T4R2014
Elite Member
Not exactly in the middle east, but check out Afghanistan before the Soviet invasion.
http://http://m.imgur.com/a/LdHsL
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Syrian Refugee Crisis
- Thread starter DannyLlama
- Start date
Not exactly in the middle east, but check out Afghanistan before the Soviet invasion.
http://http://m.imgur.com/a/LdHsL
Oh no, that's not politically correct either..
I have friends in Austria, Germany, and a few other EU Countries. This video sums up the feelings of the vast majority of those Countries Citizens, and what is happening, pretty well.
<iframe width="640" height="360" src="https://www.youtube.com/embed/-BDqzmG-rH8" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>
DannyLlama
Elite Member
Knight-Errant
New member
Oh, I agree with you at the present and on the larger scale The US can send military power anywhere it wants. No question about that. That is not changing any time in the near future.
There is already some impact on the smaller scale. There are already some reports that acknowledge that US drones might be threatened by Russian anti-air in Syria. If US drones are conducting strikes against ISIS would they be left alone? Maybe. Maybe Russia would shoot them down anyway, but maybe they wouldn't since that since this helps Assad. If US drones were supporting FSA rebels against Assad would they be shot down? Maybe; I can see the Russians shooting them down. Might this impact our ability to conduct strikes against ISIS? We'll have to see, but it might.
Russia was in shambles after the Cold War, power projection wasn't something they were trying to focus on. They didn't have much of a budget for the military, or to operate their many of their ships. Lots of stuff was scrapped, mothballed, or sold to China in some cases. Trying to retain influence on satellite states, experimenting with free markets and non-communist government, trying to get their economy going, dealing with Chechnya ....they had way too many other things to think about.
Assad has never been a threat to the US. But I do think the current Russian mindset, at least with Putin at the helm, is that of the Cold War days where he wants to expand their influence and power, at least regionally. Maybe they're not supporting communist revolutionaries around the globe, but they'll take what they can get.
My other post was a long game prediction; bases and ships take a long time to be built. I do think Putin does have a long strategy in mind and that he is very opportunistic. In 15-30 years, I think there is a possibility of Russian bases in Syria and a larger Naval presence. Even though that is regional power it can have a big impact, especially if it is around oil producing states. Here is another scenario; What if 30 years from now we need to get Naval Ships in the Mediterranean to China quickly and Russia feels like they'd like to delay us by blocking the Suez, when there are bases in Syria and lots of ships in Syria?
Sure the Russians haven't been a threat for awhile, but the Soviet Union fell in 1991. For awhile things were looking pretty good, they even were part of the allies during the first Gulf war. Can you imagine something like that today? I can't.
So I agree, Russians in Syria, not a huge problem right now. But I see a plausible scenario where they might be in the distant future. This is all imaginary chess where I'm trying to look out a million moves, so in the end this analysis doesn't mean much. I'm writing a "Tom Clancy" novel so to speak; imaginary, but both possible and plausible enough to think about and be entertaining. Are these scenarios plausible? Yes. Are they possible? Yes perhaps to a certain degree but we can only wait and see what the future holds, nothing more.
I think ISIS is bad for everyone. I think that given the opportunity they'd expand as far as possible. I think if they have a place where they have safe haven, they can train and plan, and pretty soon you have people with no documents showing up in Europe claiming to be "Syrian refugees" when in fact they're ISIS sleeper agents waiting to conduct suicide attacks all over Europe. I think their actions threaten peace and stability in the Middle East and beyond. I'm not comfortable with the US (and the rest of the world for that matter) not having a serious plan to meet this threat. Ignoring ISIS and leaving them alone won't work because their ultimate plan is to destroy anything that isn't Islamic, and to destroy Western ideas, thoughts, and values. I'm not the guy whose job it is to sit around and think up the plan to deal with these guys, but I'm pretty disappointed and disconcerted that there doesn't seem to be much of a plan from any of the global leaders.
