use ANY brand of synthetic oil for 10K miles or one year. I recommend running the oil of your choice for 8K miles and then sending a sample to find out its condition and how much longer you run it. I also believe changing your oil with less then 8K (dino), 10K (synthetic) is just a waste of money. In my last 4Runner I ran the same oil (0w-30 Amsoil) for over 40K miles with a bypass system and the last UOA showed no end in sight. I do recommend using 0w oil (0w-20 or 0w-30). Up to 80% of engine wear occurs at start up. This is the time the oil takes to get to the vital areas of the engine, during start up. The lower the pour rate the better.
Koz
truckmike26
New member
Just use Mobil 1 5w30 and a Toyota oil filter and you'll never, ever have to think about it again.
Mobil 1 is frequently on-sale at big-name retailers so it's just about the best bang-for-the-buck synthetic on the shelf (when on-sale). I've posted about this before, but use a Toyota filter because it requires zero-thinking whether it's good or not for your Toyota engine and it's the same price as or cheaper than most aftermarket "premium" oil filters.
And just do whatever oil change intervals the owner's manual says -- mileage or time intervals -- whatever fits.
Mobil 1 is frequently on-sale at big-name retailers so it's just about the best bang-for-the-buck synthetic on the shelf (when on-sale). I've posted about this before, but use a Toyota filter because it requires zero-thinking whether it's good or not for your Toyota engine and it's the same price as or cheaper than most aftermarket "premium" oil filters.
And just do whatever oil change intervals the owner's manual says -- mileage or time intervals -- whatever fits.
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Try it next time, for now
Just use Mobil 1 5w30 and a Toyota oil filter and you'll never, ever have to think about it again.
