T4R off-road questions

[MotorBug]

Hi, Just registered. This seemed like the place to post my questions about T4R off-road capability. I'm also considering an 01 to 04 Tacoma extended cab TRD 4x4 as I know they do well in the dirt. But I would rather have a T4R if it will meet my needs-- real off-road, goat trail to no trail, mud holes, water crossings, ruts, rocks (but not serious rock crawling). During my off-road runs I rarely see a 3rd gen T4R and the 2nd gens are highly modified. Mostly Jeeps then Tacomas. Never seen a 4th gen out there, but I have only been doing this a few months and I haven't gone to any large organized events.

Some of the time the way we off-road is to push until stuck. Hence winches, tow hooks, recovery straps, etc. are more important to me than chrome. There is a post here that T4Rs don't get stuck. You ain't tryin' hard enough!

I currently drive a '00 Jeep Wrangler, 5sp, 6cyl 4x4 no lift or lockers (yes, you can get them in 2WD--heresy!) The Jeep is great off-road but beats me up on the long drives to the mountains or desert and has minimal storage. As a certified senior citizen comfort is a big factor-- at least I'm still out there doing it!

The new Wranglers are nice, but the dealers all love them as they want from $6K to $10K over MSRP for a Rubicon. I probably wouldn't get one anyway as I want more room, comfort and quiet.

I'm on my 4th Toyota or Lexus passenger car and like them for all the usual reasons-- outstanding build quality and they just work. So Toyota is the only brand I'm considering for a different (non-Jeep) 4x4. The FJ just doesn't cut it, darn it. Very capable off-road, but horrible visibility out, uncomfortable, and both the interior and exterior looks are negative factors to me.

The current T4R generation looks sorta bloated and low-- approaching soccer mom status. I'd like to get a 03-06 if they are still capable off-road, but reading many of the threads here (great info and links!) it seems a 3rd gen might be the way to go if I wanted it for off-road first, standard SUV stuff second? I'm leaning toward a V-6. Is that enough muscle? No plans to tow anything. Selling the Jeep.

Whatever I get it will probably get a lift, new bumpers, upsize the tires in a year or so as I research it and find out what I really need.

A couple of specific questions on the 4x system-- is the center locking differential a "real" locker? Sounds more like a limited-slip diff. Are lockers available from the factory? Can/should a real locker be added to a vehicle with a center locking differential? I *think* I understand that the SR5 does not have the center locking diff so maybe that is the model to get if I want to add a real locker?

Is there an off-road package (like the TRD on the 4x4 Tacomas) for the current generation--skid plates, rear locker, beefed up suspension?

Well, long post, but I though it might be helpful to define what I'm looking for. Thanks for any insights or suggestions.

 

[97hb]

There is a post here that T4Rs don't get stuck. You ain't tryin' hard enough!

Some people just don't realize, even tanks get stuck from time to time.

 

[fourwd1]

... A couple of specific questions on the 4x system-- is the center locking differential a "real" locker?

No, because it's not actually a diff. It just splits the power equally between the front and rear axles. The diffs are in the axles.

Are lockers available from the factory? Can/should a real locker be added to a vehicle with a center locking differential?

Toy e-locker used to be available w/the TRD package, guess it still is, check w/Toyota and find out youself. A locker in the rear (and front) axle is always good if you do serious wheeling.

I *think* I understand that the SR5 does not have the center locking diff so maybe that is the model to get if I want to add a real locker?

Is there an off-road package (like the TRD on the 4x4 Tacomas) for the current generation--skid plates, rear locker, beefed up suspension?

Again, for the latest available info, check with Toyota yourself, they actually have a website too.

 

[MotorBug]

Re: Re: T4R off-road questions

Again, for the latest available info, check with Toyota yourself, they actually have a website too.

I had looked, found that there is a TRD locker for the Tacoma but no specific info on the T4R. The only thing I found was "X-REAS Sport Enhancement Suspension" which was not further defined. That's why I asked here about that and modifications. The salesman at a local dealership didn't have a clue.