There is already some impact on the smaller scale. There are already some reports that acknowledge that US drones might be threatened by Russian anti-air in Syria. If US drones are conducting strikes against ISIS would they be left alone? Maybe. Maybe Russia would shoot them down anyway, but maybe they wouldn't since that since this helps Assad. If US drones were supporting FSA rebels against Assad would they be shot down? Maybe; I can see the Russians shooting them down. Might this impact our ability to conduct strikes against ISIS? We'll have to see, but it might.
Russia was in shambles after the Cold War, power projection wasn't something they were trying to focus on. They didn't have much of a budget for the military, or to operate their many of their ships. Lots of stuff was scrapped, mothballed, or sold to China in some cases. Trying to retain influence on satellite states, experimenting with free markets and non-communist government, trying to get their economy going, dealing with Chechnya ....they had way too many other things to think about.
Assad has never been a threat to the US. But I do think the current Russian mindset, at least with Putin at the helm, is that of the Cold War days where he wants to expand their influence and power, at least regionally. Maybe they're not supporting communist revolutionaries around the globe, but they'll take what they can get.
My other post was a long game prediction; bases and ships take a long time to be built. I do think Putin does have a long strategy in mind and that he is very opportunistic. In 15-30 years, I think there is a possibility of Russian bases in Syria and a larger Naval presence. Even though that is regional power it can have a big impact, especially if it is around oil producing states. Here is another scenario; What if 30 years from now we need to get Naval Ships in the Mediterranean to China quickly and Russia feels like they'd like to delay us by blocking the Suez, when there are bases in Syria and lots of ships in Syria?
Sure the Russians haven't been a threat for awhile, but the Soviet Union fell in 1991. For awhile things were looking pretty good, they even were part of the allies during the first Gulf war. Can you imagine something like that today? I can't.
So I agree, Russians in Syria, not a huge problem right now. But I see a plausible scenario where they might be in the distant future. This is all imaginary chess where I'm trying to look out a million moves, so in the end this analysis doesn't mean much. I'm writing a "Tom Clancy" novel so to speak; imaginary, but both possible and plausible enough to think about and be entertaining. Are these scenarios plausible? Yes. Are they possible? Yes perhaps to a certain degree but we can only wait and see what the future holds, nothing more.
I think ISIS is bad for everyone. I think that given the opportunity they'd expand as far as possible. I think if they have a place where they have safe haven, they can train and plan, and pretty soon you have people with no documents showing up in Europe claiming to be "Syrian refugees" when in fact they're ISIS sleeper agents waiting to conduct suicide attacks all over Europe. I think their actions threaten peace and stability in the Middle East and beyond. I'm not comfortable with the US (and the rest of the world for that matter) not having a serious plan to meet this threat. Ignoring ISIS and leaving them alone won't work because their ultimate plan is to destroy anything that isn't Islamic, and to destroy Western ideas, thoughts, and values. I'm not the guy whose job it is to sit around and think up the plan to deal with these guys, but I'm pretty disappointed and disconcerted that there doesn't seem to be much of a plan from any of the global leaders.
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Inferno1
New member
Having just come from Iraq assisting allied forces in that conflict trust me when I say the US does NOT need to bring those people over here to settle especially in mass numbers.
Not knocking all Arabs or Muslims since I met some very nice and great individuals but as a whole they do not fit into our way of life here and would cause issues. See England and now Germany, Hungary and Croatia for what I mean
Not knocking all Arabs or Muslims since I met some very nice and great individuals but as a whole they do not fit into our way of life here and would cause issues. See England and now Germany, Hungary and Croatia for what I mean
Thai
Elite Member
Bleeding heart liberals and the consequences: Paris shooting: Scores killed and injured after 'Kalashnikov and grenade attacks' across French capital with dozens of hostages taken - Telegraph
MtnT4R
New member
Just awful, my family just called me to turn on the news.
Amazing how they got AK-47's in a country with some of the harshest gun control policies on the planet.