 

[Jaebster]

Is there an off-road package (like the TRD on the 4x4 Tacomas) for the current generation--skid plates, rear locker, beefed up suspension?

TRD does not focus much on the 4Rs so there is no factory package. You'd be better off getting aftermarket stuff. If you're gonna upgrade the suspension, don't bother getting a 4R with the X-reas suspension (standard in the Sport Edition) as you're gonna have to rip it out to get a coil lift. The only lift available for the X-reas is a spacer lift.

For a 4th Gen off-roader,, check this one out... http://www.chaosedition.com/
Also, check out http://www.ultimateyota.com/ and http://www.yotatech.com/. You may be able to get more answers there.

 

[Even Steven]

Re: Re: T4R off-road questions

No, because it's not actually a diff. It just splits the power equally between the front and rear axles. The diffs are in the axles.



.

What? Of course it's a diff (differential). And it is a true locker in that when locked, it locks the front and rear driveshafts to split power between the front and rear axles.

When most people talk about lockers, they are talking about a locker on the rear axle that locks the rear axle shafts together, sending power equally to each wheel. Well, that's the same thing that the locking center differential accomplishes, only instead of locking each axle shaft together, it locks the front/rear driveshafts together. Therefore, it is a true locker.

 

[Even Steven]

Are lockers available from the factory? Can/should a real locker be added to a vehicle with a center locking differential?



The FJ has an available locker on the rear as well as a locking center diff. Some 4Runners guys also choose to go with an aftermarket locker on the rear, but for most, the locking center diff plus ATRAC on all four wheels does the trick. When driven properly, the ATRAC acts as a sort of electronic locker in that it will transfer power from side to side to keep the 4Runner moving.

I *think* I understand that the SR5 does not have the center locking diff so maybe that is the model to get if I want to add a real locker?



All '03 and newer 4Runners have the same exact 4wd system, regardless of the trim level. Yes, the SR5 has a center locking differential.



[/B]

 

[4rnr4me]

I only have a 2wd so i cant say a whole lot about the offroading capabilities, but I have a 3rd gen and its definitely a pretty comfortable ride. My truck, being a 99, is VERY quiet at idle, except for the sound of my new Vortex muffler

They don't really have a TRD package...it would be best to purchase your own lift, suspension, and some nice aftermarket bumpers, etc.

The v-6 should pack enough power for pretty much everything, I would think...Its a pretty strong engine, and if you wanted, you could always add a little more power with some mods/upgrades...

I only have a 2wd, but i wanna get a 4x4 so im doing some research as well...

Hope this helps!

Nick

 

[fourwd1]

Re: Re: Re: T4R off-road questions

... When people that know what they're talking talk about lockers, they are talking about a locker on the front or rear axle that locks the axle shafts together, sending power equally to each wheel...

Fixed that for ya.

 

[Even Steven]

Re: Re: Re: Re: T4R off-road questions

Fixed that for ya.

If you're going to quote me, then don't change my words.

Didn't you learn anything in English class?

 

[Mr. Dabadina]

I'm pretty sure up to 2000 the 4runner had an electronically locked (elocker) rear diff as an option from the factory. It is a selectable locking rear diff (like ARB). Since the locker is electronic there is no worry about an air hose leaking(like ARB) and making it unable to perform. You can also find a 4runner with an elocker and a 5-speed if you looked hard enough. From the factory the rear elocker can only be engaged in 4lo. But this can be moded to run in both 4hi and 4lo. I would look over on yotatech.com for the write up on how to modify it. 2001 and 2002 Toyota went to the center diff lock.

CLICK HERE for a very good write up on the differences between the year models of the 3rd gen 4runner.

Also YOTATECH has a lot more 3rd gen off road info on their site.

Here are quotes from somone asking about 3rd gen offroad.

"The best stock (3rd Gen) 4Runner... in my humble opinion - taking comfort, MPG, and capability into account would be... a 2000 Limited 4x4 w/ the factory e-locker and the multi-mode t-case (push button AWD, selectable 4HI w/ open center diff, 4HI w/ locked center diff, 4LO w/ locked center diff) and of course the ability to lock the rear."

"'99-'00 Limiteds are the best combo for on road and off road performance since they have the mulit mode auto and an available rear locker. I'm very happy with mine but I wish I had a 5 speed. '99+ did get the much improved ergonomics and those were a deciding factor on going to a '99 from my '97."

 

[MotorBug]

Thanks to everyone for the information.

I am focusing on the current generation 4Runner, not a Sport model because of the X-REAS suspension which is an impediment to a lift.

In regard to the 4x4 system here is my understanding:

4th gen 4x4 models all have a center differential that locks front and rear axles together, but not the wheels on each axle.

The center differential can be locked in both 4H and 4L.

There is neither a front nor rear locker available from the factory.

Both axles are limited-slip from the factory.
------------------------------

I found the Toyota web site isn't very useful for technical stuff and neither was the local dealership.

I'm going to the Motor Trend annual car show next week in San Jose and hope to kick tires on several 4x4s and find someone who knows a gear from chrome.

Thanks again.

 

[Even Steven]

Both axles are limited-slip from the factory.

I believe both axles are open from the factory. But ATRAC makes them function like limited slip....or actually better than a limited slip set up.

 

[GatorGreg]

While the 4th gen T4R is great, based on the type and regularity of the wheeling you plan to do I would think you'd be much happier with an FJ. Get it with the optional rear locker and you'll be pretty much unstoppable and have much better approach/departure angles to boot. But if your deadset against the FJ and have to have a T4R then if it were me I'd get a '99 or '00 SE with the optional rear locker. Somewhat rare but they are out there if you look. The last time I went off-roading with some folks in 3rd gens I was jealous cuz they were able to go down some trails that there was no way I was gonna take my GX cuz it's so wide, I would have been the same way in a 4th gen T4R. The 3rd gens are very skinny and with the rear locker there aren't many SUVs out there that could keep up. Coming from a Wrangler I don't think you'd be happy with the size of a 4th gen off-road. And compared to a Wrangler, any 3rd gen will feel like a limo driving down the highway

 

[MotorBug]

I believe both axles are open from the factory. But ATRAC makes them function like limited slip....or actually better than a limited slip set up.

Yes, I mistakenly assumed that ATRAC is limited-slip. If you can explain what it really is I'd appreciate that. Didn't find a good explanation of how it works.

Originally posted by GatorGreg While the 4th gen T4R is great, based on the type and regularity of the wheeling you plan to do I would think you'd be much happier with an FJ. Get it with the optional rear locker and you'll be pretty much unstoppable and have much better approach/departure angles to boot.

I guess I really should take another look. One guy in our group has one so hopefully I can get a ride with him fairly soon.

Coming from a Wrangler I don't think you'd be happy with the size of a 4th gen off-road. And compared to a Wrangler, any 3rd gen will feel like a limo driving down the highway

Two very good points.

 

[JB.]

Yes, I mistakenly assumed that ATRAC is limited-slip. ...explain what it really is I'd appreciate that. Didn't find a good explanation of how it works.

The effect is similar to limited slip (4runner ATRAC is at least as good), the operation quite different.
On an axle with an open differential it's a computer controlled method of applying brakes to a wheel that breaks traction and starts to spin faster than the opposite wheel. It thus puts power to the non-spinning wheel. The 4th gen 4runner brakes are robust and contribute to the system working very well and hardly ever shutting down due to over heating. In a rare case like that, the recovery time is very quick.

 

[Falls]

The effect is similar to limited slip (4runner ATRAC is at least as good), the operation quite different.
On an axle with an open differential it's a computer controlled method of applying brakes to a wheel that breaks traction and starts to spin faster than the opposite wheel. It thus puts power to the non-spinning wheel. The 4th gen 4runner brakes are robust and contribute to the system working very well and hardly ever shutting down due to over heating. In a rare case like that, the recovery time is very quick.

Good explanation. The nice thing with the ATRAC is that when it kicks in its like having a true 4wd and you can get all 4 wheels driving/spinning. Its fantastic off road. You can trick out a 4th gen very nicely for off road expedition's and traveling as well. Its a win win vehicle as far as I'm concerned.