Things are going to get a lot worse over there. Wonder if this will wake some people up?
Thai
Elite Member
Gun control solves everything...for the terrorists! These places are heaven for terrorists (and bad guys)...no resistance...killing spree.
R4nnerR4nner
Member
How does being a liberal have anything to do with this?
The real issue is why are they leaving and how we can get them to stay there after we have played an instrumental role in changing the power balances in the Middle East without truly understanding the religious and tribal challenges faced there. If the Arabs wanted "democracy" they would have had it by now period. In addition, I have always been a believer that these fundamental Muslim beliefs & actions are being turned a blind eye to by their own communities as certain religions preach non acceptance of outsiders and force conversion (exclusivity).....this is not limited to the Muslim religion. If we bring people here then they must be willing to assimilate and speak the common lingo and also be inclusive of my religious beliefs. We have helped to create a very financially successful current and future growth industry and in doing so will continue to lose our freedoms and privacy in the name of safety as well as our blood. We need to follow the money trails and then maybe we can make sense of why & what is happening and not just react only to the current situation. Again, we need to follow the money........
BrianSD_42
New member
I'm not sure what you mean by follow the money.
Migrants into Europe send most of their money to their families "back home" instead of spending it in the local EU economies. There are estimates that $50 Billion a year is sent out of the EU and back into Africa. This is very economically damaging.
Migrants into Europe send most of their money to their families "back home" instead of spending it in the local EU economies. There are estimates that $50 Billion a year is sent out of the EU and back into Africa. This is very economically damaging.
"Follow the money" means
who stands to gain from the destabilization of the middle east. Oil can only be traded in the green back so why can ISIS keep selling oil to fund their endeavors?
Thai
Elite Member
Not earth shattering, but it seems that I was right in my fear:
"Syrian passport was found near the body of another assailant. Greek officials said the passport holder had arrived in Europe in October along with a record flood of refugees fleeing the war-torn Middle East. The discovery immediately raised the prospect that militants may be using the same porous routes into Europe as migrants."
MtnT4R
New member
With Open Gates: The forced collective suicide of European nations
WATCH: The Anti-Migrant Video Going Viral Across Europe
WATCH: The Anti-Migrant Video Going Viral Across Europe
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Inferno1
New member
How does this come as a shock to anyone really?
BrianSD_42
New member
Remember that video about the suburbs in Belgium where authorities "have lost control" ? Well it turns out some of the attackers are from that area. With local support of course.
Paris attackers linked to Belgian suburb where the authorities have 'lost control' - Telegraph
:fish2:
Paris attackers linked to Belgian suburb where the authorities have 'lost control' - Telegraph
:fish2:
Vultradamus
New member
So the real question is, is why OP went silent on his own thread?
This attack on Paris once again shows true face of Islam. Everyone who defends Muslims saying things like "These are just the extremists blah blah blah" Don't understand Islam. These are not the "Extremists" they are just following true Islam. The so-called "Moderates" are simply not fully practicing their religion. Saying there are good Muslims who aren't terrorists, is just like saying there are KKK members who haven't lynched any African Americans, or there were some Nazi's that didn't kill any Jews. These ISIS/terrorists are simply following in Muhammad's footsteps.
So no... No Syrian Refugees for me. Lets take care of the some 50,000 homeless Veterans that fought to protect the sanctity of America.
This attack on Paris once again shows true face of Islam. Everyone who defends Muslims saying things like "These are just the extremists blah blah blah" Don't understand Islam. These are not the "Extremists" they are just following true Islam. The so-called "Moderates" are simply not fully practicing their religion. Saying there are good Muslims who aren't terrorists, is just like saying there are KKK members who haven't lynched any African Americans, or there were some Nazi's that didn't kill any Jews. These ISIS/terrorists are simply following in Muhammad's footsteps.
So no... No Syrian Refugees for me. Lets take care of the some 50,000 homeless Veterans that fought to protect the sanctity of America.
